Score the Offseason!

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, chw42 said:

Right now, it's a C for me.

If they get Manaea without giving up a ton, easily a B.

Yup, my thoughts exactly.

[Two-Gun Pete]

For me, its still an "F."

Yes, they got rid of a guy they never should have gotten in the first place, who didn't want to be here this year, and who didn't really have a role with Hendriks here.

And, congrats to RH for getting something for Kimbrel. But, I think its fair to be dubious about an oft-injured, 34 year old LFer, who just might have had a fortunate 2021. (In terms of his ability to continue to kick Father Time's ass, and to play RF.)

Its still an "F," but instead of being like a ~10% result on a test, its a ~40% score on a test. IOW, its still "failing," but a higher score.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[CentralChamps21]

Right now it's a C+ because the biggest hole was left by Rodon and still hasn't been filled. Getting Manaea can raise that C+ to anywhere from B- to A- depending on what is given up to get him.

[ShoeLessRob]

I’m sticking to D. still don’t like the allocation of money to the bullpen, the bum pitcher is going to be a waste of 3 mil when he’s DFA, Harrison isn’t an upgrade, and although I joke around about Leury, they have a utility player a pretty decent contract and TLR can’t help himself and will run him out there everyday. I am glad they got rid of Kimbrel and addressed the OF depth, but they still have holes at backup catcher and SP. 

[FoxForce2]

Anyone heard something about Kelly's status?

Edited April 2, 2022 by FoxForce2

[ChiSox59]

3 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Right now it's a C+ because the biggest hole was left by Rodon and still hasn't been filled. Getting Manaea can raise that C+ to anywhere from B- to A- depending on what is given up to get him.

Rodon hardly even pitched the 2nd half the season and we have a replacement in Kopech who very well may be significantly better than Rodon already, albeit with workload constraints. Not that Rodon didn’t have those same constraints. Some people vastly overrate Rodon around here. If dude makes 40 starts in two years for SF I’d be shocked. He’s proven himself unreliable time and time again.  

[CentralChamps21]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Rodon hardly even pitched the 2nd half the season and we have a replacement in Kopech who very well may be significantly better than Rodon already, albeit with workload constraints. Not that Rodon didn’t have those same constraints. Some people vastly overrate Rodon around here. If dude makes 40 starts in two years for SF I’d be shocked. He’s proven himself unreliable time and time again.  

Wasn't suggesting that 2022 Rodon could replace 2021 Rodon, but somebody needs to. Kopech helps, but you still have Keuchel, so maybe I should have said it's a C+ until they get someone to replace Keuchel. No matter how you look at it, it's a C+ if the starting rotation stays as is.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, FoxForce2 said:

Anyone heard something about Kelly's status?

Out at least until the beginning of May. Nerve inflammation.

[Tnetennba]

Bumping my vote up to a D might have been premature if Lynn is out for any length of time.  The lack of depth is showing before we even get to Opening Day…

[A-Train to 35th]

22 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

For me, its still an "F."

Yes, they got rid of a guy they never should have gotten in the first place, who didn't want to be here this year, and who didn't really have a role with Hendriks here.

And, congrats to RH for getting something for Kimbrel. But, I think its fair to be dubious about an oft-injured, 34 year old LFer, who just might have had a fortunate 2021. (In terms of his ability to continue to kick Father Time's ass, and to play RF.)

Its still an "F," but instead of being like a ~10% result on a test, its a ~40% score on a test. IOW, its still "failing," but a higher score.

And what exactly in your minds eye would make it an "A", signing Semien (7 years $175 mil) and Conforto (turned down a 100 million) or some other free agent to a multi-year deal.  It's not always about signing the best players to the biggest contracts.  Look to The Padres who were willing to eat 30 millions of dollars just to shed themselves of Eric Hosmer's contract recently. Same thing will happen down the road when they're saddled with Machado's contract.  My prediction is the Sox have a better chance of winning this year and beyond than the Padres.  

The Sox signed two of the top RP's in the free agent market, and rid our team of Kimbrel for Pollack which in itself is worth at least a "C" grade.

I gave them a "B"  based on the RP signings, getting rid of Kimbrel for a AJ, and preserving the future of our team by not spending foolishly on the two free agents everyone wanted on this team which would have raised our payroll by 40 million.

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

And what exactly in your minds eye would make it an "A", signing Semien (7 years $175 mil) and Conforto (turned down a 100 million) or some other free agent to a multi-year deal.  It's not always about signing the best players to the biggest contracts.  Look to The Padres who were willing to eat 30 millions of dollars just to shed themselves of Eric Hosmer's contract recently. Same thing will happen down the road when they're saddled with Machado's contract.  My prediction is the Sox have a better chance of winning this year and beyond than the Padres.  

The Sox signed two of the top RP's in the free agent market, and rid our team of Kimbrel for Pollack which in itself is worth at least a "C" grade.

I gave them a "B"  based on the RP signings, getting rid of Kimbrel for a AJ, and preserving the future of our team by not spending foolishly on the two free agents everyone wanted on this team which would have raised our payroll by 40 million.

If we signed Pollock as a free agent at 34 to the contract he’s currently on…would you consider that a good move compared to all the  other FA outfielders that were out there?

That’s the key question…not “getting out” of the Kimbrel deal, because we created that situation, it was Hahn’s own doing.

 

You can’t compare the Padres to Sox without taking into account the Giants and especially the Dodgers, who have been in the postseason 9 consecutive years now.  We don’t have competition closely resembling that.  Yet the Twins signed two deals and the Tigers one in the offseason eclipsing the Grandal contract.

The Padres were 67-49 last year in mid August.  No doubt a massive collapse…but they went 4-18 from that period on against LA, San Francisco and the World Champion Braves.  8-16 versus the rest of the schedule was BAD, but it’s baseball.  Preller didn’t add pitching (Arrieta and Velasquez) and added Frazier, which impacted everyone’s playing time and blew up the clubhouse chemistry simultaneously…along with all the Hosmer rumors, which they still haven’t gotten past, quite obviously. 

So we shall see with SD.  Tatis being out opens up a spot for CJ Abrams, a consensus Top 5 prospect…and someone will eventually give up a haul for Paddack if Manaea and Montas are really fetching the prospect packages that are now rumored.  Just wait until the Mets are under .500 at the end of April with Scherzer and deGrom on the shelf.

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by caulfield12

[A-Train to 35th]

31 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

If we signed Pollock as a free agent at 34 to the contract he’s currently on…would you consider that a good move compared to all the  other FA outfielders that were out there?

That’s the key question…not “getting out” of the Kimbrel deal, because we created that situation, it was Hahn’s own doing.

 

You can’t compare the Padres to Sox without taking into account the Giants and especially the Dodgers, who have been in the postseason 9 consecutive years now.  We don’t have competition closely resembling that.  Yet the Twins signed two deals and the Tigers one in the offseason eclipsing the Grandal contract.

The Padres were 67-49 last year in mid August.  No doubt a massive collapse…but they went 4-18 from that period on against LA, San Francisco and the World Champion Braves.  8-16 versus the rest of the schedule was BAD, but it’s baseball.  Preller didn’t add pitching (Arrieta and Velasquez) and added Frazier, which impacted everyone’s playing time and blew up the clubhouse chemistry simultaneously…along with all the Hosmer rumors, which they still haven’t gotten past, quite obviously. 

So we shall see with SD.  Tatis being out opens up a spot for CJ Abrams, a consensus Top 5 prospect…and someone will eventually give up a haul for Paddack if Manaea and Montas are really fetching the prospect packages that are now rumored.  Just wait until the Mets are under .500 at the end of April with Scherzer and deGrom on the shelf.

 

Aj Signed a 5 year 60 million dollar contract (avg. 12 million a year) at 31 years old.  Would I sign him at age 34 for more than 1 year with team an option, YES at 12 million.

The Dodgers and Giant's have larger revenue steams and attendance at games than the Sox so you can't compare the three teams. I'd rather be in the Sox position than the Twin's.

Sounds like you'd rather cheer on the Padre's and you expect them to win before The Chicago White Sox....good luck with that.

And finally, the Met's who spent money on multiple free agents, signing them to long term contracts and they'll be lucky to finish in third place. No Thanks I'll take my White Sox chances the next five years over the Met's.

Edited April 3, 2022 by A-Train to 35th

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Aj Signed a 5 year 60 million dollar contract (avg. 12 million a year) at 31 years old.  Would I sign him at age 34 for more than 1 year with team an option, YES at 12 million.

The Dodgers and Giant's have larger revenue steams and attendance at games than the Sox so you can't compare the three teams. I'd rather be in the Sox position than the Twin's.

Sounds like you'd rather cheer on the Padre's and you expect them to win before The Chicago White Sox....good luck with that.

And finally, the Met's who spent money on multiple free agents, signing them to long term contracts and they'll be lucky to finish in third place. No Thanks I'll take my White Sox chances the next five years over the Met's.

Not at all...but I believe that both teams have had to develop the best strategies for their divisions.  It's apples or oranges, in many ways.

Finally, I will always be a White Sox fan first, but that doesn't mean I have to blindly agree with the owner, GM or manager.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

On 4/2/2022 at 9:36 AM, Two-Gun Pete said:

For me, its still an "F."

Yes, they got rid of a guy they never should have gotten in the first place, who didn't want to be here this year, and who didn't really have a role with Hendriks here.

And, congrats to RH for getting something for Kimbrel. But, I think its fair to be dubious about an oft-injured, 34 year old LFer, who just might have had a fortunate 2021. (In terms of his ability to continue to kick Father Time's ass, and to play RF.)

Its still an "F," but instead of being like a ~10% result on a test, its a ~40% score on a test. IOW, its still "failing," but a higher score.

Did pollock have a fortunate 2020 as well? 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

20 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Rodon hardly even pitched the 2nd half the season and we have a replacement in Kopech who very well may be significantly better than Rodon already, albeit with workload constraints. Not that Rodon didn’t have those same constraints. Some people vastly overrate Rodon around here. If dude makes 40 starts in two years for SF I’d be shocked. He’s proven himself unreliable time and time again.  

I'm not sure how kopech may be significantly better already.

[caulfield12]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Did pollock have a fortunate 2020 as well? 

Harrison certainly did.  Keuchel in 2020.  Lynn in 2021.

All that said, it's going to be exceedingly difficult for the White Sox not to win the AL Central in 2022...like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm not sure how kopech may be significantly better already.

When he puts up a 5 fWAR for a full season, then we can have that discussion.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, A-Train to 35th said:

And what exactly in your minds eye would make it an "A", signing Semien (7 years $175 mil) and Conforto (turned down a 100 million) or some other free agent to a multi-year deal.  It's not always about signing the best players to the biggest contracts. 

Ok, I didn't see a question here, but you raise a fair point:

What would be an "A grade" for the offseason?

To me, I would grade an "A" as follows:

1. Closed most obvious roster holes for the current season.

2. Improved roster or financial flexibility for future seasons.

3. Extended core pieces at reasonable prices.

4. Improve the coaching staff.

5. Made all the correct choices WRT QOs/options/arb cases

6. Improved overall roster depth and versatility.

IOW, made the talent level and coaching staff BETTER.

 

Just the fact that they shit their pants on #5, and made the team worse is a failure for this FO. Now, looking at Lynn's injury, do you still think they made the right choice between Rodon and Kimbrel?

 

A "C grade" would have at least MAINTAINED the same relative talent level. I dont see this as the case.

A "F grade" is that they've made the team worse and more expensive.

19 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Did pollock have a fortunate 2020 as well? 

Dude, quit belaboring this point. We'll see how an old NL guy with an injury history does with us. We've seen old NL types shit their pants here before.

I get that you're super-stoked about this move, and thats cool. I'm "meh" about it, for reasons we've already discussed.

[Tnetennba]

Manaea to the Padres for a mediocre package.  Not beating that downgrades my vote back to an F.  

[A-Train to 35th]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Not at all...but I believe that both teams have had to develop the best strategies for their divisions.  It's apples or oranges, in many ways.

Finally, I will always be a White Sox fan first, but that doesn't mean I have to blindly agree with the owner, GM or manager.

I agree with " I will always be a White Sox fan first, but that doesn't mean I have to blindly agree with the owner, GM or manager"

[Unknown]

D+

[ShoeLessRob]

11 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Manaea to the Padres for a mediocre package.  Not beating that downgrades my vote back to an F.  

Ditto. 

[CentralChamps21]

Despite the glaring hole in the rotation that wasn't fixed, I can't give this offseason worse than a C.

Bullpen: Kimbrel jettisoned, Graveman and Kelly added. Lopez resurrected. This bullpen is better than last year and last year was really good

RF: Pollock is a huge, massive upgrade over last year

2B: Harrison will be better than Cesar, and with the OF shored up, Leury can be strictly an infielder and can help here more.

C : McGuire is a huge upgrade over Collins/Zavala, at least defensively

Not improving the starting pitching baffles me. This team isn't getting a playoff bye unless Giolito/Cease/Kopech are all extraordinarily healthy and Keuchel is remarkably better than last year.

[bmags]

56 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Despite the glaring hole in the rotation that wasn't fixed, I can't give this offseason worse than a C.

Bullpen: Kimbrel jettisoned, Graveman and Kelly added. Lopez resurrected. This bullpen is better than last year and last year was really good

RF: Pollock is a huge, massive upgrade over last year

2B: Harrison will be better than Cesar, and with the OF shored up, Leury can be strictly an infielder and can help here more.

C : McGuire is a huge upgrade over Collins/Zavala, at least defensively

Not improving the starting pitching baffles me. This team isn't getting a playoff bye unless Giolito/Cease/Kopech are all extraordinarily healthy and Keuchel is remarkably better than last year.

I have no problem saying McGuire is interchangeable offensively too. Collins was useless in the second half and Zevala had a miracle game but is a nothing. 
 

This guy is an actual strong late game replacement. But long term I’m still pro Perez. My belief is the Sox don’t know how to scout catchers and he’s better than they are grading him.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Despite the glaring hole in the rotation that wasn't fixed, I can't give this offseason worse than a C.

Bullpen: Kimbrel jettisoned, Graveman and Kelly added. Lopez resurrected. This bullpen is better than last year and last year was really good

RF: Pollock is a huge, massive upgrade over last year

2B: Harrison will be better than Cesar, and with the OF shored up, Leury can be strictly an infielder and can help here more.

C : McGuire is a huge upgrade over Collins/Zavala, at least defensively

Not improving the starting pitching baffles me. This team isn't getting a playoff bye unless Giolito/Cease/Kopech are all extraordinarily healthy and Keuchel is remarkably better than last year.

I have it as a C+ after the McGuire trade.  The positional side is in great shape with tons of depth throughout including Burger, Gonzalez, & Haseley at AAA.

Not addressing the rotation prevents it from being any higher though.  Hahn is putting a ton of faith in Keuchel rebounding and Lopez & Velasquez to be quality depth options.  It could all unravel very quickly with some injury bad luck, which is unfortunate since there were quality starters available at reasonable prices in free agency.