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You don't let the guy who couldn't construct a roster, before and after a rebuild, do it all over again.  Just no.  Hahn has to go, he is awful at his job.  Until that happens, you can't possibly think about retooling anything.

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9 minutes ago, soulfly said:

You don't let the guy who couldn't construct a roster, before and after a rebuild, do it all over again.  Just no.  Hahn has to go, he is awful at his job.  Until that happens, you can't possibly think about retooling anything.

Quite obviously Tony LaRussa is skilled enough to oversee roster construction and trades while also managing the ballclub on the field anyway.

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1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

That’s not true really. They could trade guys like Giolito and Hendriks now, get several quality young players for them, and then sign free agents this offseason to replace them. That is expecting the Sox to operate intelligently though so it won’t happen.

Where we disagree is whether or not players like Giolito or Hendriks have much value in trade. The only players that the Sox have that other teams would want are Abreu, Cease, Kopech, Vaughn, Anderson and Robert. 

Aside from maybe Abreu, those are the players you don't want to trade. 

The other guys are just salary dumps at worst or would get you a couple C prospects at best. 

 

 

Just look at Giolito right now. Unless you think he can get his velocity back to 2019-20 levels, he's a back end starter. 

Hendriks is very expensive and is probably untradable because of his contract structure and injury concerns. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Where we disagree is whether or not players like Giolito or Hendriks have much value in trade. The only players that the Sox have that other teams would want are Abreu, Cease, Kopech, Vaughn, Anderson and Robert. 

Aside from maybe Abreu, those are the players you don't want to trade. 

The other guys are just salary dumps at worst or would get you a couple C prospects at best. 

 

 

Just look at Giolito right now. Unless you think he can get his velocity back to 2019-20 levels, he's a back end starter. 

Hendriks is very expensive and is probably untradable because of his contract structure and injury concerns. 

I completely disagree. Hendriks would become one of the most sought after relievers available and we all know teams always need more relievers, especially elite ones. As for Giolito, he still has value too despite his recent struggles. The Sox could probably get a similar package for him that the twins got for Berrios last year.

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12 minutes ago, soulfly said:

You don't let the guy who couldn't construct a roster, before and after a rebuild, do it all over again.  Just no.  Hahn has to go, he is awful at his job.  Until that happens, you can't possibly think about retooling anything.

 I agree with this entirely.  With that said, Hahn isn't getting fired by the deadline.  And this team, depending on how their next 20 games goes, should be trading players.  And not just Pollock and Cueto.  They should be exploring trades for Giolito, Lynn (though honestly I'd trade 1 of them not both) Hendriks, Abreu and maybe even TA.  If it were me, I'd look to trade Pollock, Cueto, Giolito, Hendriks and Abreu (who would hurt the most honestly, but you can give him a chance to win too.   You would have some of the best assets on the market.   

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7 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I completely disagree. Hendriks would become one of the most sought after relievers available and we all know teams always need more relievers, especially elite ones. As for Giolito, he still has value too despite his recent struggles. The Sox could probably get a similar package for him that the twins got for Berrios last year.

Anyone doing any bit of scouting wouldn't give up much for Giolito. He's not the same pitcher he was from 2019-2021, it's fairly clear. 

Sad too, because I root for the guy. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Anyone doing any bit of scouting wouldn't give up much for Giolito. He's not the same pitcher he was from 2019-2021, it's fairly clear. 

Sad too, because I root for the guy. 

Gio looked pretty good last night.  Its been a rough 4-5 weeks for him, but if Sox made him available, teams would be lining up. 

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11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Gio looked pretty good last night.  Its been a rough 4-5 weeks for him, but if Sox made him available, teams would be lining up. 

That defense behind him cost him all three of his runs.  He did well against a really good offense last night.

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4 hours ago, bmags said:

Very against Hahn being able to retool. He has zero talent to scout major leaguers. Will always fall in love with players who are older because they are cheaper, and after ten years he’s still Charlie Brown lining up for that football.

Maybe a fourth degree would help him learn.

Yep. Don't want Hahn making another decision on behalf of the White Sox beyond the decision to resign, which I do not anticipate.

Teams are no longer giving up top talent for rentals. Hahn is the fish at any GM 2022 poker table.

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5 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm actually ok moving anyone not named Vaughn/Robert, including Anderson. 

They're right back where they were in 2016. 

I'm ok with a rebuild too and moving anyone, but add Cease and Kopech to that untouchable list of Vaughn, Robert and Anderson!. 

The bottom line is, we are not going to win with this assembled roster. The rebuild went horribly wrong six years and counting into it! 

As the old adage goes, if it's not broke, don't fix it! I'm here to tell you: it's totally broke and needs a major fix!

Plus we need to unload all the deadweight players and restock our farm system with young future prospects, as it is broken too!

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21 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I'm ok with a rebuild too and moving anyone, but add Cease and Kopech to that untouchable list of Vaughn, Robert and Anderson!. 

The bottom line is, we are not going to win with this assembled roster. The rebuild went horribly wrong six years and counting into it! 

As the old adage goes, if it's not broke, don't fix it! I'm here to tell you: it's totally broke and needs a major fix!

Plus we need to unload all the deadweight players and restock our farm system with young future prospects, as it is broken too!

Cease and Kopech won't be re-signed. No reason to keep them around unless they're doing a re-tool, and the only way to do that is to dump salary and dig into FA. 

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34 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I'm ok with a rebuild too and moving anyone, but add Cease and Kopech to that untouchable list of Vaughn, Robert and Anderson!. 

The bottom line is, we are not going to win with this assembled roster. The rebuild went horribly wrong six years and counting into it! 

As the old adage goes, if it's not broke, don't fix it! I'm here to tell you: it's totally broke and needs a major fix!

Plus we need to unload all the deadweight players and restock our farm system with young future prospects, as it is broken too!

Vaughn shouldn’t be untouchable IMO. Use him to bring in controllable player(s) that provide other tools.

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Cease and Kopech won't be re-signed. No reason to keep them around unless they're doing a re-tool, and the only way to do that is to dump salary and dig into FA. 

They are too young and have too much upside, to not resign both of them. Getting rid of Cease would be a monumental mistake, based on how healthy and in great pitching shape he keeps himself in. Cease is only 26 years old and isn't a FA until 2026 and Kopech in 2030. There is plenty of time before they have to worry about getting value for them in trades. 

If you are dumping just about everyone else hypothetically, except for Anderson, Vaughn Robert, Cease and Kopech, then they can afford to pay them. 

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1 minute ago, The Kids Can Play said:

They are too young and have too much upside, to not resign both of them. Getting rid of Cease would be a monumental mistake, based on how healthy and in great pitching shape he keeps himself in. Cease is only 26 years old and isn't a FA until 2026 and Kopech in 2030. There is plenty of time before they have to worry about getting value for them in trades. 

If you are dumping just about everyone else hypothetically, except for Anderson, Vaughn Robert, Cease and Kopech, then they can afford to pay them. 

I have one name for you about Cease: Scott Boras. Boras guys go to FA. It is what it is. 

Maaaaybe they can re-sign Kopech but he's a long shot as well. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I have one name for you about Cease: Scott Boras. Boras guys go to FA. It is what it is. 

Maaaaybe they can re-sign Kopech but he's a long shot as well. 

Agreed Boras is a problem, but we don't have to worry about that with Cease until 2026. He can at least help us during a retool for three years. Then maybe he loves it enough here that Cease tells Boras to make it happen with the Sox. Greg Maddux did the same thing with Boras when he signed his last big contract with the Braves. Maddux didn't want go to another team when he clearly could have gone anywhere. Not all players are greedy for the money. Boras is brutally aggressive and ruthless, but he doesn't make the decisions for the players. Plus if Cease still keeps getting better, which has been his path so far each year, then the prospects we can get back in a few years, will be way more plentiful than right now. As far as Kopech goes, again we have until 2030 so plenty of time to see if he will even be worth resigning.

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2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Quite obviously Tony LaRussa is skilled enough to oversee roster construction and trades while also managing the ballclub on the field anyway.

Yep and if he needs any assistance, he can always reach out to Kenny Williams or his buddy Jerry!

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6 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Agreed Boras is a problem, but we don't have to worry about that with Cease until 2026. He can at least help us during a retool for three years. Then maybe he loves it enough here that Cease tells Boras to make it happen with the Sox. Greg Maddux did the same thing with Boras when he signed his last big contract with the Braves. Maddux didn't want go to another team when he clearly could have gone anywhere. Not all players are greedy for the money. Boras is brutally aggressive and ruthless, but he doesn't make the decisions for the players. Plus if Cease still keeps getting better, which has been his path so far each year, then the prospects we can get back in a few years, will be way more plentiful than right now. As far as Kopech goes, again we have until 2030 so plenty of time to see if he will even be worth resigning.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/michael-kopech-17709/
You mean we have him for three more seasons…end of 2025.  Where are you getting 2030?

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31 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Agreed Boras is a problem, but we don't have to worry about that with Cease until 2026. He can at least help us during a retool for three years. Then maybe he loves it enough here that Cease tells Boras to make it happen with the Sox. Greg Maddux did the same thing with Boras when he signed his last big contract with the Braves. Maddux didn't want go to another team when he clearly could have gone anywhere. Not all players are greedy for the money. Boras is brutally aggressive and ruthless, but he doesn't make the decisions for the players. Plus if Cease still keeps getting better, which has been his path so far each year, then the prospects we can get back in a few years, will be way more plentiful than right now. As far as Kopech goes, again we have until 2030 so plenty of time to see if he will even be worth resigning.

2030? Believe Kopech is an arb 1 next season (same as Cease) so he has 3 seasons of control after this 1 because the Sox needlessly called him up in 2019 and then he got hurt and burned 20% of his service time. Now that was a dumb fucking move.

But we shouldn’t be worried about Kopech and Cease control. They’re here awhile. Let Parkman worry about silly things like that. Neither are going anywhere.  

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34 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Agreed Boras is a problem, but we don't have to worry about that with Cease until 2026. He can at least help us during a retool for three years. Then maybe he loves it enough here that Cease tells Boras to make it happen with the Sox. Greg Maddux did the same thing with Boras when he signed his last big contract with the Braves. Maddux didn't want go to another team when he clearly could have gone anywhere. Not all players are greedy for the money. Boras is brutally aggressive and ruthless, but he doesn't make the decisions for the players. Plus if Cease still keeps getting better, which has been his path so far each year, then the prospects we can get back in a few years, will be way more plentiful than right now. As far as Kopech goes, again we have until 2030 so plenty of time to see if he will even be worth resigning.

Both Kopech and Cease are FA in the 25-26 winter. 

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If this team doesn't make the playoffs or make a deep run in the playoffs, a retool should be the way to go.  

I think the Sox FO should listen on everyone although the following guys I don't see going anywhere nor should they (TA, Kopech, Cease, Robert and Vaughn).

I do however think they should listen on Giolito, Hendriks, Eloy and Moncada.  

If Giolito isn't interested in signing an extension or staying in Chicago long term then the Sox owe it to themselves and the fans to see what he would fetch in a trade.  Doesn't mean they have to trade him and I don't think anyone would be mad with him on the 2023 Opening Day roster but it wouldn't hurt to listen to offers.  Same with the others.  

 

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31 minutes ago, dpd9189 said:

If this team doesn't make the playoffs or make a deep run in the playoffs, a retool should be the way to go.  

I think the Sox FO should listen on everyone although the following guys I don't see going anywhere nor should they (TA, Kopech, Cease, Robert and Vaughn).

I do however think they should listen on Giolito, Hendriks, Eloy and Moncada.  

If Giolito isn't interested in signing an extension or staying in Chicago long term then the Sox owe it to themselves and the fans to see what he would fetch in a trade.  Doesn't mean they have to trade him and I don't think anyone would be mad with him on the 2023 Opening Day roster but it wouldn't hurt to listen to offers.  Same with the others.  

 

Eloy can’t even hit in AAA.  Hard to imagine any teams outside of Top 6-8 payroll ones that could assume that contract risk for whatever remaining upside he has offensively.

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