JR

[The Beast]

45 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

 

18 fucking million dollars. We could have a draft pick or this guy in our rotation.  This was a dumb cheap stupid decision. Thanks JR.

 

Still waiting to see if the people who said, we will see if he lasts through a whole season of work and remains good were right about him and the move not to retain him. I bet they are wrong.

[The Beast]

On 7/8/2022 at 1:02 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

Gar/Pax sucked, but at least they left with a winning record and playoff successes.

Hahn will likely have neither over his decade (2013-2022). Tony will likely have no playoff success and at the rate the team is playing, may not even finish his White Sox career over .500 (He finishes under .500 if the Sox go 71-91, the next two seasons).

Cub fans bailed on the team after the trades last season, drawing 20-24K most games (their lowest in years, if not decades), but are up to 32.6K this season.

The Sox are down 17.7% vs. last year's unrestricted attendance numbers (28,367 vs. 23,370), and this is due to poor performance of the team, manager and FO.

• Sox 2021 Attendance - COVID restrictions (April-June 16): 453,877 or 12,267 average over 37 dates (includes 2 single attendance DHs).
• Sox 2021 Attendance - No COVID restrictions (June 25-Oct 3): 1,134,676 or 28,367 average over 40 dates (1 DH, excludes Iowa game).
• Sox 2022 Attendance 972,943 or 23,370 over 41 dates (No Home DHs).
• Sox 2019 Attendance 1,629,636 or 21,442 over 76 dates while Tanking.

The Sox are on pace to draw 1,892,970, though I expect that to drop to the 1.7M-1.8M range if they drop out of contention. It could increase if the Sox are somehow able to turn things around over the next few weeks and sustain winning through the rest of the season.

Jerry spent $200M this offseason based on expectations of higher attendance than the unrestricted 28,367 average of last year. If the Sox finish with 18-20% lower attendance this season, Jerry will not sustain another $200M payroll for 2023, and will ask Hahn to sell off pieces to get to the budget number based on projected 2023 revenue.

Does anyone else think they’ll slash payroll next year?

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

 

18 fucking million dollars. We could have a draft pick or this guy in our rotation.  This was a dumb cheap stupid decision. Thanks JR.

 

That's on Hahn, Hommie. Hahn decided to double down on Craig Kimbrel with the money, and turned that into a 5th LF/DH type, with BS of him playing RF after never having done so over his first decade in MLB.

"Championship Piece" my ass.

https://www.mlb.com/news/aj-pollock-traded-to-white-sox

White Sox add championship piece, acquire Pollock for Kimbrel

Quote

“Obviously, AJ has the ability to help us in right field."

- Rick Hahn

GFY you con-artist.

[oldsox]

6 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

That's on Hahn, Hommie. Hahn decided to double down on Craig Kimbrel with the money, and turned that into a 5th LF/DH type, with BS of him playing RF after never having done so over his first decade in MLB.

"Championship Piece" my ass.

https://www.mlb.com/news/aj-pollock-traded-to-white-sox

White Sox add championship piece, acquire Pollock for Kimbrel

GFY you con-artist.

Great post.  Says it all.  I can't believe the Chicago media doesn't say more.  Can you imagine if this were a Boston or New York team.

[Dick Allen]

10 hours ago, The Beast said:

Does anyone else think they’ll slash payroll next year?

They will try, but it's going to be tough. I'm sure JR isn't losing money, but it didn't pile up as high this year as he thought it would last October.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Dick Allen

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 hours ago, The Beast said:

Does anyone else think they’ll slash payroll next year?

It's possible but part of being a good GM is recognizing when you can get bargains. If you are transparent as an owner and other teams suspect a sell off your sell off becomes more like a garage sale. People will show up but be prepared to practically give your stuff away, hang onto it or dump it in the trash bin.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 hours ago, The Beast said:

Still waiting to see if the people who said, we will see if he lasts through a whole season of work and remains good were right about him and the move not to retain him. I bet they are wrong.

It was always going to take a minor miracle for him to get through a season uninjured especially with his past, which is why so many here were fine with not giving him a QO and not signing him as a free agent. They were always the more likely to be correct. Easy position to take. Expecting failure, like with draft choices, is always more likely to be the correct opinion.

I wanted him to get a QO and for him to be resigned and although I have been right so far, especially in regards to the QO , there is still plenty of time for him to wear out or get injured again. If you use fWar ,Rodon's 3.7 is 1.3 higher than Dylan Cease 2.4. According to fWar no other Sox starting pitcher is above a .8 .

bWar is much kinder but not for Giolito or Lynn. Kopech and Cueto are much better using bWar whereas Cease is about the same and Rodon is a tiny bit lower.

Edited July 10, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CentralChamps21]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It was always going to take a minor miracle for him to get through a season uninjured especially with his past, which is why so many here were fine with not giving him a QO and not signing him as a free agent. They were always the more likely to be correct. Easy position to take. Expecting failure, like with draft choices, is always more likely to be the correct opinion.

I wanted him to get a QO and for him to be resigned and although I have been right so far, especially in regards to the QO , there is still plenty of time for him to wear out or get injured again. If you use fWar ,Rodon's 3.7 is 1.3 higher than Dylan Cease 2.4. According to fWar no other Sox starting pitcher is above a .8 .

I split the difference. I 100% wanted the Sox to extend the QO but did not want to commit to a multi-year deal. I'd have been fine with the draft pick, even seeing what he's done with SF this year. That draft pick not only gets you a really good player, but increases the draft pool so you can get another over-slot guy in a middle rounds.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I split the difference. I 100% wanted the Sox to extend the QO but did not want to commit to a multi-year deal. I'd have been fine with the draft pick, even seeing what he's done with SF this year. That draft pick not only gets you a really good player, but increases the draft pool so you can get another over-slot guy in a middle rounds.

The multi year deal made it even trickier since you could get a decent season from him like this year and still have him get reinjured in the 2nd half and not be worth anything in the 2nd year.

But I do think it's strange the we are seeing rumors of the Sox trying to get more starting pitching. If they just had rejected picking up Kimbrel's option then we're not on the hook with Pollock for 2 years or not signed Joe Kelly for 2 years that opened up some money. That might've been enough to resign Rodon since Hahn made it easier to sign Rodon by not extended the QO. Basically everything regarding those 4 players is perhaps up to 50% of the reason why the Sox are mediocre.

Maybe they don't get Cueto or Vince Velasquez in that situation or they sign a cheaper, less injured , better relief pitcher than Kelly for only 1 year.

Edited July 10, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsideirish71]

2 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I split the difference. I 100% wanted the Sox to extend the QO but did not want to commit to a multi-year deal. I'd have been fine with the draft pick, even seeing what he's done with SF this year. That draft pick not only gets you a really good player, but increases the draft pool so you can get another over-slot guy in a middle rounds.

This.  I was not in favor of extending him a long-term deal but one more ride with a QO which would allow us to bank a pick and money for the draft if he said no was a no-brainer.  

[caulfield12]

8 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I split the difference. I 100% wanted the Sox to extend the QO but did not want to commit to a multi-year deal. I'd have been fine with the draft pick, even seeing what he's done with SF this year. That draft pick not only gets you a really good player, but increases the draft pool so you can get another over-slot guy in a middle rounds.

Not the way the Sox draft.  Name someone from the past decade in supplemental or second/third round with that the Sox have successfully drafted and developed.

[Dick Allen]

14 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Not the way the Sox draft.  Name someone from the past decade in supplemental or second/third round with that the Sox have successfully drafted and developed.

List of White Sox 2nd round draft picks that have put up at least a 2.0 career WAR the last 52 years:

Ryan Sweeney 2003  6.9

Jeremy Reed 2002 2.1

Jeff Weaver 1997 15.4, didn't sign

Bob Wickman 1990 16.9

Terry Forster 1970 20.4

 

One didn't sign. 2 were relievers used in trades, with one best known as a punch line in a David Letterman joke. One was used as a headliner to get Freddy Garcia, which was a good move, and the other a thrown in. 

So when the Sox forfeit a 2nd rounder, chances are it won't bite them.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Dick Allen

[Snopek]

So when do the nonsense comments about how the Twins had a bad 21 and bounced back the next year begin? You know, a variation on the 21 Braves comparison, which has thankfully died down.

The dysfunction of this organization is so profound that these comparisons just end up being apples to dumpsters.

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Snopek said:

So when do the nonsense comments about how the Twins had a bad 21 and bounced back the next year begin? You know, a variation on the 21 Braves comparison, which has thankfully died down.

The dysfunction of this organization is so profound that these comparisons just end up being apples to dumpsters.

There has to be a Josh Donaldson-esque fall guy in that scenario. Moncada?  Grandal?  Lynn?  Giolito?  Kelly?  All seem lacking in some way.

But Abreu would be the equivalent of Nelson Cruz.

Only legit "Buxton" bargain extension candidates are Vaughn and Cease. AV probably wants out and to go back to 1B as well.

[shago]

The fact that Rick Hahn is still the GM of this team speaks volumes about the level to which JR gives a shit

[Highland]

41 minutes ago, shago said:

The fact that Rick Hahn is still the GM of this team speaks volumes about the level to which JR gives a shit

I couldn't agree more. In my opinion, this is the lowest this franchise has been since the Reinsdorf-Einhorn group purchased the team in 1981. The organization is being completely run by out-of-touch old men. Not only does Hahn have to go, massive changes should be made. But no one can tell JR what to do because he's such a smart baseball man. But then again, you're right, he really doesn't give a shit. If he did, changes would have happened a long time ago. I really don't know why he wants to keep the team. I guess he doesn't care how he'll be remembered, because this is a disgrace.

[The Grinder]

I think multi-billionaires see life through  a different  prism than the rest of us working stiffs. JR prob doesn't care what the 99%ers think of him. He's got the dough, we don't and he's in control. He gonna do what he wants the rest of us be damned. 

[Kyyle23]

18 hours ago, Snopek said:

So when do the nonsense comments about how the Twins had a bad 21 and bounced back the next year begin? You know, a variation on the 21 Braves comparison, which has thankfully died down.

The dysfunction of this organization is so profound that these comparisons just end up being apples to dumpsters.

Twins literally sucked ass, though.  The Sox are mired in mediocrity

[Dick Allen]

The thing is, teams failing always use other teams that failed but somehow turned it around as the example of the pace they are on. The problem is, the chances of crap like that happening all the time are zero. I am old enough to remember when the White Sox had a 2-0 lead over Boston in the 2005 Divison Series, ESPN saying the Red Sox had them right where they wanted them because they overcame a 3-0 deficit to the Yankees the year before.  Teams below .500 at the midway point aren't like the 2021 Braves and win the WS. It's a pipedream to think this team is a WS contender at this point.

[chetkincaid]

People place a lot of blame on Rick Hahn for this monumental failure of a team. While I admit that he deserves some of the blame, how do we know if he has control over what moves are made or what players are signed? We know he has no say over who the manager is. Honestly, we don’t know how much power Kenny Williams has either. 
 

This is all on Jerry Reinsdorf. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 7/10/2022 at 10:22 AM, southsideirish71 said:

This.  I was not in favor of extending him a long-term deal but one more ride with a QO which would allow us to bank a pick and money for the draft if he said no was a no-brainer.  

I was very local about wanting the Sox to resign him because it was a good bet he wasn't going to get 3 years from anyone because of his injury history.

I don't know if the Sox would've wanted to beat SF offer or would have to go 3 years to do so but if they weren't willing to offer the QO it seemed clear they weren't going to resign him either. The QO would've made it harder for other teams to sign him and thus easier for the Sox to resign him.

BTW Rodon only has to pitch 10 more innings this year to be able to opt out and become a Free Agent next year.

SF should be thanking  Jerry/Hahn/Bozos every day Rodon didn't get a QO.

Edited July 13, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Balta1701]

49 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

People place a lot of blame on Rick Hahn for this monumental failure of a team. While I admit that he deserves some of the blame, how do we know if he has control over what moves are made or what players are signed? We know he has no say over who the manager is. Honestly, we don’t know how much power Kenny Williams has either. 
 

This is all on Jerry Reinsdorf. 

If a GM has no control and is being undermined to create a losing franchise, he should resign.

He might lose money at the time, but he keeps his reputation and chances at future employment in tact. His reputation has been trashed this year - 2 winning halves of baseball in nearly 10 years is something else.