2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Why would they want Eloy?  It makes no sense.  

He's still 25 with tons of upside, and if they can unlock him they can flip him for a haul, and he has 2 option years that aren't expensive unless he continues to suck. 

Edited July 20, 20223 yr by Jack Parkman

13 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Even if a rental, acquiring Soto makes sense. 

The Sox can't afford to trade Kopech. 

I'd build my package around Eloy, Vaughn and Montgomery 

Have to be a lot more flexible than that usually in a big trade some pitching is involved but there's no way to include young 2 major components of the 26 man roster unless Nats think Eloy is salvageable. Burger sure, Sheets sure , Sosa, Crochet, Colas, Davis Martin, all other in the Sox Top 30 they all have to be in play.

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Have to be a lot more flexible than that usually in a big trade some pitching is involved but there's no way to include young 2 major components of the 26 man roster unless Nats think Eloy is salvageable. Burger sure, Sheets sure , Sosa, Crochet, Colas, Davis Martin, all other in the Sox Top 30 they all have to be in play.

I don't consider Eloy a major part of the 26 man roster anymore. He's still 25 with tons of upside and cheap options if he can be unlocked. Eloy would be acquired by Washington to unlock him and then flip him for more prospects. 

Edited July 20, 20223 yr by Jack Parkman

2 minutes ago, T R U said:

Which combination would provide more wins for the Chicago White Sox for the remainder of this year and the next two years.

Juan Soto and Davis Martin or Andrew Vaughn and Michael Kopech?

Considering that Juan Soto alone provides more wins than both Vaughn and Kopech, its an easy choice for me.

Its all wishful thinking anyways.

It's too close to a wash. Let's pin Soto as 6.5 WAR, because his defense drags him. Vaughn is dragged by his horrendous RF numbers which he should not be forced into playing. But I'd put him at 2.. Kopech is dragged by IP, but still is safely 2 WAR. That's 4.5. 

Martin you can't bank on even being positive, much as I like him. but I'll give him 1. That's 3 WAR net positive. But then Soto is likely to break all records for his arb numbers. And kopechs will be hampered by injuries and the very bizarre bias against starting pitchers. Vaughn is still pre-arb. 

Giolito made 4 million in Arb 1, and had a year as one of the best pitchers in baseball. So Kopech is likely less, maybe $3 mill. 

Very likely given that he's already at $18mill in arb 2 that soto is looking at $25 mill and $30mill. So that 3 WAR deficit gets further eaten into the amount of WAR you can add for $20mill. For Hahn, that's zero, but really it's at least 2.

It's really not worth it, and trading your 135 wRC guy for the solid 155 wRC guy is ...it's just not the reason you trade for a 155 wRC guy.

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

He's still 25 with tons of upside, and if they can unlock him they can flip him for a haul, and he has 2 option years that aren't expensive unless he continues to suck. 

Which is exactly the reason the Sox shouldn't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  Eloy would be close to a toss-in in a Soto trade.  He has very little value right now.  He's worth far more to the Sox right now than anyone else. 

Edited July 20, 20223 yr by ChiSox59

I am incredibly pro going after Soto but I just don't see the point if you trade vaughn. Absolutely try to parlay Eloy into parts for Soto, but Vaughn? The point of going all in for soto is not to tread water.

30 minutes ago, hi8is said:

No thanks.

You're right ,can't do that, 2 valuable pieces of the current and future team is a no go. If the Nats do trade Soto by the deadline they will hold out till the bitter end hoping for other teams  get involved and teams upping their offers and injuries to key components of contenders.

White Sox Get: Juan Soto and Patrick Corbin

Nationals Get: Lance Lynn, Andrew Vaughn, Colson Montgomery, Lenyn Sosa, and Norge Vera

7 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

What was it again that he reported in the offseason with the sox?

It was that the Sox were close to getting Montas

1 minute ago, bmags said:

I am incredibly pro going after Soto but I just don't see the point if you trade vaughn. Absolutely try to parlay Eloy into parts for Soto, but Vaughn? The point of going all in for soto is not to tread water.

Trading Vaughn as the centerpiece of Soto allows the rest of the roster to fall into much better place, assuming that Abreu is going no where (probably safe assumption).

I love AV.  But that is a move I'd make.  

1 minute ago, bmags said:

I am incredibly pro going after Soto but I just don't see the point if you trade vaughn. Absolutely try to parlay Eloy into parts for Soto, but Vaughn? The point of going all in for soto is not to tread water.

Vaughn's value is severely diminished on the Sox because he's forced into the OF. Abreu isn't going anywhere while he's still producing. Grandal will probably have to DH next year. 

Sox should look into seeing what they can get for Giolito and then use that as ammo for Soto to try and keep Vaughn. Have to find another SP after that but if you’re comfortable with Cease/Cueto/Kopech as a top 3 and hoping Lynn gets it back you still could have a formidable postseason rotation.

Just now, T R U said:

White Sox Get: Juan Soto and Patrick Corbin

Nationals Get: Lance Lynn, Andrew Vaughn, Colson Montgomery, Lenyn Sosa, and Norge Vera

That's a lot of salary to be picking up without getting rid of enough up unless you can tell me other ways the Sox shed more salary since the idiots tied themselves into 2 years of Pollock  and threw money at an injured relief pitcher instead of getting a prospect for Kimbrel which could've helped in a Soto trade.

As much as we like to b**** about Eloy, the two healthy seasons he had were ok to good. 

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Which is exactly the reason the Sox shouldn't trade him for pennies on the dollar.  Eloy would be close to a toss-in in a Soto trade.  He has very little value right now.  He's worth far more to the Sox right now than anyone else. 

Or on the flip side waiting for a bad fielder to suddenly stop getting injured just to end up being a permanent DH or 1st baseman while we pay him just might be worth getting rid of while anyone has interest in him. Potential future value of Eloy be damned. Dump him and the money owed to him before it's too late.

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Vaughn's value is severely diminished on the Sox because he's forced into the OF. Abreu isn't going anywhere while he's still producing. Grandal will probably have to DH next year. 

FRAA, which is the best metric for OF defense, has him as fine and much improved over last year. It certainly doesn't diminish a 135 wRC+ offense on a team starved for it.

That's fun with small samples, but it is what it is. He's ok to use in LF. Not ok to ship out because DH is taken. That is a different problem to solve.

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

As much as we like to b**** about Eloy, the two healthy seasons he had were ok to good. 

Well sure if u count it as 2 seasons which 2020 was not.

17 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

What was it again that he reported in the offseason with the sox?

I want to say he was always intertwined with Hector 

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

I want to say he was always intertwined with Hector 

He got the Cueto signing correct I believe 

Just now, fathom said:

He got the Cueto signing correct I believe 

this is the fathom I've been waiting for

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well sure if u count it as 2 seasons which 2020 was not.

Fair enough 

50 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

We need to truly look at this as a 2.5 year rental.  

Try to win one of the next 3 WS with him. 

 

2.5 years isn't a rental though.  That's 3 playoff shots

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

I am incredibly pro going after Soto but I just don't see the point if you trade vaughn. Absolutely try to parlay Eloy into parts for Soto, but Vaughn? The point of going all in for soto is not to tread water.

But Soto >>>>> Vaughn.

19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't consider Eloy a major part of the 26 man roster anymore. He's still 25 with tons of upside and cheap options if he can be unlocked. Eloy would be acquired by Washington to unlock him and then flip him for more prospects. 

Right I was saying Eloy is fine to trade IF the Nats consider him salvageable but Eloy along with something like Montgomery,Colas, Davis Martin and maybe the Nats find it intriguing and it leaves the Sox playable roster untouched.

I wish we could add polls mid thread.

Interested to know a breakdown of the thought process of:

- I would like the white sox to go after Juan Soto because it is a rare opportunity and he would make a difference (even if I'm aware it is unlikely and jerry does not sign $500mill checks)
- I do not want the white sox to go after Soto because if the sox will get fleeced
- I do not want the white sox to go after Soto because it isn't a good idea
- I feel a need to say it isn't going to happen and need to have an option or else I will just write it out over and over again as if it is very compelling.