4 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Have any other recent tank jobs failed as spectacularly as the Sox one? Maybe the Pirates of last decade I suppose. 

Don't know if the Pirates ever really committed to a tank job in the first place. 

5 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Have any other recent tank jobs failed as spectacularly as the Sox one? Maybe the Pirates of last decade I suppose. 

My favorite thing is for as big of a joke as the rockies are they'll have equaled Hahn's 2 playoff appearances (and I have doubts that 2020's team which was on fumes in the pitching dept could have made playoffs in 162 games)

We talk a lot about how Hahn has infinite job security, but once he's getting national media criticism and articles written about him, bringing a spotlight onto the Sox and ownership, I think he will be gone (whether it's straight up fired, or leaves on his own)

sucks for him as he will never ever get another job in baseball, that's a fact

1 minute ago, joejoesox said:

We talk a lot about how Hahn has infinite job security, but once he's getting national media criticism and articles written about him, bringing a spotlight onto the Sox and ownership, I think he will be gone (whether it's straight up fired, or leaves on his own)

sucks for him as he will never ever get another job in baseball, that's a fact

This organization has been getting criticized for years both locally (Jay Mariotti) and nationally (Ken Rosenthal when he wrote for The Sporting News) are just two examples.

It doesn't bother them at all.

Rick Hahn will NOT be fired. Period. End of story.

Now he may leave on his own ("health issues" LOL) but he won't be fired. If anything he'll be "promoted" to a senior advisory role a la Kenny Williams. 

1 minute ago, joejoesox said:

We talk a lot about how Hahn has infinite job security, but once he's getting national media criticism and articles written about him, bringing a spotlight onto the Sox and ownership, I think he will be gone (whether it's straight up fired, or leaves on his own)

sucks for him as he will never ever get another job in baseball, that's a fact

Who from the national media is going to write these articles? Hell, ESPN totally forgot that the Sox actually won a championship in 05 before.  No one in the national media cares about the White Sox. They barely exist. 

 

Rick Hahn puts ketchup on his hot dog. 

The sad reality for us Sox fans is KW probably retires after this season and Jerry will end promoting Hahn to head of baseball operations to maintain “stability”.  Since we rarely hire from the outside, Getz will get promoted to GM, KW Jr will get promoted to head of player development, & Haber will continue to maintain the illusion of us having an analytics department.  These four and Paddy will remain the core of our front office for the next forty years because with Jerry you have a job for life and there is no doubt he’ll outlive us all.

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The sad reality for us Sox fans is KW probably retires after this season and Jerry will end promoting Hahn to head of baseball operations to maintain “stability”.  Since we rarely hire from the outside, Getz will get promoted to GM, KW Jr will get promoted to head of player development, & Haber will continue to maintain the illusion of us having an analytics department.  These four and Paddy will remain the core of our front office for the next forty years because with Jerry you have a job for life and there is no doubt he’ll outlive us all.

This is unfortunately extremely accurate.

3 hours ago, joejoesox said:

We talk a lot about how Hahn has infinite job security, but once he's getting national media criticism and articles written about him, bringing a spotlight onto the Sox and ownership, I think he will be gone (whether it's straight up fired, or leaves on his own)

sucks for him as he will never ever get another job in baseball, that's a fact

No because he is a valuable asset to reinsdorf 

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Don't know if the Pirates ever really committed to a tank job in the first place. 

They just committed to sell off their best players like Bell, McCutcheon, Marte, Musgrove, Glasnow, etc. 

Pretty much everyone but Bryan Reynolds and now building around Hayes/Cruz.

 

(And got stuck with the Gregory Polanco ill-advised long-term extension.  Now in JPN.)

2013 - 2022 AL Central Comparison (Overall MLB Rank)

1. Cleveland Win % .517 (4); Payroll $92.1M (26); Attendance 1.411M (27)
2. Minnesota Win % .480 (19); Payroll $111.1M (21); Attendance 1.833M (20)
3. Kansas City Win % .470 (21); Payroll $104.3M (22); Attendance 1.678M (24)
4. Chicago Win % .461 (25); Payroll $115.2M (18); Attendance 1.735M (23)
5. Detroit Win % .452 (28); Payroll $141.7M (11); Attendance 1.955M (18)

White Sox Peers (Teams within two +/-)

• Winning Percentage: (23) Arizona Diamondbacks .464; (24) Philadelphia Phillies .464; (25) Chicago White Sox .461; (26) Colorado Rockies .461; (27) Baltimore Orioles .453.
• Average Payroll: (16) Seattle Mariners $116.0M; (17) Colorado Rockies $115.8M; (18) Chicago $115.2M; (19) San Diego Padres $113.7M; (20) Cincinnati Reds $112.4M.
• Average Attendance: (21) Cincinnati Reds 1.750M; (22) Arizona Diamondbacks 1.749M; (23) Chicago White Sox 1.735M; (24) Kansas City Royals 1.678M; (25) Pittsburgh Pirates 1.644M.

Overall MLB Standings 2013 - 2022

1. Los Angeles Dodgers 931-588  .613 - [$222.2M (1); 3.326M (1)] 2020 WS; 2018 & 2017 NL 
2. New York Yankees 858-660 .565 - [$207.7M (2); 2.797M (3)]
3. Saint Louis Cardinals 848-668 .559 - [$144.4M (10); 2.963M (2)] 2013 NL
4. Cleveland Guardians 845-671 .557 - [$92.1M (26); 1,411M (27)] 2016 AL
5. Houston Astros 832-686 .548 - [$124.3M (14); 2.086M (15)] 2022 & 2017 WS; 2021 & 2019 AL
6. Boston Red Sox 818-700 .539 - [$182.4M (3); 2.471M (7)] 2018 & 2013 WS
7. Tampa Bay Rays 809-710 .533 - [$69.0M (30); 1.097M (30)] 2020 AL
8. Atlanta MLB Team 793-723 .523 - [$120.4M (15); 2.207M (10)] 2021 WS
9. Chicago Cubs 789-729 .520 - [$152.9M (6); 2.556M (5)] 2016 WS
10. Washington Nationals 778-740 .513 - [$152.8M (7); 2.114M (13)] 2019 WS
11. Milwaukee Brewers 778-741 .512 - [$95.2M (25); 2.277M (9)]
12. Oakland Athletics 772-746 .509 - [$76.0M (27); 1.330M (28)]
13. Toronto Blue Jays 770-748 .507 - [$134.2M (13); 2.184M (12)]
14. New York Mets 767-751 .505 - [$148.4M (8); 2.082M (16)] 2015 NL
15. San Francisco Giants 766-752 .505 - [$163.5M (4); 2.558M (4)] 2014 WS
16. Seattle Mariners 762-756 .502 - [$116.0M (16); 1.920M (19)]
17. Los Angeles Angels 743-775 .489 - [$163.4M (5); 2.517M (6)]
18. Minnesota Twins 729-789 .480 - [$111.1M (21); 1.833M (20)]
19. Pittsburgh Pirates 726-790 .479 - [$71.6M (28); 1.644M (25)]
20. Texas Rangers 714-805 .470 - [$139.0M (12); 2.197M (11)]
21. Kansas City Royals 713-805 .470 - [$104.3M (22); 1.678M (24)] 2015 WS; 2014 AL
22. San Diego Padres 707-811 .466 - [$113.7M (19); 2.103M (14)]
23. Philadelphia Phillies 704-814 .464 - [$145.0M (9); 1.977M (17)] 2022 NL
24. Arizona Diamondbacks 704-814 .464 - [$97.3M (24); 1.749M (22)]
25. Chicago White Sox 700-817 .461 - [$115.2M (18); 1.735M (23)]
26. Colorado Rockies 700-818 .461 - [$115.8M (17); 2.408M (8)]
27. Baltimore Orioles 687-831 .453 - [$99.4M (23); 1.638M (26)]
28. Detroit Tigers 684-829 .452 - [$141.7M (11); 1.955M (19)]
29. Cincinnati Reds 684-834 .451 - [$112.4M (20); 1.750M (21)]
30. Miami Marlins 653-863 .431 - [$71.4M (29); 1.161M (29)]

Source Data - The Baseball Cube

Isn’t it extremely interesting in these copy cat leagues that I can only think of two employees across two reinsdorf orgs in twenty years that have been poached by other orgs? (That scout that helped draft jimmy butler going to Orlando Magic and Dan Evans)

Even though bears have sucked they’ve had tons of talent go in and out of their front office. All of reinsdorfs examples happened in the 80s. 
 

Just shrink wrap. Hahn has been in charge for a decade and nobody poached from his Charlie Brown Christmas tree.

That biometrics guy had to go to intel first just to get the stink off.

26 minutes ago, bmags said:

Isn’t it extremely interesting in these copy cat leagues that I can only think of two employees across two reinsdorf orgs in twenty years that have been poached by other orgs? (That scout that helped draft jimmy butler going to Orlando Magic and Dan Evans)

Even though bears have sucked they’ve had tons of talent go in and out of their front office. All of reinsdorfs examples happened in the 80s. 
 

Just shrink wrap. Hahn has been in charge for a decade and nobody poached from his Charlie Brown Christmas tree.

That biometrics guy had to go to intel first just to get the stink off.

And Dan Evans wasn't really poached. He moved on when he was beat out by KW for the GM job.

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

And Dan Evans wasn't really poached. He moved on when he was beat out by KW for the GM job.

True but I’ll give extra credit for being hirable

53 minutes ago, bmags said:

True but I’ll give extra credit for being hirable

There is an ineptness that cannot be denied. They fired Dombrowsiki.  When they decided to fire Gene Lamont, they replaced him with Terry Bevington. Terry Francona was in their organization. The other day, I went back 12 years or so to see if any White Sox draft picks not picked in the first round turned out to be good MLB players. The only one I saw you can definitely pin above replacement level is Marcus Semien. Of course they traded him for crap before he was any good.  At some point, someone needs to be held accountable. But it appears JR couldn't care less and thinks the fans and press are White Sox eniemies.

Personally I think the only way anyone gets fired is if attendance and true season ticket holders drop significantly. Their brand takes a hit in the general public.  The true diehards have known the teams' antics for years but the mainstream casual fan is now seeing terrible results and if they stay home in the summer or the sox are not exciting to watch attendance drops, tv ratings drop and radio ratings drop, that's how JR gets embarrassed. The problem is they will just look internal to pitch their problems, right now the Bears are doing it right , rebuild with a whole new organization that creates some excitement and buzz around a team. Fans want to see hope and entertainment from true stars of the game. 

The JR second place carrot theory is very real and is the only thing that matters.  Look at the Bulls and their idiotic attempt to make the play in just to get soem playoff revenue. 

Affable but Awful 

19 hours ago, reiks12 said:

Hey everyone, we still have Cease and Kopech next year, after that, 0. 0 depth in this organization on the pitching front, hitting front, hell any front.

Maybe a cold front can come through, take KW and Hahn away and drop down some refreshing weather in the process. 

Edited April 20, 20233 yr by GreatScott82

3 hours ago, quickman said:

Personally I think the only way anyone gets fired is if attendance and true season ticket holders drop significantly. Their brand takes a hit in the general public.  The true diehards have known the teams' antics for years but the mainstream casual fan is now seeing terrible results and if they stay home in the summer or the sox are not exciting to watch attendance drops, tv ratings drop and radio ratings drop, that's how JR gets embarrassed. The problem is they will just look internal to pitch their problems, right now the Bears are doing it right , rebuild with a whole new organization that creates some excitement and buzz around a team. Fans want to see hope and entertainment from true stars of the game. 

As I've said given the massive revenue streams that MLB teams are getting attendance doesn't matter as much as in the 1960's. 

And local/national TV/ radio and advertising deals are locked in place. Attendance usually doesn't matter, ratings may... depending on the language of the deal. 

27 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

As I've said given the massive revenue streams that MLB teams are getting attendance doesn't matter as much as in the 1960's. 

And local/national TV/ radio and advertising deals are locked in place. Attendance usually doesn't matter, ratings may... depending on the language of the deal. 

may not matter as much, but the liberty media earnings show it's hugely important to the revenue. 

1 hour ago, bmags said:

may not matter as much, but the liberty media earnings show it's hugely important to the revenue. 

They need ratings to warrant a price at renewal.  The thing is the White Sox split with the Bulls, Hawks and Comcast so the actual White Sox ratings aren't as great as if they were on a stand alone entity.  

1 hour ago, bmags said:

may not matter as much, but the liberty media earnings show it's hugely important to the revenue. 

I agree it is important but I think I read where for the first time ever, MLB teams are getting more money from media contracts then they are from attendance. 

I remember seeing Heyman's article about a potential future White Sox sale. How would this work? Isn't Jerry a majority share holder? Would those other share holders sell their stake in the team as well? It would be a glorious day for us all as this maybe the only way we see Hahn/KW and the rest of that inept front office depart. 

 

 

21 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The sad reality for us Sox fans is KW probably retires after this season and Jerry will end promoting Hahn to head of baseball operations to maintain “stability”.  Since we rarely hire from the outside, Getz will get promoted to GM, KW Jr will get promoted to head of player development, & Haber will continue to maintain the illusion of us having an analytics department.  These four and Paddy will remain the core of our front office for the next forty years because with Jerry you have a job for life and there is no doubt he’ll outlive us all.

Hired from outside with the Bulls, guys with five star credentials and got the same results as with the White Sox.  So the "right" way doesn't always work, for all you guys with mathematical minds.  Nothing works all the time. I can't argue with the premise of this thread about Hahn.  He's failed.