On 9/24/2022 at 5:47 PM, CentralChamps21 said:

I just don't see Hahn getting fired. The best we can hope for is KW retires, Hahn moves up to his spot, and someone from outside the org gets brought in as GM and is allowed to actually make decisions.

If KW retires, and Hahn moves up a spot,  we need to be afraid of  JR promoting Daryl Boston to Assistant GM before a search begins for an actual GM

1 minute ago, A-Train to 35th said:

If KW retires, and Hahn moves up a spot,  we need to be afraid of  JR promoting Daryl Boston to Assistant GM before a search begins for an actual GM

Dave Duncans son will be promoted to GM

3 hours ago, Stinky Stanky said:

With a payroll of $197M I'd place the blame at RH's feet.  He did get JR to spend the money, so I give him credit for that.  If I were JR, I'd be mad as hell about what he did with it.

I’m thinking JR wanting to help his friend Tony succeed played a big role in increasing payroll to sign the players Tony had a connection to and wanted the past two years (Lynn, Liam, Luery’s extension, Kelly, Lamb).

Tony sold Jerry on these guys, though not saying Hahn wasn’t also for most of it, plus guys like Kimbrel, Cesar Hernandez and Eaton Hahn might have  coveted more than Tony.

Edited September 26, 20223 yr by South Side Hit Men

 

 

 

1 hour ago, soulfly said:

We get it dude, you hate religion.  It's fine, that's your right, f*** the church.  But bitching about it that hard is no different than those who love it and preach it to others.  They are equally as annoying.

 

But also, f*** Dayton Moore.

I don't hate religion. I hate when people force their religion upon others. Especially in aspects of life that it has absolutely no business being in. I also hate people who use their religion for moral superiority over those that are different from them. And religious fundamentalism of all kinds can f*** right off. Religious fundamentalists (like Moore) tend to be among the most hateful, intolerant people on the planet. Regardless of their religious belief.

All of this is neither here nor there. The point is, Moore is a fucking clown. Holding religious anti-porn meetings as the GM of a sports team is fucking ridiculous.

5 hours ago, chw42 said:

Yeah, the payroll looks good in terms of total value, but JR also limits what kind of long-term money the FO can spend. Which in turn limits the types of players they can go after. We know JR won't give any mega-deals out, so now we're left with a hand-full of big deals to mid-level free agent types and almost every one of them has blown up in their face. Keuchel and Grandal's deals are now disastrous contracts. Keuchel might be off the books, but we wasted $36 million on him these last 2 years to get below replacement level innings. Grandal, unless he miraculously gets healthy again, is a replacement level catcher who can't even catch every day. Hendriks also got a similar level contract, but he's also trending downwards with potential elbow issues down the line. 

I don't know how Jerry or the FO can sit there with a straight face and tell any of us those investments were better than spending the $300+ million needed to land either Harper or Machado. The 3 aforementioned contracts with Kelly and Graveman added already sits at a total commitment of $222 million over about a 5 year span. Please tell me how that's better than getting 5+ years of prime production from Harper or Machado. 

Solid post.

I was ok with missing out on Machado, not because he is an awesome player, but due to the fact I thought it would hamstring the team in terms of building a complete roster and starting lineup.

If I had known the Sox would have  $200M / year to work with (40% higher than their previous max payrolls), or they were going to use that money to pay guys like Grandal, Keuchel and Lynn instead, I would have supported the Machado deal at the time.

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“We should be proud of the aggressiveness and creativity of our offer, which we were told was not only extremely competitive, but if the reports out there are accurate was superior to what was ultimately selected in certain ways.”

“For me personally, trying and falling short isn't sufficient so I'm going to take the next few hours to continue to be pretty pissed off about this."

-Rick Hahn 2/19/19

 

I think Machado has showed he can carry a team by himself. I get deciding that in the end, he's not worth not being able to build the rest of the roster. The reason why I would've argued against that is that if you have what everyone thinks are young studs coming up at darn near every position, and you've had general success in developing pitching, Machado makes the most sense for your team. 

Instead, the deals that they signed are mind boggling - Manny Machado fan club, Eaton, Kelly, Hendriks, Grandal (never liked that deal from the get go), Keuchel (who looked washed with ATL, but got bailed out quite a bit), Lynn (which I thought was a bad use of assets, though he has played better than I expected overall). I just think Hahn didn't know what to do after he actually acquired a ton of prospects. You almost needed a Dave Dombroski type to cash in the chips for him. 

The Angels and Red Sox were the only non-playoff teams to spend more money per win than the White Sox. Payroll is not the issue.  Hahn's horrible decision making and inability to understand how to build a baseball team is the issue.  We have a long track resord of this.

FIRE RICK HAHN

21 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The Angels and Red Sox were the only non-playoff teams to spend more money per win than the White Sox. Payroll is not the issue.  Hahn's horrible decision making and inability to understand how to build a baseball team is the issue.  We have a long track resord of this.

I agree with this. I think we have so much proof, there can be no benefit of doubt. But I think there is zero chance they show him the door. Pretty ridiculous.

19 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I agree with this. I think we have so much proof, there can be no benefit of doubt. But I think there is zero chance they show him the door. Pretty ridiculous.

Oh I don't know about the 0 chance of Hahn being fired. JR opened up the checkbook and Hahn cost JR ticket revenue during the season and playoff revenue .

I think JR wanted to win but he still hasn't realized the infrastructure has to be very strong  before you start pouring money into the player payroll .

I don't know how much hiring from good organizations costs. If you start with the people paid the least like scouts , coaches and then people with skills in analytics and biomechanics then move into the front office or hire a top GM to oversee the hiring of those people how much more would that cost JR per season than what it's costing him now $5-10M ?

Then JR has to let the guys like Paddy do their jobs and compete like most of MLB does by going after top 16 yr old talent.

JR's got no one to blame but himself but Hahn cost him money in the way he butchered the team construct.

That's not to say you are wrong. Maybe JR knows he's tough to work for because he handcuffs his FO people with the limitations he's puts on everything to save money.

Now film Rick Hahn.

 

On 9/27/2022 at 5:59 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Oh I don't know about the 0 chance of Hahn being fired. JR opened up the checkbook and Hahn cost JR ticket revenue during the season and playoff revenue .

I think JR wanted to win but he still hasn't realized the infrastructure has to be very strong  before you start pouring money into the player payroll .

I don't know how much hiring from good organizations costs. If you start with the people paid the least like scouts , coaches and then people with skills in analytics and biomechanics then move into the front office or hire a top GM to oversee the hiring of those people how much more would that cost JR per season than what it's costing him now $5-10M ?

Then JR has to let the guys like Paddy do their jobs and compete like most of MLB does by going after top 16 yr old talent.

JR's got no one to blame but himself but Hahn cost him money in the way he butchered the team construct.

That's not to say you are wrong. Maybe JR knows he's tough to work for because he handcuffs his FO people with the limitations he's puts on everything to save money.

I agree with most of what you say.

I think the wild card question, is how many of the moves in the past 2 seasons were forced on Hahn by TLR?  Tony has been well know for loving loaded bullpens. Although they failed badly, they spent tons of money on the pen trying to load it up, and they did it at the expense of filling legit holes on this team like RF, 2B and SP depth. With left handed power being a huge need among the needs on the team.

And let's not forget this spring when TLR called out Sox fans who wanted a right fielder from outside the organization - saying they must not be real White Sox fans if they think RF can't be filled from within the organization. How did that turn out?

I'm not saying I want Hahn back, as I've been clear I think a 100% turnover in the front office and coaching staff should happen. But if Hahn's hands have been tied by not only Reinsdorf's risk averse approach and refusal to sign top tier free agent talent, but also TLR's mandated moves these past 2 seasons - I could see where JR would give him a mulligan.

On 9/26/2022 at 6:18 PM, A-Train to 35th said:

If KW retires, and Hahn moves up a spot

Failing up .... should be the name of Rick's memoir one day.

How do i get to absolutely suck at my job, be the worst among my peers, and get a promotion?

Jerry Reinsdorf, please [go away] and take the clown show with you.

4 hours ago, Sarava said:

I agree with most of what you say.

I think the wild card question, is how many of the moves in the past 2 seasons were forced on Hahn by TLR?  Tony has been well know for loving loaded bullpens. Although they failed badly, they spent tons of money on the pen trying to load it up, and they did it at the expense of filling legit holes on this team like RF, 2B and SP depth. With left handed power being a huge need among the needs on the team.

And let's not forget this spring when TLR called out Sox fans who wanted a right fielder from outside the organization - saying they must not be real White Sox fans if they think RF can't be filled from within the organization. How did that turn out?

I'm not saying I want Hahn back, as I've been clear I think a 100% turnover in the front office and coaching staff should happen. But if Hahn's hands have been tied by not only Reinsdorf's risk averse approach and refusal to sign top tier free agent talent, but also TLR's mandated moves these past 2 seasons - I could see where JR would give him a mulligan.

Oh I agree , a mulligan by JR is always a consideration . I just didn't bring up the TLR influence because Hahn got his name on the GM door and TLR got Manager on his door. Just remember my post was responding to a zero per cent chance of Hahn being fired so I disagreed with that even if there's only a 5 % chance , that still isn't 0% . So anything you say about a chance of retaining Hahn means I'd also have to agree mathematically.

With what came out today from Robert Hahn needs to go.... Wow what an incompetent fool

On 9/29/2022 at 3:19 AM, Sarava said:

I agree with most of what you say.

I think the wild card question, is how many of the moves in the past 2 seasons were forced on Hahn by TLR?  Tony has been well know for loving loaded bullpens.

Let's say that's true.  Fine - Hahn's just been an errand boy for the last decade.  We can find another errand boy, so there's no risk in firing him.  And the next errand boy might have some gumption to try to do more, like build a system, build a real pro-scouting department, build analytics, etc.

 

2 hours ago, JoshPR said:

With what came out today from Robert Hahn needs to go.... Wow what an incompetent fool

Oh oh, what did I miss?

40 minutes ago, JTB said:

Oh oh, what did I miss?

Yeah.

50 minutes ago, JTB said:

Oh oh, what did I miss?

It's in the Luis Robert interview. Dude somewhat was reluctant to recognise the severity of the injury

https://soxmachine.com/white-sox-news/white-sox-management-opted-out-of-managing-luis-roberts-wrist/

How many times did people on this site say to IL him?  It was obvious to anyone watching.  He was not helping the team or himself.  Absolutely ridiculous.

Quote

The fact that nobody stepped up until it was way too late suggests that nobody knew who was empowered. Either that, or they weren’t competent or they didn’t care.

This entire organizational management  from Jerry down are cowardly pieces of s%*#.

 

2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

This entire organizational management  from Jerry down are cowardly pieces of s%*#.

 

Let’s not also forget that Kopech was allowed to lose a game when he was clearly hurt 

Just now, fathom said:

Let’s not also forget that Kopech was allowed to lose a game when he was clearly hurt 

People need to think about the way the White Sox FO conducts business before jumping on guys when they are hurt.

Stevie Wonder could see Luis Robert wasn’t healthy enough to hold a bat this month. I don’t want to see a single guy in the Organization’s FO / Clubhouse (excluding Paddy) ever in another MLB media guide, definitely  not in a White Sox media guide. 

Assuredly the usual suspects both here and in the media will point the finger at Tony and exculpate Hahn, but in a court of law, just like with Brian Ball’s lawsuit, pathetic Hahn is ultimately responsible for who is or is not an active player on the Chicago White Sox, whether his cowardly ass is hiding on the North Shore, or punching cabinets in his office, or wherever.