Rumor: White Sox might be for sale

[wegner]

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Too lowbrow. The riff raff fans and location.

Pass the Grey Poupon.

 

[wegner]

3 minutes ago, PitchatRisktoZisk said:

Yes 

In that case, yeah he ain't selling.  Thank you.

[Texsox]

Buy and move. Why share a market? 

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Buy and move. Why share a market? 

No one is moving the Sox out of Chicago…

[bighurt4life]

54 minutes ago, PitchatRisktoZisk said:

As long a he is alive, he will never sell. He's on record that will never happen. I wish people would stop teasing us with these stories. JR thinks $1 paid to the government is $1 too much. He will NEVER pay the tax on the sale of the team. He'll leave it to one of his kids and let them pay the estate taxes. 

Good way to avoid estate taxes, sell your team for $1B or whatever the value, turn around and sink that money into a different $1B investment. This should keep the govt from taking 20% in cap gains. 

[kitekrazy]

Shit journalism exists in all genres.  The Son are kinda winning so they are not really newsworthy.

Edited September 3, 2022 by kitekrazy

[RibbieRubarb]

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

Buy and move. Why share a market? 

I heard San Antonio is a bustling city and nice this time of year….

[Sarava]

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

Buy and move. Why share a market? 

Because there's a lot more money to be made here than anywhere else.

[Texsox]

3 hours ago, Sarava said:

Because there's a lot more money to be made here than anywhere else.

So you want an owner who cares about making money with the franchise? 

[bmags]

He’ll sell. 

[BamaDoc]

10 hours ago, bighurt4life said:

Good way to avoid estate taxes, sell your team for $1B or whatever the value, turn around and sink that money into a different $1B investment. This should keep the govt from taking 20% in cap gains. 

Don't think it works that way in this case.  Jerry is a stockholder.  The biggest stockholder.  If stock is sold at a profit, tax is owed no matter what is done with the proceeds.  That is different than a home if that is your reference.  Also with stock,  when someone dies, their tax basis becomes what the value was on the date of death not what original person bought it for.  So Sox stock has gone way up.  Jerry sells, Jerry pays big tax.  That tax hit for heirs is much less when he passes.  Think this is correct but not a tax attorney.

[BamaDoc]

I buy a stock for $1.  Over time it becomes worth $100.  If I sell, I owe tax on $99 dollar profit.  If I die, my heirs tax basis is $100.  If they sell at $105, they pay tax on the $5 difference not on $104.  He won't sell and I wouldn't either.  It will take him passing for a sale and I can't hope for him to die for my fandom.

[Chisoxfn]

9 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

I buy a stock for $1.  Over time it becomes worth $100.  If I sell, I owe tax on $99 dollar profit.  If I die, my heirs tax basis is $100.  If they sell at $105, they pay tax on the $5 difference not on $104.  He won't sell and I wouldn't either.  It will take him passing for a sale and I can't hope for him to die for my fandom.

This sums it up. 

[Sarava]

13 hours ago, Texsox said:

So you want an owner who cares about making money with the franchise? 

Absolutely. I'd like an owner who makes a lot of money, and re-invests a lot of it back in to the team.

[Texsox]

Just now, Sarava said:

Absolutely. I'd like an owner who makes a lot of money, and re-invests a lot of it back in to the team.

Then you should love the current owner. Seventh highest payroll in baseball. 

[Sarava]

Just now, Texsox said:

Then you should love the current owner. Seventh highest payroll in baseball. 

Right the owner with the 7th highest payroll in baseball this season. Also the same guy who's payroll before 2022 wasn't higher than 15th in baseball since 2013. Yep, he's a big spender. That's a great take!

The owner that wont sign anyone for more than a $73 million contract.

The owner who is too cheap to EVER sign premium talent talent in free agency. Ooops, sorry.... not ever, just not since Albert Belle in 1996.

The owner who sells international cap space to save money instead of bringing in more prospects that the team has a dire need for.

The owner who is too damn cheap to adequately invest in drafting and player development through the minor leagues.

You're right. I just love him to death.

[Texsox]

5 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Right the owner with the 7th highest payroll in baseball this season. Also the same guy who's payroll before 2022 wasn't higher than 15th in baseball since 2013. Yep, he's a big spender. That's a great take!

The owner that wont sign anyone for more than a $73 million contract.

The owner who is too cheap to EVER sign premium talent talent in free agency. Ooops, sorry.... not ever, just not since Albert Belle in 1996.

The owner who sells international cap space to save money instead of bringing in more prospects that the team has a dire need for.

The owner who is too damn cheap to adequately invest in drafting and player development through the minor leagues.

You're right. I just love him to death.

Invest in drafting and player development? What is the team's total expense? And how does it compare? 

[Sarava]

36 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Invest in drafting and player development? What is the team's total expense? And how does it compare? 

You can ask your buddy Jerry. They're well known for being cheap with player development, and the results have backed that up over the years/decades. Not sure what you're arguing here. And what about the rest of my post? Surely you disagree with the rest if you feel he's such a big spender?

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Invest in drafting and player development? What is the team's total expense? And how does it compare? 

Jerry's second favorite White Sox moment after Adam Laroche handing him $13M is trading International Bonus slots, allowing him to spend less on the one area the White Sox actually has an advantage in talent acquisition.

Mariners Trade Thyago Vieira To White Sox For International Bonus Money

Pirates trade Jarrod Dyson to Chicago White Sox for international bonus pool money

Phillies add international bonus pool money in trade with White Sox

Yankees acquire international bonus pool money from White Sox

Diamondbacks trade pitching prospect Ryan Burr to White Sox for International Bonus Pool Money

Yankees acquire international bonus pool money from White Sox

Texas Rangers acquire Nate Jones and International Bonus Pool Money from the White Sox

White Sox continue shredding international bonus pool money while rebuilding

White Sox Acquire Yeyson Yrizarri From Rangers For International Bonus Slot

[tray]

 As far as the population "shift", a lot of  retirees understandably leave cities with colder climates ( some after their kids are done with public schools and the parents  qualify for pensions including those funded by our State) .  A lot of them end up moving back when they realize all the things that they miss  from their family and friends to many other things that the greater Chgo area has to offer. ...like Lake Michigan water..(Google "Lake Meade")

Our society is in the midst of a digital revolution that is more impactful than the industrial revolution was.  But before you start packing to move to a hotter climate or scenic are, you better check to see how climate change might play a role in the future - drought, wildfires, tornadoes, hurricanes. flooding, lack of drinking water.  We are all in this together, no matter where you are from.  We cannot get stronger by running away from our problems  here and adding to others there.

[Lip Man 1]

On 9/3/2022 at 7:26 AM, BamaDoc said:

Don't think it works that way in this case.  Jerry is a stockholder.  The biggest stockholder.  If stock is sold at a profit, tax is owed no matter what is done with the proceeds.  That is different than a home if that is your reference.  Also with stock,  when someone dies, their tax basis becomes what the value was on the date of death not what original person bought it for.  So Sox stock has gone way up.  Jerry sells, Jerry pays big tax.  That tax hit for heirs is much less when he passes.  Think this is correct but not a tax attorney.

A person who appears to have good knowledge of the tax situation posted this here at the site. The difference could be around 200,000 million dollars if JR's family sells the team after he has died in tax savings. here is what they wrote:

“In paying the estate tax, Michael Reinsdorf will get a step up in basis to the current market value of the franchise, which will be whatever it is valued at on the estate tax return, so that when he sells, the capital gains tax will be $0. If Jerry Reinsdorf sells now, he has to pay capital gains tax, then the estate has to pay tax on the proceeds.

 

Using a two-billion-dollar example: 

Jerry’s capital gains tax= $2 billion - $19 million = $1.981 billion X 20% capital gains tax = $396.2 million.

Jerry’s estate tax on sale= $1.585 billion X 40% estate tax = $634 million.

Total tax paid if he sells while still alive= $1 billion dollars (not counting Illinois state tax!) 

If Michael (Reinsdorf family) sells the team after Jerry has passed again using two-billion-dollars: 

Jerry’s estate tax on the franchise interest= $2 billion X 40% = $800 million.

Michael’s capital gains tax on sale of team= $2 billion - $2 billion = $0 X 20% = $0.

Total tax paid if the family sells after death= $800 million dollars (with no state tax paid!) 

Obviously those numbers are for the full franchise and since he doesn’t own the full franchise, the numbers would probably be less, but the tax savings would be similar.”

JR is no fool...he's not selling.

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Lip Man 1

[Sarava]

4 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

A person who appears to have good knowledge of the tax situation posted this here at the site. The difference could be around 200,000 thousand dollars if JR's family sells the team after he has died in tax savings. here is what they wrote:

“In paying the estate tax, Michael Reinsdorf will get a step up in basis to the current market value of the franchise, which will be whatever it is valued at on the estate tax return, so that when he sells, the capital gains tax will be $0. If Jerry Reinsdorf sells now, he has to pay capital gains tax, then the estate has to pay tax on the proceeds.

 

Using a two-billion-dollar example: 

Jerry’s capital gains tax= $2 billion - $19 million = $1.981 billion X 20% capital gains tax = $396.2 million.

Jerry’s estate tax on sale= $1.585 billion X 40% estate tax = $634 million.

Total tax paid if he sells while still alive= $1 billion dollars (not counting Illinois state tax!) 

If Michael (Reinsdorf family) sells the team after Jerry has passed again using two-billion-dollars: 

Jerry’s estate tax on the franchise interest= $2 billion X 40% = $800 million.

Michael’s capital gains tax on sale of team= $2 billion - $2 billion = $0 X 20% = $0.

Total tax paid if the family sells after death= $800 million dollars (with no state tax paid!) 

Obviously those numbers are for the full franchise and since he doesn’t own the full franchise, the numbers would probably be less, but the tax savings would be similar.”

JR is no fool...he's not selling.

 

I think it's 200 mil, not 200 thousand right? I believe I read the same article that these numbers came from (it was from one of the Sox internet sites) and as your copy and paste shows,  the $200 mil was based on him owning the White Sox entirely, which he does not own entirely. I don't know what his ownership % is.

All this said, if someone comes in and blows the doors off with a high offer, that's where it might get interesting. If the Sox perceived value is $2 bil, but someone comes in and offers 3.2 bil...then what does JR do? The tax penalty goes up with a higher offer, but there's no guarantee his estate would see an offer like this in a rushed sale after he passes. Sometimes it pays to strike while the iron is hot.

I don't know that the Sox are worth more than 2 bil if an owner plans on staying at the current site. Maybe not...probably not. But I'll go back to the Bears - Arlington Park example. They actually have room (easily) for both a football stadium and a baseball stadium there, as well as hotels, casinos and everything else they might want. This is the type of example where a potential owner might blow the doors off with a huge offer. Because the payback would be there if a move like this would be made. Revenues would go through the roof, and probably at a scale not seen by Chicago baseball teams ever before.

Regarding the Sox moving? That's why I said I'm not worried about the Sox being bought and moved. There's more money to be made here (likely in the suburbs though), than any market they can move in. The one possible exception is Las Vegas. But even with Vegas, it would probably make more financial sense to buy a team out of a smaller marker and move them to Vegas.

And to clarify my earlier post. I like Jerry Reinsdorf as a person. I respect every business owner that takes care of their employees, and he's well known to be fiercely loyal to his people. That is great and I think he's a good person. Maybe not the best owner from a fan's standpoint - but there surely are much worse owners out there.

 

[NCsoxfan]

On 9/2/2022 at 6:33 PM, CentralChamps21 said:

If Mark Cuban isn't your first choice to be the next Sox owner, please explain why you're wrong.

Cuban is actually an idiot, don’t be fooled. The guy literally recommended the average Joe invest in various cryptocurrencies last year that turned out to be frauds. 

[The Mighty Mite]

9 hours ago, tray said:

 As far as the population "shift", a lot of  retirees understandably leave cities with colder climates ( some after their kids are done with public schools and the parents  qualify for pensions including those funded by our State) .  A lot of them end up moving back when they realize all the things that they miss  from their family and friends to many other things that the greater Chgo area has to offer. ...like Lake Michigan water..(Google "Lake Meade")

Our society is in the midst of a digital revolution that is more impactful than the industrial revolution was.  But before you start packing to move to a hotter climate or scenic are, you better check to see how climate change might play a role in the future - drought, wildfires, tornadoes, hurricanes. flooding, lack of drinking water.  We are all in this together, no matter where you are from.  We cannot get stronger by running away from our problems  here and adding to others there.

We moved to Florida  29 years ago and have never looked back, best move we ever made.