Will Abreu be a White Sox in 2023?

[Harold's Leg Lift]

7 minutes ago, fathom said:

Really hope he goes to Marlins or Astros or Brewers.  Would hate to see him on Guardians or Cubs.

I would freakin love it. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

21 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

So Jerry really is smarter than our front office.

It was a dumb move at the time since we already had him under the QO already.  Clearly worked out though

[he gone.]

i was surprised when i read that too. good on jerry. i was in the minority of being okay with that resigning back in the day. most of the board hated it. most of chicago media hated it. 

too bad it probably emboldens him a bit too much on other decisions (aka TLR). 

 

Just for sheets and giggles I went back to when we resigned abreu ... (and grandal at same time). here are some fun takes that people disagreed with. 

Again, temper the excitement on Grandal and probably kick up a notch on Abreu. This board has watched probably 5 total games of Grandal in the background from their couch in the past 5 years but everybody is an expert on a guy with a career ops under .800 and who couldn't secure a multi-year deal last year. He's a solid catcher.

Okay, well then what if Grandal's knees age like every other catchers have and he's just a DH?

Grandal being the second coming of Jesus reminds me of the time SoxTalk was obsessed with Cespedes. Grandal is a fine player -- we need to temper the expectations - he's likely to be less than a .250 hitter and have a OBP of like .345 and hit 20 homers. Honestly he'll probably just put up a year like McCann did last year. 

This response received 2 laughing emojis. 

Take the emotions of this Abreu contract, and the emotions of signing the Grandal contract and meet in the middle. That's where your heads should be at. 

Neither are winning or losing us a Championship. These are Tier 2 guys (Jose in his age is a Tier 2 guy). You need a number of these solid, dependable veterans on a winning team. 

The key still remains having a few guys breakout into Tier 1 stars. So far it looks like we have a few of those guys and we just have to hope they continue to develop. 

If we do those things we should be in a good position in a few years to go out and sprinkle in what you need at the time via minor league depth - whether that be a speed guy, a bullpen arm, a LHB, a Power bat, a contact guy, a TOR starter .... whatever the situation calls for. 

Don't worry - this is alright. We are still on the same path as long. Jerry paying Jose in 2022 shouldn't hold us back from spending to put together a championship roster in 2022. If it does, then we never really had a shot to begin. You either believe the money is there to spend or you don't. I'm cautiously optimistic. 

Apply this exact same post to this year/offseason. We need the likes of Eloy, Robert, etc. to take that step forward to be a superstar or this whole thing is for naught. Also, if spending on Abreu is too much, then we never really had or have a shot moving forward anyways. We needed a LHB, a power bat, a contact guy a bullpen arm and a TOR starter ... we were indeed held back by payroll ...

I'm saying at the end of his contract .. so his ages 33 and 34. Look at Catcher historical results -- even the best like Posey really age poorly. Mauer is another example. Of course I hope it doesn't happen and maybe it will be less if we have him at DH a bit more over these next few years. But I think there's a real shot his HR total and ability to get on base drops with age and you're stuck then paying a big tab for a DH and occasional backup catcher. 

 

 

I'll be the negative guy and get sh*t on for it and I don't care. This signing is a C- in my opinion. Again in my opinion.

The good: It signals that we aren't going to sit around and accept anymore losing seasons. It gives us a nice OBP guy, fills a position of need and LHB. 

 

The bad: This move works for 2 years or so, but those probably won't be the two years we need him the most. In those years you're basically signing yourself up for an $18mm DH/1B and backup catcher who is going to hit .240, with like a .320 OBP and hit 15 home runs tying up capital in 2022 and 2023 when we really need that money the most. Aka, you're getting Yonder Alonso or any other average hitter that would cost 1/3rd of that. Again in a very Hahn move we could've just kept Navarez and applied $65-70mm elsewhere, but here we are. 

This isn't about 2020 since we're not winning any playoff series, so it's kind of a waste to get the best out of someone when it doesn't matter. 

Just my two cents. 

I'll take the signing, but it better not limit us in 2 years when it truly matters. 

[Bossanoveralls]

17 minutes ago, he gone. said:

i was surprised when i read that too. good on jerry. i was in the minority of being okay with that resigning back in the day. most of the board hated it. most of chicago media hated it. 

too bad it probably emboldens him a bit too much on other decisions (aka TLR). 

 

Just for sheets and giggles I went back to when we resigned abreu ... (and grandal at same time). here are some fun takes that people disagreed with. 

Again, temper the excitement on Grandal and probably kick up a notch on Abreu. This board has watched probably 5 total games of Grandal in the background from their couch in the past 5 years but everybody is an expert on a guy with a career ops under .800 and who couldn't secure a multi-year deal last year. He's a solid catcher.

Okay, well then what if Grandal's knees age like every other catchers have and he's just a DH?

Grandal being the second coming of Jesus reminds me of the time SoxTalk was obsessed with Cespedes. Grandal is a fine player -- we need to temper the expectations - he's likely to be less than a .250 hitter and have a OBP of like .345 and hit 20 homers. Honestly he'll probably just put up a year like McCann did last year. 

This response received 2 laughing emojis. 

Take the emotions of this Abreu contract, and the emotions of signing the Grandal contract and meet in the middle. That's where your heads should be at. 

Neither are winning or losing us a Championship. These are Tier 2 guys (Jose in his age is a Tier 2 guy). You need a number of these solid, dependable veterans on a winning team. 

The key still remains having a few guys breakout into Tier 1 stars. So far it looks like we have a few of those guys and we just have to hope they continue to develop. 

If we do those things we should be in a good position in a few years to go out and sprinkle in what you need at the time via minor league depth - whether that be a speed guy, a bullpen arm, a LHB, a Power bat, a contact guy, a TOR starter .... whatever the situation calls for. 

Don't worry - this is alright. We are still on the same path as long. Jerry paying Jose in 2022 shouldn't hold us back from spending to put together a championship roster in 2022. If it does, then we never really had a shot to begin. You either believe the money is there to spend or you don't. I'm cautiously optimistic. 

Apply this exact same post to this year/offseason. We need the likes of Eloy, Robert, etc. to take that step forward to be a superstar or this whole thing is for naught. Also, if spending on Abreu is too much, then we never really had or have a shot moving forward anyways. We needed a LHB, a power bat, a contact guy a bullpen arm and a TOR starter ... we were indeed held back by payroll ...

I'm saying at the end of his contract .. so his ages 33 and 34. Look at Catcher historical results -- even the best like Posey really age poorly. Mauer is another example. Of course I hope it doesn't happen and maybe it will be less if we have him at DH a bit more over these next few years. But I think there's a real shot his HR total and ability to get on base drops with age and you're stuck then paying a big tab for a DH and occasional backup catcher. 

 

 

I'll be the negative guy and get sh*t on for it and I don't care. This signing is a C- in my opinion. Again in my opinion.

The good: It signals that we aren't going to sit around and accept anymore losing seasons. It gives us a nice OBP guy, fills a position of need and LHB. 

 

The bad: This move works for 2 years or so, but those probably won't be the two years we need him the most. In those years you're basically signing yourself up for an $18mm DH/1B and backup catcher who is going to hit .240, with like a .320 OBP and hit 15 home runs tying up capital in 2022 and 2023 when we really need that money the most. Aka, you're getting Yonder Alonso or any other average hitter that would cost 1/3rd of that. Again in a very Hahn move we could've just kept Navarez and applied $65-70mm elsewhere, but here we are. 

This isn't about 2020 since we're not winning any playoff series, so it's kind of a waste to get the best out of someone when it doesn't matter. 

Just my two cents. 

I'll take the signing, but it better not limit us in 2 years when it truly matters. 

That's very impressive.

[Buehrle>Wood]

21 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

It was a dumb move at the time since we already had him under the QO already.  Clearly worked out though

He only accepted because he had a 3 year extension on the table, just not officially signed. It was semantics at that point.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Buehrle>Wood

[southsider2k5]

For the record, I wonder if this is way of the group that didn't get their way on Abreu three years ago trying to force this issue this year.

[greg775]

Common sense needed here: Getting rid of your best every day player because team has too many slow DH types and they can't all play 1B or DH. When it's the GM's fault you have so many players like that. Fire the GM. Keep the player.

[pcq]

Sox don't really have tier one guys at present.

[he gone.]

2 minutes ago, pcq said:

Sox don't really have tier one guys at present.

This is correct. We have guys with the talent to be Tier 1 (Robert and Eloy). We have guys who have shown Tier 1 for short bursts (Anderson). But at present the only Tier 1 candidates are Cease and Hendriks, and probably just the latter as we would've said that Gio was Tier 1 over the past few years before this. As we've seen in these playoffs, anything can happen in the playoffs, but based on the trajectory, the spending habits of JR, and the lack of urgency to push chips in an increasingly smaller and smaller "open window" I believe this team will likely not meet any of its goals. I'd be shocked to win a pennant before this whole team is stripped down and torn for parts. Our best chance remains 2023 before you see the likes of Hendriks, Gio, etc. all gone. Hence why signing Abreu on a 1yr deal with a buyout and option that make sense for both parties & is a no-brainer in my opinion. The other no brainer is overpaying on a pillow contract for Conforto. Same deal. 1 year deal, overpay, and be done with it. Pay your luxury tax, add on the fringes and let's go all-in. I don't get the sense that's the direction we're headed and expect us to compete on the fringes for a bad division while not really having a real shot before tearing it all down and being a team mired in mediocrity until JR sells the team or dies and the new team fires his cronies. It may be the pessimistic outlook, but i also think its the realistic outlook. With how this team is built you HAVE to go all-in this season or you might as well start a MASSIVE sell off that retools this team completely so you can get a return on some of your assets before they depreciate further. 

 

AKA - if you're not going to go all in with last or next to last seasons of  Lynn, Grandal, Hendriks, Anderson, Giolito, etc. then you better start making calls around the league and seeing what you can get in return. 

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

For the record, I wonder if this is way of the group that didn't get their way on Abreu three years ago trying to force this issue this year.

So much for the FO consensus huh?  JR gets his way, but it just makes them look all the more dysfunctional to me.

[RTC]

1 hour ago, he gone. said:

AKA - if you're not going to go all in with last or next to last seasons of  Lynn, Grandal, Hendriks, Anderson, Giolito, etc. then you better start making calls around the league and seeing what you can get in return. 

Look on the bright side; for the next two years you’re guaranteed Leury isn’t going anywhere and we get to watch Moncada struggle as he makes $42M! 

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, RTC said:

Look on the bright side; for the next two years you’re guaranteed Leury isn’t going anywhere and we get to watch Moncada struggle as he makes $42M! 

I just went on Spotrac to double check on the contracts I mentioned above and saw the Moncada numbers ... i about fell out of my chair. Holy sh&t. That might be the worst contract of the bunch. $24mm in 2024. TWENTY FOUR MILLION! That would be the highest annual contract in White Sox history ... by like ... a wide margin, no?

I've noted things like attaching Sheets, Burger, and some other midlevel guys to Leury and Joe Kelly if we are looking to have salary relief. Screw that, if you can find ANYONE who has any belief in Moncada at 2 years, $41mm and a $25mm club option you do that in a heartbeat. I can't believe we're paying that Twinkie eating, half assed running to 1st base player that much money. abysmal contract. 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, he gone. said:

I just went on Spotrac to double check on the contracts I mentioned above and saw the Moncada numbers ... i about fell out of my chair. Holy sh&t. That might be the worst contract of the bunch. $24mm in 2024. TWENTY FOUR MILLION! That would be the highest annual contract in White Sox history ... by like ... a wide margin, no?

I've noted things like attaching Sheets, Burger, and some other midlevel guys to Leury and Joe Kelly if we are looking to have salary relief. Screw that, if you can find ANYONE who has any belief in Moncada at 2 years, $41mm and a $25mm club option you do that in a heartbeat. I can't believe we're paying that Twinkie eating, half assed running to 1st base player that much money. abysmal contract. 

Don't think anyone will take him. Just gotta hope he bounces back a bit next year. And sure as hell not in the 2-spot.

[T R U]

17 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Don't think anyone will take him. Just gotta hope he bounces back a bit next year. And sure as hell not in the 2-spot.

Moncada strikes me as someone who would be dumped onto the Dodgers and turn into perennial monster.

[he gone.]

as much as i am disappointed in moncada, if we're all celebrating up and down Western Ave. next year? He's probably the biggest key alongside health and production of Yaz. Those two guys producing 20 homers each, getting OBP at a .375 clip and running up pitch counts is huge. They are the key to this team. I've said that a ton and stick by it. I hope they both have great years and will be cheering them on. Let's hope we find a manager than can light that fire. 

[kitekrazy]

5 hours ago, T R U said:

Moncada strikes me as someone who would be dumped onto the Dodgers and turn into perennial monster.

In return the Sox get the Dodgers really expensive bad contracts.

[T R U]

16 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

In return the Sox get the Dodgers really expensive bad contracts.

We already have one of ‘em, why not keep it going

[wegner]

1 minute ago, T R U said:

We already have one of ‘em, why not keep it going

I'm still hoping to flip Pollock for another bad contract with 2 years left...and so on...and so on.  Let's see how long we can stretch out the suckiness of that Kimbrel trade.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, wegner said:

I'm still hoping to flip Pollock for another bad contract with 2 years left...and so on...and so on.  Let's see how long we can stretch out the suckiness of that Kimbrel trade.

Through Madrigal‘s control regardless if he sticks in the MLB or not.

[wegner]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Through Madrigal‘s control regardless if he sticks in the MLB or not.

Sounds like a perfect plan.

[he gone.]

21 hours ago, he gone. said:

based on the trajectory, the spending habits of JR, and the lack of urgency to push chips in an increasingly smaller and smaller "open window" I believe this team will likely not meet any of its goals. I'd be shocked to win a pennant before this whole team is stripped down and torn for parts.

Yah, i'm quoting myself. what of it. haha. 

i actually was thinking about this quote more. Like why are we accepting this is our window? And that it has to close? I hate the sox and JR. I just accept as a fan that "theres no funds" and "attendance is likely to be down" and of course we won't re-up abreu. its f##cked. JR has sat by idly doing absolutely nothing positive for the bulls and sox franchises other than lucking into Jordan and he's made billions off of it. Yet, we have the most legitimate 3-5 year window of our lifetimes and we can't add in RF because we signed joe kelly and leury to bad 2 and 3 year contracts??!! I mean, what? if the margin for error is a few bad, small to mid size contracts then what are we even doing?

 

Honestly, my heart will always be with the sox, but as i age the less i care about this putrid franchise. I moved to TX back in 2014 for a little bit and was in houston when they were turning their crop of Springer, Altuve, etc. into a playoff team for the first time. They went to the WC in 2014, believe missed the playoffs in 2015 and have made the ALCS for every year since 2016. SIX STRAIGHT YEARS. And guess what? Does anybody believe they don't have a real chance at 3-5 more straight years? I watched those teams when i didn't have mlb package and they were fun. I came home eventually and we were in the midst of our rebuild that was slowly beginning to look like the astros. guys coming up, hahn saying things like NOT being mired in mediocrity, having a sustainable model, etc. i believed, bought in, bought season tickets, etc. etc. and we sit here now watching Harper hit homers, Machado lead the Padres to the NLCS and sox fans are stuck at home twiddling are thumbs on a message board talking about if we can sign Abreu, a guy who's number is likely to be retired and hell, with 2-3 more years and a WS probalby would have a statue in the staidum ... were talking about if we can resign him on a team friendly deal because we've spent too much money on Leury garcia and joe kelly. get the F#ck outta here. We haven't even won one damn playoff series and we're closing the window and stopping the spending. this team, front office, and players are the definition of mired in mediocrity. 

 

As a sox fan, this offseason is do or die for me. change the game in the front office, or lose a fan. 

[SCCWS]

23 hours ago, fathom said:

Really hope he goes to Marlins or Astros or Brewers.  Would hate to see him on Guardians or Cubs.

How about Tampa Bay?

[kitekrazy]

On 10/18/2022 at 5:15 PM, wegner said:

I'm still hoping to flip Pollock for another bad contract with 2 years left...and so on...and so on.  Let's see how long we can stretch out the suckiness of that Kimbrel trade.

They can make up for by signing Kimbrel next season with Tony's blessing.  Gotta strengthen that bullpen. Quantity and quality are so confused.

[greg775]

On 10/19/2022 at 8:40 AM, he gone. said:

Yah, i'm quoting myself. what of it. haha. 

i actually was thinking about this quote more. Like why are we accepting this is our window? And that it has to close? I hate the sox and JR. I just accept as a fan that "theres no funds" and "attendance is likely to be down" and of course we won't re-up abreu. its f##cked. JR has sat by idly doing absolutely nothing positive for the bulls and sox franchises other than lucking into Jordan and he's made billions off of it. Yet, we have the most legitimate 3-5 year window of our lifetimes and we can't add in RF because we signed joe kelly and leury to bad 2 and 3 year contracts??!! I mean, what? if the margin for error is a few bad, small to mid size contracts then what are we even doing?

 

Honestly, my heart will always be with the sox, but as i age the less i care about this putrid franchise. I moved to TX back in 2014 for a little bit and was in houston when they were turning their crop of Springer, Altuve, etc. into a playoff team for the first time. They went to the WC in 2014, believe missed the playoffs in 2015 and have made the ALCS for every year since 2016. SIX STRAIGHT YEARS. And guess what? Does anybody believe they don't have a real chance at 3-5 more straight years? I watched those teams when i didn't have mlb package and they were fun. I came home eventually and we were in the midst of our rebuild that was slowly beginning to look like the astros. guys coming up, hahn saying things like NOT being mired in mediocrity, having a sustainable model, etc. i believed, bought in, bought season tickets, etc. etc. and we sit here now watching Harper hit homers, Machado lead the Padres to the NLCS and sox fans are stuck at home twiddling are thumbs on a message board talking about if we can sign Abreu, a guy who's number is likely to be retired and hell, with 2-3 more years and a WS probalby would have a statue in the staidum ... were talking about if we can resign him on a team friendly deal because we've spent too much money on Leury garcia and joe kelly. get the F#ck outta here. We haven't even won one damn playoff series and we're closing the window and stopping the spending. this team, front office, and players are the definition of mired in mediocrity. 

 

As a sox fan, this offseason is do or die for me. change the game in the front office, or lose a fan. 

The Sox frankly should never be one of those teams with a "window." Not all clubs with money and big city status operate the tank/rebuild way. I'd say the odds of the Sox winning a title in the next 5 years are zero. So if I'm right that means one WS appearance in 22 years. Wow.

[greg775]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:47 PM, he gone. said:

as much as i am disappointed in moncada, if we're all celebrating up and down Western Ave. next year? He's probably the biggest key alongside health and production of Yaz. Those two guys producing 20 homers each, getting OBP at a .375 clip and running up pitch counts is huge. They are the key to this team. I've said that a ton and stick by it. I hope they both have great years and will be cheering them on. Let's hope we find a manager than can light that fire. 

If Moncada wasn't a great fielder I'd express great disdain at this post. But he definitely is not a reliable hitter. He kind of gets a free pass from many on this board considering his ineptitude at the plate