13 minutes ago, spiderman said:

Sheets has to be an occasional guy off the bench. He has some power, played ok, but he is a serviceable piece off the bench. Engel, assuming he is not a free agent, can fill out out the bench, but they need two starters. There is no way they can offer up Eloy as a serious LF.

If over the course of a full season Sheets is a .715 OPS guy, he has no permanent place on a big league bench. He can’t play the OF any more and his only positions are 1b and DH. His main utility would be that you could stash him at Charlotte and have him available as a replacement level player when your DH or 1B get hurt.

He did put up a .785 or so OPS after he came back from the minor leagues and tried to go the other way against the shift less. That is a tolerable 1b and fringey starter at that spot. What happens when the hitting coach stops telling guys who can pull the ball for HR to hit the ball on the ground to beat the shift? I dunno. I’m not sure he’s serviceable.

Engel has one more year of arbitration eligibility left. He was paid $2 million this year, and salaries usually go up a little in arbitration so he’s probably available at about $2.75 million if you want him. However, that is more than he would get if he was a free agent coming off this past year. With the obvious money crunch the White Sox are facing, it seems likely they will non tender him. But, that does leave them a need for a part time backup OF.

Will the Sox sign Jose to a new deal?

Will Eloy be traded to make room for a new LF, which allows Vaughn and Abreu to man 1B/DH?

Maybe Vaughn traded to fill holes? 

 

Sounds like this is already done behind the scenes. 

Quite a different scenario from the last time he was up for free agency and just said he would be staying here to win no matter what.  Have the Sox just made it clear to him that he will not be signed or is Jose ready to move on because he thinks this team does not have the talent to win?

Ive been busy and not fully caught up but what could have happened to where the Sox wouldn't keep their hat in the ring (even if they had no interest in resigning him) for Abreu's sake?

If this is indeed true, something happened between  Jose and the Sox.  

This is a club that allegedly didn't offer Rodon a QO because they wanted to do right by him.

 

Scroll to the bottom to the "Around the league" bullets:

Quote

The White Sox loved having Jose Abreu the past nine years, and he has been nothing but a class act and valuable hitter, but they plan to part ways with him. Simply, they need to shake up their team, and are making virtually everyone but Dylan Cease and Andrew Vaughn available in trades.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2022/10/09/2022-mlb-award-predictions-aaron-judge-mvp-cy-young-rookie-picks/8221158001/

Total 100% White Sox move.

Remember that time the Sox let Buerhle walk, but kept Konerko around?

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sounds like this is already done behind the scenes. 

I'm in denial about it, he's coming back! 

If Jose got no Sox offer I hope he blasts Hahn, LaRussa, Jerry and the whole organization. He's a Sox legend possibly being kicked out the door. Still productive, was the Sox best regular this season. Not bringing him back should be mocked throughout the league. Some contending team will sign him, start him at first and bat him third or fifth and not think twice about it. Infuriates me.

14 hours ago, joejoesox said:

Will the Sox sign Jose to a new deal?

Will Eloy be traded to make room for a new LF, which allows Vaughn and Abreu to man 1B/DH?

Maybe Vaughn traded to fill holes? 

 

Abreu unofficially officially gone. He sent a thank you to the fans and organization. Bad move, he’d be the perfect DH against lefties 

Just now, AJ'S Cousin said:

Abreu unofficially officially gone. He sent a thank you to the fans and organization. Bad move, he’d be the perfect DH against lefties 

 

Just now, AJ'S Cousin said:

Abreu unofficially officially gone. He sent a thank you to the fans and organization. Bad move, he’d be the perfect DH against lefties 

 

Just now, AJ'S Cousin said:

Abreu unofficially officially gone. He sent a thank you to the fans and organization. Bad move, he’d be the perfect DH against lefties 

Also, Cease and Vaughn have been designated as untouchable, especially with Abreu now gone. I think Jimenez and Sheets will be alternating as DH’s and left Field. 

We need to sign Andrus as a second baseman utility guy. Need to sign Conforto to play right field and sign Cueto. 

12 hours ago, wegner said:

Quite a different scenario from the last time he was up for free agency and just said he would be staying here to win no matter what.  Have the Sox just made it clear to him that he will not be signed or is Jose ready to move on because he thinks this team does not have the talent to win?

Probably both. 

PS we also need another starter, I believe either Kopech or Giolitto or both might be gone 

 

 

Angles not discussed:

 

1.  The Sox didn't slap a QO on Rodon because they wanted to treat him right, which cost them a comp pick.  But won't keep their mouth shut (this is absolutely free) and give Abreu some major leverage while he is negotiating his next deal? 

If all of this is true, Jose did something Jerry did not like.  What could have happened to go from golden child to not even getting the respect of a no-comment until he signs?  

 

2.  If this was Over-Over, it likely was done by July, so why didn't we trade him?  The Sox had a 1% chance of a World Series on deadline day.  Or at least hear grumblings of him being available? 

 

Nothing will surprise me with our ownership and front office but neither of these situations make any sense, so I have a feeling this is not over yet. 

Edited October 11, 20223 yr by GREEDY

24 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

Angles not discussed:

 

1.  The Sox didn't slap a QO on Rodon because they wanted to treat him right, which cost them a comp pick.  But won't keep their mouth shut (this is absolutely free) and give Abreu some major leverage while he is negotiating his next deal? 

If all of this is true, Jose did something Jerry did not like.  What could have happened to go from golden child to not even getting the respect of a no-comment until he signs?  

 

2.  If this was Over-Over, it likely was done by July, so why didn't we trade him?  The Sox had a 1% chance of a World Series on deadline day.  Or at least hear grumblings of him being available? 

 

Nothing will surprise me with our ownership and front office but neither of these situations make any sense, so I have a feeling this is not over yet. 

Little Ricky and Tantrum Tony weren’t about to admit that they did a bad job by trading away guys at the deadline even if it helped them this offseason. If you’re in a culture surrounded by yes men who say you did everything right, you have to continue saying things are going to plan even when they aren’t.

Freeing up money for Chapman. 

7 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Freeing up money for Chapman. 

Chapman and Diekman would be known as the 7 walks per 9 brothers. 

4 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

 

 

I can't read these without wondering if we really do have some sort of a schism in the Sox front office.

12 hours ago, greg775 said:

If Jose got no Sox offer I hope he blasts Hahn, LaRussa, Jerry and the whole organization. He's a Sox legend possibly being kicked out the door. Still productive, was the Sox best regular this season. Not bringing him back should be mocked throughout the league. Some contending team will sign him, start him at first and bat him third or fifth and not think twice about it. Infuriates me.

Just my opinion, Jose isn't a 4 war player. Don't know how they figure WAR. Putting up an .825 OPS and being a mediocre defensive

1B doesn't cut it. His 60+ walks a year do not make up for 15 homers as a 1B. He has been a helluva player for a long time. But it's

time to cut bait.

 

30 minutes ago, zisk said:

Just my opinion, Jose isn't a 4 war player. Don't know how they figure WAR. Putting up an .825 OPS and being a mediocre defensive

1B doesn't cut it. His 60+ walks a year do not make up for 15 homers as a 1B. He has been a helluva player for a long time. But it's

time to cut bait.

 

Well he is a 4 WAR player; it is a statistic, not an opinion. It’s like saying you have the opinion that he didn’t hit over .300 this year.

13 hours ago, greg775 said:

If Jose got no Sox offer I hope he blasts Hahn, LaRussa, Jerry and the whole organization. He's a Sox legend possibly being kicked out the door. Still productive, was the Sox best regular this season. Not bringing him back should be mocked throughout the league. Some contending team will sign him, start him at first and bat him third or fifth and not think twice about it. Infuriates me.

As much as I would love any player who leaves the Sox by trade or their own will to totally blast this horrific front office, I think Jose is too classy to do that and will simply take the high road. However, I do think that even though the FO did not offer him a contract, Jose was tired of the Sox organizational direction and was probably already planning on finding a new team to play for next year.

He knows at 36 his number of productive years are limited and I'm sure he wants to play on a good team and have a chance to win a WS ring before he retires. Even though his power numbers have fallen off, he would be a big improvement for many teams, especially even some of the playoff teams. For example, Jose would be a huge improvement on the current Astros team in the playoffs over their current first baseman Yuli Gurriel. 

13 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Probably both. 

Jose might finish his career in FL. Miami might sign him. Tampa is too cheep.

On 10/5/2022 at 10:34 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

It's funny you brought this up. I spoke with a member of the mainstream media who has been covering Chicago's baseball teams for years. They told me Hahn is furious that the Cubs basically have been laughing at him for getting Eloy and supposedly they are privately telling other teams the same thing. The thinking is like you said, the Cubs knew his limitations and sold him off to whomever would take him.

To me his issue is he has to lose weight and gain flexibility. Just look at videos of him from 2020, he's gotten huge muscle-wise.

The Sox still get the last laugh over the loser Cubs on this trade, because we also got Dylan Cease. Even with Eloy being injured so much and not living up to 2019 season, we are still light years ahead in this trade with Cease as our pitcher over Quintana. Hahn obviously hasn't down well with his trades, but this is one of his few good ones.

You are right though, Eloy has gotten to big and fat. He needs to lose some serious weight in the offseason. He also needs to work on getting more flexible through some Yoga or some other quality flexibility program.

I am still confident and hopeful that if Eloy can come to spring training in much better shape and lighter, as well as being the full time (not allowed to have a glove) DH, then he can still be a big run producer for the Sox. On the other hand, if Eloy comes to Spring training in 2023 at the weight he played at this year and with his lack of flexibility he displayed, then I think he will always be capable of getting hurt, even as a full time DH...just because of his inability to run the bases without getting injured. In fact, if Eloy doesn't do anything to improve himself and comes to spring training in the same bad shape as this year, then the Sox should simply trade him before the season even starts. The Sox wouldn't need a player that just showed the organization he was too unmotivated and lazy to care enough to get better in the off-season, so he could hopefully play most of season healthy.