Where will Eloy play in 23?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 10/28/2022 at 11:16 AM, Balta1701 said:

Other people have said this so this is not an original idea. Oscar breaking camp with the big league team in 2023, after not getting a shot in the big leagues down the stretch in 2022 when he had at least established himself as past the level of AA talent and the team kept telling itself it was competitive despite their corner outfield spots being a complete trainwreck...would definitely be a questionable decision. 

I'd rather see the Sox play Colas from the start of the season than double down on forfeiting more games at the beginning of the season like they for the last 2 month of the season. If playing him from the start means they actually realized they made a mistake and seek to rectify it, that's a step in the right direction at least.

It's just too bad they can't admit mistakes in a lot of areas so I would suspect they will wait for the extra year of control.

[A-Train to 35th]

On 10/26/2022 at 12:00 PM, Tnetennba said:

You know what I hate?  Seeing all of Eloy’s offensive potential go to waste sitting on the IL.  Sorry Eloy, but DH is your future if you want a long and healthy playing career.  

The man runs down to first base and gets injured. A smart GM would insist he plays at DH, then when he puts up numbers trade him as fast as you can before he gets injured, or worse if he does play LF of injuring our CF.

[A-Train to 35th]

On 10/26/2022 at 6:25 PM, tray said:

Eloy has stated emphatically that he does not want to strictly be a DH.   There are teams other than the WSox that will use a player like Eloy in the OF. Obviously not a direct comparison  but Judge is 6'7" and plays OF because he hits (at least during the regular season) .  Eloy  has trade value and would look good in a Yankee uniform if they decide to let Judge walk. So perhaps Eloy is a Yankee next season. I think after they got swept and Donaldson was so bad, they might also consider trading for Moncada.

Terrible comparison, Judge plays multiple positions in the OF and doesn't look uncoordinated doing it.  But. I hope you're right......How bout offering Eloy for Gleyber Torres and his 4.1 WAR and 526 plate appearances. 

[A-Train to 35th]

On 10/27/2022 at 3:46 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He should. Not many teams are playing service time games anymore And a team that's supposed to be a contender absolutely shouldn't be playing those games any way.

He's a good fielder . He left handed he hits for power. I thought he should've been up at the end of last year to get acclimated to RF at home and to get some experience in a pennant race.

Other's disagreed siting service time of course. Backwards thinking. It's better he get some growing pains out of the way in a season that was going down the tubes or at worst desperately needed defensive and offensive help from the left side and in RF.

So the Sox either feel he wasn't ready or they wanted to wait til May w/e it is to get as much time from him as possible while sacrificing wins .

If you want guys to have 150 game seasons it's best to call them up and let them play and contribute as soon as they can. He's already 24 why f*** with him? He's already lost too much much developmental time to going from Cuba to Japan and to the US. It's fairly amazing he got his act together in one year in the states. He deserves a reward not more " I own and want to make sure I own you as long as possible"  BS.

Exactly, and if we are going to recapture the division every single game will matter so Oscar...come on up.

[A-Train to 35th]

On 10/30/2022 at 7:22 AM, Sarava said:

If memory serves me right, the Sox picked 11th when they took Burger, and there was considered a large drop-off  after the 10th pick.

your memory seems pretty good to me.  

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/draft/baseball-draft.php?yr=2017

 

[tray]

Let's see what Colas does in Spring Training before calling for him to be a starting player on the major league team.

[Balta1701]

7 hours ago, tray said:

Let's see what Colas does in Spring Training before calling for him to be a starting player on the major league team.

If he’s not ready I don’t know how the white Sox field an outfield for the season.  600 PAs for AJ Pollock is not a realistic option. Vaughn, Sheets, and Eloy playing the OF may as well be a white flag. Right now they have 1 OF, Robert, who tends to miss a lot of time, and Pollock who is roughly 1/2 of an OF as he tends to also miss a lot of time and is also coming off an ineffective season.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

If he’s not ready I don’t know how the white Sox field an outfield for the season.  600 PAs for AJ Pollock is not a realistic option. Vaughn, Sheets, and Eloy playing the OF may as well be a white flag. Right now they have 1 OF, Robert, and Pollock who is roughly 1/2 of an OF.

If the White Sox don't acquire a starting caliber OF that complements the teams weaknesses (LH; good vs RHP; at least an average defender) they may as well trade everyone of value. 

[ChiSox59]

7 hours ago, tray said:

Let's see what Colas does in Spring Training before calling for him to be a starting player on the major league team.

I am hopeful that Sox plan is for a Colas / Pollock platoon and to make him earn his spot.  Sign or acquire an OF.  If Colas pushes his way into the mix by May, Pollock goes to bench.  There will be plenty of playing time for all these guys. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

If the White Sox don't acquire a starting caliber OF that complements the teams weaknesses (LH; good vs RHP; at least an average defender) they may as well trade everyone of value. 

Clearly they have to acquire at least 1 warm body. 

If Colas isn’t ready to contribute for most of the season, that isn’t enough, and you and I both know they don’t have the resources to fill several OF spots with actual players

[A-Train to 35th]

7 hours ago, tray said:

Let's see what Colas does in Spring Training before calling for him to be a starting player on the major league team.

He certainly can do no worse than Vaughn, Sheets, Eloy or Leury.  Even if he doesn't hit for a lick, at least we'd have an outfielder that opposing runners would be hesitant about constantly taking extra bases on our first baseman, DH, and utility player.

Edited November 3, 2022 by A-Train to 35th
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[A-Train to 35th]

32 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Clearly they have to acquire at least 1 warm body. 

If Colas isn’t ready to contribute for most of the season, that isn’t enough, and you and I both know they don’t have the resources to fill several OF spots with actual players

If Hahn would have acquired players that actually play the outfield position we might  have a chance, but yes a left-handed warm bodied outfielder should be acquired.

They don't have to be stars, look how many outfielders Atlanta acquired at the trade deadline last year that propelled them into the World Series.  Solar, Duvall, Rosario, and Pederson  are not stars or potential stars but were enough so it can be done.  Instead we acquire old relievers who have past their prime and only play an inning or two before giving up the lead.  We need position players playing the positions that they are accustomed to playing especially when Daryl Boston was in charge of coaching the first baseman to be outfielders.

Edited November 3, 2022 by A-Train to 35th
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[ChiSox59]

34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Clearly they have to acquire at least 1 warm body. 

If Colas isn’t ready to contribute for most of the season, that isn’t enough, and you and I both know they don’t have the resources to fill several OF spots with actual players

They need more than a "warm body, and I don't think they need to fill "several OF spots".  Pollock is a perfectly fine stop gap in LF to Colas, and is actually a great platoon partner for him as he does still hit lefties well.  The price point isn't ideal, but it is what it is.  You have to assume he's on the roster until he's not, and if he's not, Sox suddenly have a few more million to play with.  

You know I want Nimmo.  I doubt the Sox actually get him.  But they need to at least get someone from the next tier of LH hitters - Benintendi, Conforto, Gallo, maybe Brantley though his defense would scare me. 

 

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

They need more than a "warm body, and I don't think they need to fill "several OF spots".  Pollock is a perfectly fine stop gap in LF to Colas, and is actually a great platoon partner for him as he does still hit lefties well.  The price point isn't ideal, but it is what it is.  You have to assume he's on the roster until he's not, and if he's not, Sox suddenly have a few more million to play with.  

You know I want Nimmo.  I doubt the Sox actually get him.  But they need to at least get someone from the next tier of LH hitters - Benintendi, Conforto, Gallo, maybe Brantley though his defense would scare me. 

 

I don't think they need to fill several OF spots, but the post I was replying to specifically said "Lets see what Colas does in Spring Training before calling on him to be a part of the major league team." If that is the case, that Colas doesn't seize an OF spot because he struggles to start the year, or because the coaching staff is down on him, or he gets hurt over the offseason, or whatever the reason is... then the White Sox would be needing an additional OF option beyond the first one. I would agree with you on giving the role to Colas, but the post I was replying to was one saying that we shouldn't do that, so I'm following that discussion point.

If Colas is not ready to go early next year for whatever reason, then the White Sox need at least 2 warm bodies for the OF just to field a team. While this scenario is hopefully unlikely, it is not so far outside the realm of possibility that we can't consider what it would do to the rest of the roster. It is worth noting that if something does happen to one of their starting OFs in Spring Training, then the backup plans are things like Sheets and Eloy out there, which are really bad backup plans. 

[pcq]

On 11/2/2022 at 6:50 PM, A-Train to 35th said:

Exactly, and if we are going to recapture the division every single game will matter so Oscar...come on up.

Oscar is one the few things we have to look forward to along with the new field general. God forbid if Colas and Luis play like stars next year. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:53 PM, tray said:

Let's see what Colas does in Spring Training before calling for him to be a starting player on the major league team.

Oscar Colas :

A+  .311, .369, .475, .845  244 AB

AA .306 , .364, .563,  .928  206 AB

AAA  .387, .424, .645,  1.069 31 AB

Every level he got better . You can throw away AAA if you want since it was just 31 AB but saying Spring Training performance will be the deciding factor given his numbers in the minors seems a little off.

If they had just called him up for the last 2 months of the season you wouldn't have to say what you just did.

In my eyes it would have meant more to have him playing in MLB stadiums getting used to the venues he'll be playing at in the future and facing MLB pitching and playing when it meant something down the stretch. The only positive thing I can say about not bringing him up was that whatever was going on in the Sox dugout ,he wasn't exposed to the malaise.

His minor league numbers were outstanding, AVG, OBP, Slugging and OPS. He would easily become our OFer with the best arm. Sox OFers couldn't throw runners out. They missed cutoff men and their throws to the bases were often off target. Do you really want Sheets and Vaughn in the OF when you can have a guy with a skill set that was tailor made for RF ?

[Sarava]

5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Oscar Colas :

A+  .311, .369, .475, .845  244 AB

AA .306 , .364, .563,  .928  206 AB

AAA  .387, .424, .645,  1.069 31 AB

Every level he got better . You can throw away AAA if you want since it was just 31 AB but saying Spring Training performance will be the deciding factor given his numbers in the minors seems a little off.

If they had just called him up for the last 2 months of the season you wouldn't have to say what you just did.

In my eyes it would have meant more to have him playing in MLB stadiums getting used to the venues he'll be playing at in the future and facing MLB pitching and playing when it meant something down the stretch. The only positive thing I can say about not bringing him up was that whatever was going on in the Sox dugout ,he wasn't exposed to the malaise.

His minor league numbers were outstanding, AVG, OBP, Slugging and OPS. He would easily become our OFer with the best arm. Sox OFers couldn't throw runners out. They missed cutoff men and their throws to the bases were often off target. Do you really want Sheets and Vaughn in the OF when you can have a guy with a skill set that was tailor made for RF ?

I'll defend the Sox on this one. A-ball to MLB in one season would be a ridiculous jump and probably irresponsible handling of Colas. If they do that and it fails, then we all bash them for rushing and ruining their prized prospect. Colas could come up here and go 1 for 47 with 28 strikeouts. Then what?

I'm on board with the idea of letting him earn a spot in spring training. Call Pollock the starter for now (assuming he chooses to come back) and if Colas takes the job from him at some point, then awesome. And the Sox still need to fill the other corner outfield spot.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Sarava said:

I'll defend the Sox on this one. A-ball to MLB in one season would be a ridiculous jump and probably irresponsible handling of Colas. If they do that and it fails, then we all bash them for rushing and ruining their prized prospect. Colas could come up here and go 1 for 47 with 28 strikeouts. Then what?

I'm on board with the idea of letting him earn a spot in spring training. Call Pollock the starter for now (assuming he chooses to come back) and if Colas takes the job from him at some point, then awesome. And the Sox still need to fill the other corner outfield spot.

Yup, I think you start the season with Pollock as the “starter” in LF and then quickly pivot to Colas if/when things go off the rails.  Definitely need to add a LH corner OF who is capable of playing RF in this hypothetical.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yup, I think you start the season with Pollock as the “starter” in LF and then quickly pivot to Colas if/when things go off the rails.  Definitely need to add a LH corner OF who is capable of playing RF in this hypothetical.

This is the way forward.  Nimmo should be plan A, B and C.  Assuming that bidding exits the Sox comfort level, Conforto, Gallo, and to a lesser extent Benintendi and Brantley should be all be the next tier.  They have options.  

[Bob Sacamano]

21 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

This is the way forward.  Nimmo should be plan A, B and C.  Assuming that bidding exits the Sox comfort level, Conforto, Gallo, and to a lesser extent Benintendi and Brantley should be all be the next tier.  They have options.  

Assume? I would anticipate haha

I do like the other options though.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Bob Sacamano

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yup, I think you start the season with Pollock as the “starter” in LF and then quickly pivot to Colas if/when things go off the rails.  Definitely need to add a LH corner OF who is capable of playing RF in this hypothetical.

Assuming they let Engel go, who is the backup OF to start the season in this setup? Leury?

[Vote4Pedro]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Assuming they let Engel go, who is the backup OF to start the season in this setup? Leury?

Wish they could throw in Leury into a trade this offseason somehow to get him off the roster 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Vote4Pedro said:

Wish they could throw in Leury into a trade this offseason somehow to get him off the roster 

If you want him off The roster you have to buy out his contract or take a worse one back.

Remember though, if they got rid of him, they’d immediately be looking for another backup to replace him. Maybe getting him away from the Menechino philosophy will help.

[ChiSox59]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Assuming they let Engel go, who is the backup OF to start the season in this setup? Leury?

Between Leury, Sheets, AV and Eloy, they should be able to cover the 15 or so games until Colas takes Sheets spot on the roster.  Mendick and Romy can both play a corner if needed too, and will likely be on the roster.  Doubt Mark Payton survives the offseason on the 40 man, but he's out of options so could let him break with the club too if needed.

You could also just throw Cespedes in the fire if you had to to cover a couple weeks. Honestly, he won't be much worse than 2022 Engel. 

They have options.  Its likely a month at most until Colas is in Chicago. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by ChiSox59

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Between Leury, Sheets, AV and Eloy, they should be able to cover the 15 or so games until Colas takes Sheets spot on the roster.  Mendick and Romy can both play a corner if needed too, and will likely be on the roster.  Doubt Mark Payton survives the offseason on the 40 man, but he's out of options so could let him break with the club too if needed.

You could also just throw Cespedes in the fire if you had to to cover a couple weeks. Honestly, he won't be much worse than 2022 Engel. 

They have options.  Its likely a month at most until Colas is in Chicago. 

I feel like we know the end result of this plan, it’s posts in mid April about how no one could have foreseen our outfield being a disaster like this.