8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Given how much relievers were getting, 8 million would have seemed way too low

He gave more money to an injured Joe Kelly per year and twice the term.

18 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

This actually gives me more hope. 8 million really tampered my excitement response if that was all he could attract. Good news.

Yeah it's weird to say, but there was no reason for him to sign for 1/8 right now since he could get close to that in March if he had no current suitors. 12 makes more sense. 

Edited November 28, 20223 yr by Buehrle>Wood

20 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

This actually gives me more hope. 8 million really tampered my excitement response if that was all he could attract. Good news.

If anythjing, it tells me the White Sox have to drastically overpay to get a huge question mark to sign.

23 minutes ago, fathom said:

Given how much relievers were getting, 8 million would have seemed way too low

I blame Morossi for saying more than $8 million. Little did he know, it's 50% more than $8 million. Imagine if he said Judge would get more than $200 million and it ended up being a $300 million deal. 

11 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I blame Morossi for saying more than $8 million. Little did he know, it's 50% more than $8 million. Imagine if he said Judge would get more than $200 million and it ended up being a $300 million deal. 

I'm sure other teams were in on Clevinger, but $12 million seems expensive for a bounce back candidate. Guys like Heaney and Quintana should be licking their chops now. 

1 hour ago, T R U said:

He really started to fold the last month of the season. If were going to spend 8-10 million on an arm for the back of the rotation I would rather go with the younger, upside player.

I found it totally unsurprising that Cueto would lose some steam at the end of the year. His arm hadn’t thrown that many innings since 2016. Of course he wasn’t conditioned for 150 innings.

The fact that he got to that many innings last year could leave him better conditioned to throw 150+ next year, if other things in his body don’t break down.

1 minute ago, steveno89 said:

I'm sure other teams were in on Clevinger, but $12 million seems expensive for a bounce back candidate. Guys like Heaney and Quintana should be licking their chops now. 

 This is where I am at. at 8-10, this was a great deal...once you get 12 or more...and it shouldn't be a prove it deal anymore. Let's hope he gets 3 WAR and its good value 

2 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I'm sure other teams were in on Clevinger, but $12 million seems expensive for a bounce back candidate. Guys like Heaney and Quintana should be licking their chops now. 

Give me Clevinger over either of those guys any day 

23 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If anythjing, it tells me the White Sox have to drastically overpay to get a huge question mark to sign.

It may also indicate that Clevenger thinks the Sox aren't quite as hopeless as some fans seem to believe.

29 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If anythjing, it tells me the White Sox have to drastically overpay to get a huge question mark to sign.

Define drastically. Most outlets were projecting around $10mm deal. $12mm is around $10mm. 

7 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Give me Clevinger over either of those guys any day 

Over Heaney? Sure, Clevinger looks to have a good shot at being better.

Quintana was really good last year. If he's found a little of what he had back in his Chicago days, he could be a bargain on a 2 year $30 million deal. 

I have the Sox at $170M, then add 6.5M for Harrison and Pollack buyouts. Add Benintendi at $14M and we would be at $191M, still wondering about a 2Bman and assuming Colas is on the team.

14.3 WAR over 6 seasons = approximately 2.5 WAR per season = approximately $16-18mm value per season. 

Now, some of those are skewed because of great seasons. So, let's discount a bit for age and recent results. Add a bit back since you're  getting an under market DURATION deal (aka the pitcher is taking the risk) plus add a bit more back for being 2 years removed from TJS and settle on 1.5 WAR this season? Does that seem fair? 

What does 1.5 WAR equal in terms of a salary. 

About $12mm. 

3 minutes ago, bear_brian said:

I have the Sox at $170M, then add 6.5M for Harrison and Pollack buyouts. Add Benintendi at $14M and we would be at $191M, still wondering about a 2Bman and assuming Colas is on the team.

I really don't feel like Harrison and Pollock buyouts should be counted for 2023.  Its already been paid.  The season doesn't start for over 4 months.  

Colas won't be on the team until May, but I guess Sheets can play LF/RF for a month until he arrives.  Not ideal; certainly would prefer the Sox bring in 2 OFs so we're not basically forced to have Cespedes be our 4th OF. 

the sox will think this is cheap and that makes me nervous. They constantly say to themselves "I'd rather pay $12 million for Clevinger than $17 for Bassitt" or whatever and then they'll have ended up paying way more for the production they get than the team that signed the "market rate" option.

36 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If anythjing, it tells me the White Sox have to drastically overpay to get a huge question mark to sign.

We’re missing a lot of scouting information that teams may be relying on for his evaluation. 

14 minutes ago, zisk said:

It may also indicate that Clevenger thinks the Sox aren't quite as hopeless as some fans seem to believe.

idk, Team D is still atrocious. Both IF and OF and behind the plate. 

1 minute ago, bmags said:

the sox will think this is cheap and that makes me nervous. They constantly say to themselves "I'd rather pay $12 million for Clevinger than $17 for Bassitt" or whatever and then they'll have ended up paying way more for the production they get than the team that signed the "market rate" option.

The "I'd rather pay $12M for Clevinger than $17M for Bassitt" bit completely ignores the other 4-5 years a $17M for Bassitt.  That's why they prefer it. 

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

the sox will think this is cheap and that makes me nervous. They constantly say to themselves "I'd rather pay $12 million for Clevinger than $17 for Bassitt" or whatever and then they'll have ended up paying way more for the production they get than the team that signed the "market rate" option.

Bassitt is probably going to get $100 million in his next contract, maybe more.

Just now, joejoesox said:

idk, Team D is still atrocious. Both IF and OF and behind the plate. 

Its already far better than it was last year just removing AV from the OF and moving him to 1B.  Plenty of work left to be done to improve the defense, but the Sox defense simply isn't going to be a strength any time soon.  Got to hope Robert can get back to being a top tier defender though; he simply was not good out there in 21/22, and he has the talent to be one of the best. 

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

The "I'd rather pay $12M for Clevinger than $17M for Bassitt" bit completely ignores the other 4-5 years a $17M for Bassitt.  That's why they prefer it. 

Because next year they'll totally fill it internally and not do the same song and dance.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Bassitt is probably going to get $100 million in his next contract, maybe more.

lol no

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Because next year they'll totally fill it internally and not do the same song and dance.

I hear ya, but comping a 1/$12M to a 5-6 year deal at $17-20M is sorta....not relevant at all.  

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I really don't feel like Harrison and Pollock buyouts should be counted for 2023.  Its already been paid.  The season doesn't start for over 4 months.  

Colas won't be on the team until May, but I guess Sheets can play LF/RF for a month until he arrives.  Not ideal; certainly would prefer the Sox bring in 2 OFs so we're not basically forced to have Cespedes be our 4th OF. 

Not ideal. I’ll say. This team is not unfucked until they fix the fucking roster ffs. God dammit Sheets in the outfield again? Then we have the  continued list of *reasons* why first baseman are playing all over the diamond again, and why it has to be that way.

Edited November 28, 20223 yr by Chick Mercedes

Just now, Chick Mercedes said:

Not ideal. I’ll say. This team is not unfucked until they fix the fucking roster ffs. Hod dammit Sheets in the outfield again? Then we have the  continued list of *reasons* why first baseman are playing all over the diamond again, and why it has to be that way.

Like I said, I'd prefer they sign 2 OFs.  A good one - ideally, Nimmo, but that ship has likely sailed.  So one of Conforto/Gallo/Bellinger/Benintendi is the next tier.  Then grab one of Naquin, or Profar, or even Kiermaier as the 4th OF, and someone to fill in until Colas proves he's ready.

But I think we at least have to face the realistic possibility that just 1 one OF is added, in which case Sheets is going to have to play some OF until Colas arrives.