39 minutes ago, fathom said:

I put a lot of value in Hendriks, and it’s why I don’t think Mets are a good fit because of Carrasco likely being the best you could get for him.  I still think there’s a very real chance Hendriks goes to Toronto for Jansen.

Why do you think this?

12 minutes ago, T R U said:

I don't think that's an option at all. Again, why would the Sox entertain the idea of trading Liam if it wasn't purely to reduce payroll? There is no logical reason behind trading him and then spending his money on what, a 2nd baseman? Makes no sense.

If hes traded, I think you see him go for prospects and his payroll isn't spent back into the MLB team.

Not saying either are great players by any means, but we don’t have a 2B and it’s very questionable whether Grandal can catch any kind of significant amount anymore. Escobar and McCann would definitely fill rolls we likely aren’t going to spend $ on in free agency. If Hahn could get those 2 AND prospects we’ve reallocated bullpen $ to fill needs while also improving the future of the team. 
 

Something like Liam and Luery for McCann, Escobar, Mauricio, and Butto (or pick your 2 favorite Mets prospects not named Baty, Alvarez and Parada) works out $ wise for both clubs and gives the Sox minor league depth we desperately need. 
 

And I realize this may not line up with the front office is trying to do, just my opinion on what a pretty good move would be. I’m not a fan of clinging on to an older closer for a team that isn’t going to win a World Series. If Liam’s elbow issue gets worse there’s a possibility that the Sox paid a closer a bunch of $ to never even win a playoff series(still a strong possibility without injury). If you aren’t a legit WS contender then cash in on value while you can is my thought, but I could see why some wouldn’t want to

Just now, GREEDY said:

Cohen or Eppler probably read here that our most intelligent fans were demanding the most valuable Met (by a large margin) and decided to just pay Ottavino instead.  

Yep that's Cohen for you. Pay now and if you have any thoughts of dumping salary figure it out later.

We keep hearing they want to lessen the luxury tax hit but they keep on spending.

5 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Not saying either are great players by any means, but we don’t have a 2B and it’s very questionable whether Grandal can catch any kind of significant amount anymore. Escobar and McCann would definitely fill rolls we likely aren’t going to spend $ on in free agency. If Hahn could get those 2 AND prospects we’ve reallocated bullpen $ to fill needs while also improving the future of the team. 
 

Something like Liam and Luery for McCann, Escobar, Mauricio, and Butto (or pick your 2 favorite Mets prospects not named Baty, Alvarez and Parada) works out $ wise for both clubs and gives the Sox minor league depth we desperately need. 
 

And I realize this may not line up with the front office is trying to do, just my opinion on what a pretty good move would be. I’m not a fan of clinging on to an older closer for a team that isn’t going to win a World Series. If Liam’s elbow issue gets worse there’s a possibility that the Sox paid a closer a bunch of $ to never even win a playoff series(still a strong possibility without injury). If you aren’t a legit WS contender then cash in on value while you can is my thought, but I could see why some wouldn’t want to

Sox could also take Carrasco for more prospects and turn around and trade Giolito

 

I'm a Blade Tidwell fan so he's a guy I'd target. 

 

If they traded Hendriks/Giolito for prospects, Garcia to balance salary and got back McCann/Carrasco/Escobar that is just moving around a similar amount of money and also reloading the minors a bit while still fielding a competitive team in 2023. 

Edited December 20, 20223 yr by Jack Parkman

trying to fit that hendriks will include toronto in no trade clause because it would put him back under the english monarchy

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why do you think this?

Because it makes a lot of sense for both teams and their rumored plans this offseason.  

2 hours ago, fathom said:

Thoughts on McCann and Mauricio for Hendriks?

WOW THAT WOULD BE TERRIBLE.  yOU SHOULD GET A FGIRM TOP 100 PROSPECT FOR hENDRIKS without TAKING ON A TERRIBLE CONTRACT. non caps... sorry (work) lol

What is the fascination with James McCann. Especially if you think sending Gio the other way is a good idea.

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Because it makes a lot of sense for both teams and their rumored plans this offseason.  

Not sure why acquiring another catcher makes sense for us though. Unless we have a suitor for a grandal dump

Just now, Dick Allen said:

What is the fascination with James McCann. Especially if you think sending Gio the other way is a good idea.

I don't know either. McCann has been HORRIBLE since he signed that contract. A team with a hard salary cap they're right on the border of should not be taking any more dead money.

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What is the fascination with James McCann. Especially if you think sending Gio the other way is a good idea.

Probably nothing happening now with the Mets anyway since they just resigned Adam Ottavino for 2 year. $14.5 M.

Just now, almagest said:

I don't know either. McCann has been HORRIBLE since he signed that contract. A team with a hard salary cap they're right on the border of should not be taking any more dead money.

Not only that, the contract was backloaded. If the Mets want to get rid of him, they are going to have to eat a ton of the contract and get s%*# back. 

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Not sure why acquiring another catcher makes sense for us though. Unless we have a suitor for a grandal dump

They’re not confident that Grandal can stay healthy. If he can, they use him to play 1B and DH as well.  Everyone that I trust that has good info has suggested the Sox are after a starting catcher this offseason.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Not only that, the contract was backloaded. If the Mets want to get rid of him, they are going to have to eat a ton of the contract and get s%*# back. 

Even in that case the Sox have no business taking him back, as they already have Grandal, Zavala and Perez who can give them what McCann does and probably more. That is also not a compliment to any of those players.

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Not sure why acquiring another catcher makes sense for us though. Unless we have a suitor for a grandal dump

Certain factions believe Grandal is finished. But you have to go with Grandal. He taking up too much salary to keep adding to the position monetarily for what could end up terrible production.

Just have to hope whatever he's doing in the off season works  and then be free of him.

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Certain factions believe Grandal is finished. But you have to go with Grandal. He taking up too much salary to keep adding to the position monetarily for what could end up terrible production.

Just have to hope whatever he's doing in the off season works  and then be free of him.

If he truly has several displaced disks in his back and a surgery recommendation, I think I have to change my mind and assume that he's not going to be able to play, at least in lineup construction. It might well be more important to have an additional catcher who can be on the roster in April and potentially last the whole year in that case, as there's a good chance that any amount of physical conditioning might not be enough.

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Certain factions believe Grandal is finished. But you have to go with Grandal. He taking up too much salary to keep adding to the position monetarily for what could end up terrible production.

Just have to hope whatever he's doing in the off season works  and then be free of him.

I don’t think they want to risk having to play Seby and Perez 75 pct of the season if Grandal’s back is still bad.

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

They’re not confident that Grandal can stay healthy. If he can, they use him to play 1B and DH as well.  Everyone that I trust that has good info has suggested the Sox are after a starting catcher this offseason.

If he ends up not being able to stay healthy, so be it, but there are plenty of other areas of need. I guess we are saying even if the Sox are going after catching we don't like it.

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If he ends up not being able to stay healthy, so be it, but there are plenty of other areas of need. I guess we are saying even if the Sox are going after catching we don't like it.

Personally I'd say it as "If there is really a zero % chance of Grandal being a tolerable player next year because his back is toast, that makes it even harder for the White Sox to have a conceivable route to compete with the Guardians let alone the Astros and the NL East, and that makes a strategy of signing guys to anything other than 1 year deals look far worse."

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If he truly has several displaced disks in his back and a surgery recommendation, I think I have to change my mind and assume that he's not going to be able to play, at least in lineup construction. It might well be more important to have an additional catcher who can be on the roster in April and potentially last the whole year in that case, as there's a good chance that any amount of physical conditioning might not be enough.

Grandal himself has said he’s feeling much better though. Definitely a take it for what it’s worth mentality, but he literally cannot be any worse. 

Just now, Balta1701 said:

If he truly has several displaced disks in his back and a surgery recommendation, I think I have to change my mind and assume that he's not going to be able to play, at least in lineup construction. It might well be more important to have an additional catcher who can be on the roster in April and potentially last the whole year in that case, as there's a good chance that any amount of physical conditioning might not be enough.

From what I understand so far he's been withstand the rigors that Goodman from the Black Hawks is putting him through.

He's been at it for a while. I know that's not much compared to catching and hitting but I'll just have to trust thatZavala and Perez will be useful.

The Sox have loaded up on minor league piece for C and OF so far. Maybe that's an indication the we aren't going to try so hard to find depth though I still think a 4th OF is a definite need . Not trusting Leury for that nor any of Payton, Reyes or Hamilton.

I look at teams like the Astros and Cleveland who hit their catchers 9th, prioritize defense, and spend their money elsewhere as pretty good models.  Personally, if I was looking at the number one issue facing the Sox in 2023-2024, it’s starting pitching depth.  They have like one guy behind their top 5, and then 3 of those guys are FA at the end of ‘23. Any asset we can use to get a cromulent catcher would probably be better spent on potential starters.

uh, ok I think I talked myself into jansen.

The post about carlos perez and how his caught stealing rate went from near 50% to 28% in AAA this year kinda freaked me out with how bad this pickoff rule stuff may affect our staff.

Jansen was top 15 in Baseball Prospectus' Throwing metric for catchers (combining their all their AA metrics) and Top 10 in blocking.

On the other hand, you might say that because white sox pitchers were SO bad at keeping runners close or bothering to speed up their delivery, that we have already dealt with the downsides of this rule and we will see the least drop off. 

Maybe danny jansen will suck after moving to pitchers who seem unaware that there are baserunners.

But probably not.

Anyway fun thing about Jansen is framing hates his numbers so Grandal rates above him. 

 

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Personally I'd say it as "If there is really a zero % chance of Grandal being a tolerable player next year because his back is toast, that makes it even harder for the White Sox to have a conceivable route to compete with the Guardians let alone the Astros and the NL East, and that makes a strategy of signing guys to anything other than 1 year deals look far worse."

Which is why I didn't want McCann and his 2 years even if the Mets ate significant money. The fit with the Mets was sketchy to begin with and even more so now that they've resigned Ottavino.

Yes we know that the mighty Guardians will just coast to the Central title while the Sox need every break in the book to occur.

But like it or not they are running with our core so I'm trying to make the best of it without contemplating the reality that the odds do not favor JR, Hahn or the players doing enough to overcome all the damage they have done.

 

33 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What is the fascination with James McCann. Especially if you think sending Gio the other way is a good idea.

The only way McCann makes sense is as a salary dump / shifting of bad contracts where you feel a change of scenery helps. McCann as a major piece in any deal is non-sensical.  He has negative value (just as Grandal & Leury have negative value and probably Joe Kelly too) for that matter).  

Now if it was McCann and Escobar for Leury and Grandal - I suppose that is cost neutral for Sox, that said - I don't quite know why Mets do it, unless they are just betting more on Grandal (or there is something I'm not aware of tax wise that this seemingly equal contract swap somehow helps them). 

With that said - the Mets have a young catcher who could be an attractive get in a package.  

Note: I realize Leury for McCann is a move that the Mets would make all day long (plus a prospect) - but if the Sox were willing to take on that kind of money, why not just sign a Conforto or someone else to a 1 yr deal with club option or something else (I get it isn't a complete wash) but that is a significantly better move than any view that involves McCann adding to payroll (and I haven't figured out a view where you get McCann in a neutral way that makes sense from a Mets perspective).