Colas is Exciting

[hi8is]

https://www.mlb.com/news/oscar-colas-offseason-work-aimed-at-white-sox-2023-roster-spot

[Balta1701]

[A-Train to 35th]

I wanted to bring Colas up last September with Robert hurting, but most people on this board said he wasn't ready.  He's been ready since he left CUBA and will be our RF on opening day, which if we had any other options last year to play RF besides Sheets and Vaughn should be delayed at this point to get another year of service out of him.  But last year he could of helped, then again we weren't going anywhere with or without him last year.

Edited December 15, 2022 by A-Train to 35th
add

[he gone.]

 Sox last year while playing anybody and everybody else in the OF ,... Colas isn't ready.

Colas the minute the season ends ... "Hey white sox writers/water carriers ... start writing pieces about how he's amazing and can be the immediate opening day RF cause we're too cheap to sign someone. 

 

Amazing how that works. If he's ready for Opening Day, then he should've been out their in RF last year. 

 

\

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, he gone. said:

 Sox last year while playing anybody and everybody else in the OF ,... Colas isn't ready.

Colas the minute the season ends ... "Hey white sox writers/water carriers ... start writing pieces about how he's amazing and can be the immediate opening day RF cause we're too cheap to sign someone. 

 

Amazing how that works. If he's ready for Opening Day, then he should've been out their in RF last year. 

 

\

 

[Texsox]

@he gone. So maybe because it's early in the morning but I'm trying to follow this. He's not ready this season (2023) because for him to be ready in 2023 he also would have been ready in 2022.  

So if they say he's ready this season (2023) he won't be, but he will be ready in 2024 because they said he was ready in 2023. You're not ready until you've been ready for two seasons. 

So doesn't that mean if they brought him out on 2022 and said he was ready he would have also had been ready in 2021? 

 

 

[Dominikk85]

His plate discipline is a bit scary as he is an extreme free swinger but the sox have had success with that type of player before (robert, anderson). 

He likely will have a high chase rate and low walk rate but if he can do enough damage on contact and keep his k rate in check (not well over 30%) he could be a valuable contributor. 

Best case he hits 280/315/500 with 30 bombs but worst case he strikes out 36%, walks 3% and hits 220 with a 260 obp. 

Definitely a risky profile but could be really good. 

[Dick Allen]

I think its crazy to count on him, especially if the goal is multiple championships. But he looks like he could be fun to watch. One of these has to work out sometime, right?

[Sleepy Harold]

I'm glad that they spared him from joining the toxic vat of incompetence that was the 2022 White Sox. Playing Devil's Advocate a bit here, but maybe they kept him down for that exact reason since they saw firsthand how much of a s%*# show that clubhouse was. That may be giving too much credit to the FO though being able to recognize and act on obvious flaws with the club.

 

[Timmy U]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

I think its crazy to count on him, especially if the goal is multiple championships. But he looks like he could be fun to watch. One of these has to work out sometime, right?

I think the multiple championship thing is by the boards now. I agree, he’s a fun player to watch. It’ll be interesting to see if he’s ready right away or if the league punishes his plate discipline like they did with Sosa. Whatever happens, more interesting than running David Peralta out there.

[RibbieRubarb]

6 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I think the multiple championship thing is by the boards now. I agree, he’s a fun player to watch. It’ll be interesting to see if he’s ready right away or if the league punishes his plate discipline like they did with Sosa. Whatever happens, more interesting than running David Peralta out there.

Our three year window is over.

2020-22 Was the shot. But it was hampered by Hahn not developing players or drafting well, JR forcing Tony onto the team, and Hahn/JR not filling the remaining holes in the lineup with proper supporting players.

Houston is where it is because they drafted well, continue to draft well, develop the players they draft, and then sign the right complimentary players they need via FA or trade.

Hahn, traded good players for great prospects, secured high draft picks and then stopped doing anything helpful. 



 

[RibbieRubarb]

🤷‍♂️

Edited December 16, 2022 by RibbieRubarb

[he gone.]

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

@he gone. So maybe because it's early in the morning but I'm trying to follow this. He's not ready this season (2023) because for him to be ready in 2023 he also would have been ready in 2022.  

So if they say he's ready this season (2023) he won't be, but he will be ready in 2024 because they said he was ready in 2023. You're not ready until you've been ready for two seasons. 

So doesn't that mean if they brought him out on 2022 and said he was ready he would have also had been ready in 2021? 

 

 

I have no idea if he's ready or not, i hope he is. That would be awesome. 

[cuban_sammiches]

16 hours ago, he gone. said:

 Sox last year while playing anybody and everybody else in the OF ,... Colas isn't ready.

Colas the minute the season ends ... "Hey white sox writers/water carriers ... start writing pieces about how he's amazing and can be the immediate opening day RF cause we're too cheap to sign someone. 

 

Amazing how that works. If he's ready for Opening Day, then he should've been out their in RF last year. 

 

\

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by cuban_sammiches
Trouble typing

[4uckOffCommieScum]

5 hours ago, Texsox said:

@he gone. So maybe because it's early in the morning but I'm trying to follow this. He's not ready this season (2023) because for him to be ready in 2023 he also would have been ready in 2022.  

So if they say he's ready this season (2023) he won't be, but he will be ready in 2024 because they said he was ready in 2023. You're not ready until you've been ready for two seasons. 

So doesn't that mean if they brought him out on 2022 and said he was ready he would have also had been ready in 2021? 

 

 

If a guy is projected to play in 2023, he should have been called up during roster expansion to get a few at bats in, I believe is the argument here

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

I'm glad that they spared him from joining the toxic vat of incompetence that was the 2022 White Sox. Playing Devil's Advocate a bit here, but maybe they kept him down for that exact reason since they saw firsthand how much of a s%*# show that clubhouse was. That may be giving too much credit to the FO though being able to recognize and act on obvious flaws with the club.

 

That isn't the worst theory I have heard for sure.  They had a positive thing in Project Birmingham and a negative one in Project Dumpster Fire in Chicago.

[Balta1701]

43 minutes ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

If a guy is projected to play in 2023, he should have been called up during roster expansion to get a few at bats in, I believe is the argument here

That is part of it.

Another part of it is that the White Sox kept screaming they were competitive, even adding salary at the trade deadline. They had an outfield that was a mess down the stretch, Robert couldn't swing a bat, Vaughn could barely move, catching a fly ball was almost out of the question. If Colas was so close to ready that he'll be good to go by day 1 of the season this year, and they truly believed that they were competitive last August and September, they needed the help. If all he could do was catch the ball decently in the OF, he couldn't be worse than 1 handed Luis Robert at the plate. 

[CentralChamps21]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:41 AM, Balta1701 said:

Oscar on the coke cups at the concession stand seems like a no brainer.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Thinks Go Better With Colas ! He's the Real Thing.

For the uninitiated these were popular Coke slogans 60's and 70's and were 2 of there best along with the very popular "I'd like to buy the World a Coke" sung to the tune of I'd Like To Teach the World to Sing in which they also incorporated It's the Real Thing at the end of the Song.

[Chisoxfn]

One thing I will say - and I will caveat I'm in the camp that I would rather let Colas force his way onto the roster than just start with him - but when he is playing OF - the combo of him, Robert, and Beintendi is going to have plus plus range.  When you factor in to what Eloy/Vaughn/Sheets did in the corners and holy cripes - we are talking about such a massive improvement for the pitching staff (maybe I'm overselling this - but I don't think I am - when you have the 2 of the 5 worst defensive outfielders in baseball logging a lot of time in both corners AT THE SAME TIME - that is just such a massive disservice to the pitching staff). 

The fact Eloy was like a gold glover compared to Vaughn & Sheets tells you everything you need.  

[Balta1701]

53 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

One thing I will say - and I will caveat I'm in the camp that I would rather let Colas force his way onto the roster than just start with him - but when he is playing OF - the combo of him, Robert, and Beintendi is going to have plus plus range.  When you factor in to what Eloy/Vaughn/Sheets did in the corners and holy cripes - we are talking about such a massive improvement for the pitching staff (maybe I'm overselling this - but I don't think I am - when you have the 2 of the 5 worst defensive outfielders in baseball logging a lot of time in both corners AT THE SAME TIME - that is just such a massive disservice to the pitching staff). 

The fact Eloy was like a gold glover compared to Vaughn & Sheets tells you everything you need.  

So here’s the counterpoint. 

The White Sox have absolutely upgraded defense at their corner OF spots.

However, they have likely downgraded defense at 2b since Harrison was a solid defender and have possibly downgraded at 1b having lost Abreu. McGuire also graded as a solid catcher. Finally, Elvis Andrus graded as better than Anderson at SS.

They cleared out their worst defender but moved him to a different position. They are better at 2 positions where they were godawful but have worse defense at 3 or 4 other positions, on paper.

But, Moncada missed a ton of time. Robert was a mess, I have heard like 4 excuses for why he was so much worse and will totally be better next year but he wasn’t a good CF last year. Anderson was vastly worse than his career performance defensively because of all the errors.

If the excuses for Robert are true and he hasn’t lost a step due to that serious injury so next year will be a lot better, and Anderson can have better focus next year, that is at least as important as the OF upgrades.

If everything goes right this still isn’t a great defense, I see one plus defender at 3b. But if Robert gets back to good the OF becomes solid, If Anderson isn’t bad the If is decent and the defense is slightly above average. 

If Anderson still struggles, Robert’s leg is a problem that doesn’t recover, and the young guys are average or worse instead of good, then the downside is still a poor defense. On top of that, the bench looks like a mess. Maybe a bit better than last year overall, but not pretty to watch.

Like most things, the defense improvement relies largely on the problem having been almost entirely bad coaching. If that’s the case, fixing the coaching staff makes them solid. Which is possible, but hard to assess the likelihood.

[Chisoxfn]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So here’s the counterpoint. 

The White Sox have absolutely upgraded defense at their corner OF spots.

However, they have likely downgraded defense at 2b since Harrison was a solid defender and have possibly downgraded at 1b having lost Abreu. McGuire also graded as a solid catcher. Finally, Elvis Andrus graded as better than Anderson at SS.

They cleared out their worst defender but moved him to a different position. They are better at 2 positions where they were godawful but have worse defense at 3 or 4 other positions, on paper.

But, Moncada missed a ton of time. Robert was a mess, I have heard like 4 excuses for why he was so much worse and will totally be better next year but he wasn’t a good CF last year. Anderson was vastly worse than his career performance defensively because of all the errors.

If the excuses for Robert are true and he hasn’t lost a step due to that serious injury so next year will be a lot better, and Anderson can have better focus next year, that is at least as important as the OF upgrades.

If everything goes right this still isn’t a great defense, I see one plus defender at 3b. But if Robert gets back to good the OF becomes solid, If Anderson isn’t bad the If is decent and the defense is slightly above average. 

If Anderson still struggles, Robert’s leg is a problem that doesn’t recover, and the young guys are average or worse instead of good, then the downside is still a poor defense. On top of that, the bench looks like a mess. Maybe a bit better than last year overall, but not pretty to watch.

Like most things, the defense improvement relies largely on the problem having been almost entirely bad coaching. If that’s the case, fixing the coaching staff makes them solid. Which is possible, but hard to assess the likelihood.

You are right - I am assuming Robert and Anderson are more like where they were than last year. Robert is hard cause he went from straight up elite to below avg almost instantly which was hard to understand (and the minors seemed to imply well above avg). Now maybe his horrible injury two years ago was why - or maybe it was the vision issues and nagging injuries. 
 

Moncada is good, TA is solid, Robert gets back to above avg, corners are solid…that is all much better than what they got. To your point maybe that doesn’t happen. 
 

We will see what they do at 2B and I guess I am just thinking 1B isn’t that important and it wasn’t as if Abreu was elite there. 
 

Long story short - defense should be better and has a shot to be much better. I can’t see it be worse, but man it would really suck if Robert ended up a crap defender after flashing gold glove stuff early in his career.

[Balta1701]

17 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

You are right - I am assuming Robert and Anderson are more like where they were than last year. Robert is hard cause he went from straight up elite to below avg almost instantly which was hard to understand (and the minors seemed to imply well above avg). Now maybe his horrible injury two years ago was why - or maybe it was the vision issues and nagging injuries. 
 

Moncada is good, TA is solid, Robert gets back to above avg, corners are solid…that is all much better than what they got. To your point maybe that doesn’t happen. 
 

We will see what they do at 2B and I guess I am just thinking 1B isn’t that important and it wasn’t as if Abreu was elite there. 
 

Long story short - defense should be better and has a shot to be much better. I can’t see it be worse, but man it would really suck if Robert ended up a crap defender after flashing gold glove stuff early in his career.

I can’t see it being worse either, but Fangraphs had them as the 28th ranked defense as a team last year so there’s not much room to be worse.

Being out of the bottom 10 really does require that LaRussa had a huge influence on them being that bad. It can happen, the well coached 2012 White Sox were 6th in defense, the 2013 White Sox were 23rd in defense with basically the same players because their coach quit. We are seeing the same test.

[bmags]

10 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

One thing I will say - and I will caveat I'm in the camp that I would rather let Colas force his way onto the roster than just start with him - but when he is playing OF - the combo of him, Robert, and Beintendi is going to have plus plus range.  When you factor in to what Eloy/Vaughn/Sheets did in the corners and holy cripes - we are talking about such a massive improvement for the pitching staff (maybe I'm overselling this - but I don't think I am - when you have the 2 of the 5 worst defensive outfielders in baseball logging a lot of time in both corners AT THE SAME TIME - that is just such a massive disservice to the pitching staff). 

The fact Eloy was like a gold glover compared to Vaughn & Sheets tells you everything you need.  

What is colas range?

I’m sold on colas offense, I’m most scared about potentially bad defense just because it feels like we’ve had very little understanding of that as guys came up. We’d heard madrigal would be an all star, he was below average. We heard Eloy would be average, he was horrendous. We heard Robert would be a star and that was correct.

When it’s not billed as a strength it feels like a real box of chocolates.

[bmags]

And on that note, I’m a big believer in Cespedes defense. Really hope he’s out in the work on pitch selection, I think he’ll be an awesome reserve OF.