I'm genuinely curious what folks think went down with the decision to move on from TLR, and whether posters really think TLR would be at the helm in 2023 if fully healthy. I tried to capture the three scenarios I think are most likely, but feel free to elaborate if you think something went down that was different from what the questions describe.

Edited January 5, 20233 yr by 35thstreetswarm

As long as JR owned the club if TLR was healthy, he'd be the manager. 

One of the few occasions I can say I’m thankful for alcoholism. ?

11 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

As long as JR owned the club if TLR was healthy, he'd be the manager. 

I agree.

Jerry sinks with the ship. If nothing else he's loyal. TLR would be back. 

I think he would be the manager. Thankfully we now live in a reality where he is no longer the manager.

Edited January 5, 20233 yr by Bob Sacamano

Interesting poll, but I struggle with the "fully healthy" thing. What does a fully healthy TLR even look like? I don't think he was necessarily healthy when he took the job, but well enough to deal with the stress and travel of the job. Until he wasn't. Sort of a ticking time bomb thing. I feel like it all just finally caught up to him to the point where there's really no coming back from it.

Don’t want to care, f*** that guy 

I think he would have finished out his contract if healthy.  The White Sox had every opportunity to move on from LaRussa when Maddon and Girardi were fired....there were plenty of local and national baseball people saying it was time to move on.  Since they didn't fire him then, I have no reason to think they wouldn't have said "2022 was due to injuries, Tony will be back for the 23 Season."

Yes.  The organization has shown for decades they lack accountability and any sort of "baseball smarts".  For those reasons alone, I find it difficult to believe they'd finally have gotten smart.

54 minutes ago, hi8is said:

One of the few occasions I can say I’m thankful for alcoholism. ?

I really, really think the truth is imbedded in this statement more than we will know for a while.  I don't think it is as much "health" as a concept versus him not being able to exist in a healthy state in this job.  Read into that what you will.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I really, really think the truth is imbedded in this statement more than we will know for a while.  I don't think it is as much "health" as a concept versus him not being able to exist in a healthy state in this job.  Read into that what you will.

My buddy saw TLR in a Bulls box last season and said he was s%*# faced (they both were to be fair). Maybe it was a one off, but I'm assuming he still has a drinking problem. 

100%

As someone that lived with an alcoholic I would never make that speculation without first hand knowledge. I've also known social drinkers who have been picked up for DUI. So I'm not going to blame that. 

Occam's Razor, the team was underperforming and clearly he wasn't effective. They used a minor or phantom health issue to remove him. 

JR is loyal and smart. Kenny has been with him a long time. With loyalties split he did the smart thing. 

2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

As someone that lived with an alcoholic I would never make that speculation without first hand knowledge. I've also known social drinkers who have been picked up for DUI. So I'm not going to blame that. 

Occam's Razor, the team was underperforming and clearly he wasn't effective. They used a minor or phantom health issue to remove him. 

JR is loyal and smart. Kenny has been with him a long time. With loyalties split he did the smart thing. 

With the circumstances around his departure, there is WAY more to the story than is being told.  What we know adds up very cleanly to something bigger than we know.

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

With the circumstances around his departure, there is WAY more to the story than is being told.  What we know adds up very cleanly to something bigger than we know.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least. It is surprising that no player, even those that left, have hinted at bigger issues. 

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

I wouldn't be surprised in the least. It is surprising that no player, even those that left, have hinted at bigger issues. 

And unfortunately it is a complete lack of transparency and honest that leave people with educated guesses and speculation.  Of course local media could ask a hard question, but that won't happen.

I can honestly say that I do not want to know.  The lack of transparency makes me fear that he would have been back, which says all sorts of dumb things about the org.  I would be genuinely surprised that he would go willingly if not for health reasons, but I don't know.  I spend zero energy thinking what if though, I am simply relieved that he is gone and the nightmare of his tenure is over.  

I read the lack of transparency differently -- to me it smacks of a desire to maximize plausible deniability of every scenario while avoiding outright lying to the public about what really happened.  If it was a straightforward physiological/medical issue ("TLR's known heart condition got worse, his doctor says it's not safe for him to continue coaching, we're all very sad about it but our hands are tied") why not say that?  It seems a hell of a lot more face-saving for everybody involved than the current opaque explanation, which leaves room for all sorts of speculation and conspiracy theories.  That seems like a state of affairs you'd tolerate only if the alternative (telling the truth) is worse.

I personally think it was a mix of alcoholism (the "second health issue"), recognition of toxic team chemistry, and poor team performance (which was explicitly included in TLR's statement in order to make it plausibly truthful) all coming to a head, and the "I have a pacemaker" thing was thrown in as cover to make it all sound more straightforwardly medical.  Whatever happened, I think it was more complicated than the org let on and that the FO finally came to consensus that he couldn't continue as manager.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

And unfortunately it is a complete lack of transparency and honest that leave people with educated guesses and speculation.  Of course local media could ask a hard question, but that won't happen.

True.

I'm really with @Kyyle23 on this one. I just don't care. He's finally gone, I can't wait until we can forget. 

I think that if the rumor is true that he will be around for spring training, that's all the evidence one needs imo to come to the conclusion they would have kept him around if fully healthy

38 minutes ago, Texsox said:

True.

I'm really with @Kyyle23 on this one. I just don't care. He's finally gone, I can't wait until we can forget. 

It is nice to move on.

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is nice to move on.

Better to never have been in that position in the first place. But when we rehire Grifol, the HoF manager from LA in 2049 we'll know we haven't learned that lesson. 

Reinsdorf will continue trolling  the CWS fanbase for the rest of his tenure.

TLR may not be physically present in the dugout but he will be the  Reinsdorf whisperer a la John Paxson.

To have TLR scheduled to show up at Spring Training is such an affront to the new manager. But Grifol is resume-building so he probably doesn't  give a damn.

The "Nos" come roaring back to make it 50/50 -- interesting.