Who we selling before the deadline?

[Eminor3rd]

Just expiring contracts. The only solution for the franchise is for the front office to get fired when the window closes.

That’s assuming the FO is still committing themselves to their dumbass roster strategy of having the bulk of its significant players all playing the same, low value defensive position. If not, they could at least entertain the possibility of moving under-utilized value for different value in places they need. But, you know. 

[MiddleCoastBias]

12 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

I could see Lynn traded to a contender at the deadline.  TA maybe next winter, but I don’t think they have the stones to do it in season.  Maybe if any of the pen arms are performing well enough. 

I don’t see a mass fire sale even if they are totally buried in the division.  We’ll get some salary dumped, and a few middling pickups in FA and we’ll be told they are competing again.  Welcome to post rebuild mediocrity

Agreed on this. We'll sign a 36 year old Michael Brantley as the final piece to help us "compete" next year. Sign enough guys to confirm that if you squint you can in fact see a baseball team, but not a competitive one.

[JoeC]

Step 1: sell all assets, including Cease. Stock up the farm system. Hahn has at least shown some level of competence in this area.

Step 2: fire Hahn and the entire FO.

Step 3: hire someone competent to replace KW.

Step 4: have that someone competetent hire a competent GM.

[Quin]

Right now the Sox' only hope is that this is the new Ron jinx thread with Abreu gone.

[Bob Sacamano]

10 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Step 1: sell all assets, including Cease. Stock up the farm system. Hahn has at least shown some level of competence in this area.

Step 2: fire Hahn and the entire FO.

Step 3: hire someone competent to replace KW.

Step 4: have that someone competetent hire a competent GM.

He has?

[JoeC]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

He has?

During the one sell-off, yes.
Went from basically worst to first in well-stocked farm system. Loaded up with talent - Giolito, Dunning, Lopez, Moncada, Eloy, Cease.

What the org has done under his watch since he made those trades is awful.

[Quin]

12 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

He has?

Rick Hahn basically has two GM skills:

1. Negotiate early contracts (and this is beginning to wane).
2. Trading his big chips for prospects, but even then, this is based on the Sale, Q, Eaton trades.
   1. The flip side is that I keep thinking of the Marlins tear down and if that happened to the Sox, we'd be begging for Eloy, Moncada, Kopech, ReyLo and Gio - flaws and all. We'd also be begging for a big signing to bring all those players together.

[Chicago White Sox]

Tim only has one year left after this season correct?  If so, I really don’t think you can wait until the off-season to move him.  He’s inherently more valuable if he can contribute towards two playoff runs.  Even more reason to fire Hahn soon and put whatever staff remains on minor league scouting.

Other positional guys I would move are Grandal and Elvis (if someone will take him).  I’d happily give away Benintendi but doubt there would be takers.  Yoan is a tough one.  Probably would be good to move him, but feel like you’d have to eat money and I’d like to see if he can maintain the flashes we saw once he returns.  Eloy is a hold until the off-season at minumum.

Additionally, I would hold onto Cease until the off-season and let the new GM do a legit auction process.  Focus on trading Giolito, Lynn, & Clevinger at the deadline for whatever you can get.  Also, trade your veteran bullpen arms for whatever you can get.  No idea who fills all these major league roles given our s%*# pitching depth.  Could be a bloodbath down the stretch.

[Chicago White Sox]

Forgot to mention, but also fire KW and hire Mike Chernoff as the head of our baseball operations.  Let him hire the new GM, rebuild the development, scouting, and analytics staffs as needed, etc.  Fixing this s%*# will take time as the org is rotten to the core, but the first domino is very easy.  Hire a smart baseball guy from a Best in class organization and give free reign to do whatever he sees fit.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'll wait to see what happens when Hendricks, Crochet, Kelly, Anderson and Moncada come back.

I ve never really entertained the idea of keeping Burger at 3rd and moving Moncada to 2nd because Moncada plays 3rd so well. However I think the time has come to try it. Nothing to lose at this point. The team is already a disaster. Get as many bats in the lineup as possible who can hit for power.

The BP is already starting to look better although for some reason Graveman hasn't been pitching all that much.

From April 2nd to the 18th he only made 4 appearances. He makes too much money to be used so sporadically.

Yes I am holding out hope that since the Division is bad a playoff appearance could be in the cards. It still means something. As long as I'm paying attention no sense rooting for them to lose.

That doesn't mean that you overlook expiring assets. Trade whoever is an upcoming free agent. Get younger, faster, good defense and power players with a good health history even if it looks like you are losing the trade. This might mean more upper level minors talent that seems blocked by the talent in front of them. But if that isn't possible you still have to pull the trigger when you need more talent in all levels.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

Agreed on this. We'll sign a 36 year old Michael Brantley as the final piece to help us "compete" next year. Sign enough guys to confirm that if you squint you can in fact see a baseball team, but not a competitive one.

Gio bounces and they’ll claim they tried to resign him. We’ll get a few dumpster dive SP signings, and more over the hill “depth”.  Another trip around the sun with the same core of walking wounded and a whole lot of “IFs”…

[The Kids Can Play]

I realize it probably will never happen, but the only way to do any trading is to do it without Rick Hahn, Kenny and the rest of the entire pathetic FO throughout the organization. 

I think it's absurd to let this FO do anymore trades since they have already proven they are completely inept at the retooling and/or rebuilding phases. 

Having said that, if Jerry wants to continue in baseball mediocrity and be a totally embarrassing losing team, then fine let the the genius RH do it again. Having said that, I would dump  the following, but only near the trade deadline when you have teams more desperate:

Trade Anderson, Lynn, Giolito, Grandal, Clevinger, Eloy, Benintendi, Andrus, Sheets and Moncada. I know they aren't going to get a lot for these players because their stock is down, but I don't care. The Sox can't WIN with these players, so you might as well get rid of them, because you can always LOSE with less expensive younger players. In this scenario the Sox will for sure save money, which Jerry loves, and regardless of whether the team sucks and has the worse record, which obviously Jerry again doesn't give a crap on, at least Jerry will still get his millions from the luxury tax sharing. 

Note to Jerry: since you are not willing to sell your team until your death, at least let your son Michael or someone else competent run the Sox. You let Michael run the Bulls and he did improve them, maybe not much yet, but way better than when you ran them. At least Michael cleaned house and went to the outside for a new FO, which is exactly what you need to do right now.

 

[MiddleCoastBias]

26 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I realize it probably will never happen, but the only way to do any trading is to do it without Rick Hahn, Kenny and the rest of the entire pathetic FO throughout the organization. 

I think it's absurd to let this FO do anymore trades since they have already proven they are completely inept at the retooling and/or rebuilding phases. 

Having said that, if Jerry wants to continue in baseball mediocrity and be a totally embarrassing losing team, then fine let the the genius RH do it again. Having said that, I would dump  the following, but only near the trade deadline when you have teams more desperate:

Trade Anderson, Lynn, Giolito, Grandal, Clevinger, Eloy, Benintendi, Andrus, Sheets and Moncada. I know they aren't going to get a lot for these players because their stock is down, but I don't care. The Sox can't WIN with these players, so you might as well get rid of them, because you can always LOSE with less expensive younger players. In this scenario the Sox will for sure save money, which Jerry loves, and regardless of whether the team sucks and has the worse record, which obviously Jerry again doesn't give a crap on, at least Jerry will still get his millions from the luxury tax sharing. 

Note to Jerry: since you are not willing to sell your team until your death, at least let your son Michael or someone else competent run the Sox. You let Michael run the Bulls and he did improve them, maybe not much yet, but way better than when you ran them. At least Michael cleaned house and went to the outside for a new FO, which is exactly what you need to do right now.

 

This is the type of big-picture total package of moves that an owner makes before selling the team - strip it to the studs, get rid of all of the contracts, and let the new owner(s) build a franchise as they see fit, fresh start.

None of this will happen (the trades, firing the top staff, Jerry selling, etc), but this team is primed for this exact type of shakeup with how things sit right now. 

A smart owner would see this and would recognize the opportunity.

[The Kids Can Play]

1 minute ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

This is the type of big-picture total package of moves that an owner makes before selling the team - strip it to the studs, get rid of all of the contracts, and let the new owner(s) build a franchise as they see fit, fresh start.

None of this will happen (the trades, firing the top staff, Jerry selling, etc), but this team is primed for this exact type of shakeup with how things sit right now. 

A smart owner would see this and would recognize the opportunity.

Oh I completely understand and agree with you this will never happen under Jerry, although it should and could, but Jerry is too stubborn and senile.

This will happen after Jerry's death when some rich billionaire will come in and buy the Sox, similar to what Steve Cohen did with the Mets. He will strip it down, fire the entire loser FO and hire his own outside people with strong resumes of building and maintaining a winning baseball organization.

[MiddleCoastBias]

15 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Oh I completely understand and agree with you this will never happen under Jerry, although it should and could, but Jerry is too stubborn and senile.

This will happen after Jerry's death when some rich billionaire will come in and buy the Sox, similar to what Steve Cohen did with the Mets. He will strip it down, fire the entire loser FO and hire his own outside people with strong resumes of building and maintaining a winning baseball organization.

Agree again, though that scenario puts us back a few steps in 5 years or whenever we think the team is sold. We're about to start another big rebuild in a year or two (max), and that means a few years of the same front office putting their stink all over drafting and player development in those years before the sale.

If I'm a billionaire wannabe-owner, it's more attractive to take over a fresh start rather than a third or fourth restart managed by the same failsons front office.

Cohen-lite would be our best option in that scenario, someone willing to spend more to set the stage how they want it. But who else could there be out there with 1. the motivation Cohen had to buy a team and 2. the cash to burn?

[Bob Sacamano]

Assuming we are in a position to sell in July, I think you have to listen on just about everyone. Robert being signed for 5 years, I would hold onto. If you can't extend Cease, trade him too.

[Boopa1219]

19 hours ago, chetkincaid said:

Tim Anderson would be a good fit for the Dodgers 

So are the Braves. In any deal with the Dodgers, I would need Diego Cartaya coming back

[Quin]

19 hours ago, chetkincaid said:

Tim Anderson would be a good fit for the Dodgers 

I would be so sad, but so happy for Tim.

[soulfly]

18 hours ago, JoeC said:

If I am Hahn, everyone on the 26-man roster is up for grabs for prospects.

If I'm Hahn, I'm out of a job five years ago because of shitty performance.

[JoeC]

12 minutes ago, soulfly said:

If I'm Hahn, I'm out of a job five years ago because of shitty performance.

Pretty sure you meant "I'm I'm JR, Hahn is out of a job. . . ."

[The Kids Can Play]

19 hours ago, wegner said:

Do you think we could get some decent  starting pitching prospect(s) back for Timmy?

I think TA would be a great fit for the Dodgers. I think he would demand a top pitching prospect or two from them. There a few good reasons why LAD might be willing to over-trade value in their prospects to the Sox to get TA:

1. They are off to a slow start and the pressure on LAD to win is huge as always. Keep in mind they always lead the league in attendance and nothing is different this year as they are #1 at close to 50K per home game. 

2. They don't have anything close to a shortstop like Tim Anderson. 

- Miguel Rojas - SS - 11 games - .125/.200/.156/.356
- Chris Taylor - SS  -  16 games - .111/.196/.378/.574    
- Luke Williams - SS - 4 games - .100/.100/.100/.200    

3. LAD has the #2 ranked farm system in baseball. They easily can afford to let some top prospects go. Unlike TB that doesn't have the money to spend and needs their farm system to stay competitive, LAD has learned to manage both FA spending and farm systems really well. LA can always fall back on just trades and FO spending in the future years to be competitive, especially since they actually are down to #5 in payroll and can afford to spend more money on players if they lose some good prospects from their farm system. Even if LAD gives away some top prospects, don't forget Andrew Friedman is running the Dodgers. He was brought there from TB because he did know how to develop a farm system, so he would easily be able to ramp it back up.

Then again even if all this could happen, you are counting on Rick Hahn not to screw it up. 

 

[RibbieRubarb]

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I think TA would be a great fit for the Dodgers. I think he would demand a top pitching prospect or two from them. There a few good reasons why LAD might be willing to over-trade value in their prospects to the Sox to get TA:

1. They are off to a slow start and the pressure on LAD to win is huge as always. Keep in mind they always lead the league in attendance and nothing is different this year as they are #1 at close to 50K per home game. 

2. They don't have anything close to a shortstop like Tim Anderson. 

- Miguel Rojas - SS - 11 games - .125/.200/.156/.356
- Chris Taylor - SS  -  16 games - .111/.196/.378/.574    
- Luke Williams - SS - 4 games - .100/.100/.100/.200    

3. LAD has the #2 ranked farm system in baseball. They easily can afford to let some top prospects go. Unlike TB that doesn't have the money to spend and needs their farm system to stay competitive, LAD has learned to manage both FA spending and farm systems really well. LA can always fall back on just trades and FO spending in the future years to be competitive, especially since they actually are down to #5 in payroll and can afford to spend more money on players if they lose some good prospects from their farm system. Even if LAD gives away some top prospects, don't forget Andrew Friedman is running the Dodgers. He was brought there from TB because he did know how to develop a farm system, so he would easily be able to ramp it back up.

Then again even if all this could happen, you are counting on Rick Hahn not to screw it up. 

 

There are problems with LA though. 

1. Gavin Lux will be back. While he can play some 2b, and they're experts at moving people around, they also did want to move him to SS.

2. The Dodgers clearly made a decision this year to save money and to give experience to younger players. They may very well not want to move their younger players right now.

3. The Dodgers got themselves down to a point where they're just $14 million or so over the Tax line according to Spotrac. I'm not sure if they will be factoring anything like an insurance payout (they have multiple guys out for the season), or any adjustments due to Bauer, but if they were, they might have a shot at getting out of the multi-year repeater luxury tax penalties. That could be super huge before Ohtani hits FA. They seemed to be very particular in the level they spent to last offseason, so I'm wondering if they're able to count something that puts them under. They may very well not be adding any money this July.

[ShoeLessRob]

Everyone else knows how overrated our players are except Hahn. 

[Thesieve30]

8 hours ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

Agreed on this. We'll sign a 36 year old Michael Brantley as the final piece to help us "compete" next year. Sign enough guys to confirm that if you squint you can in fact see a baseball team, but not a competitive one.