1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean, is it possible he gets traded?  Sure.  But it wouldn't make much sense, in my opinion. 

Sox have been looking for a LHH RF for years.  He hits LH.  He plays hard.  He has power.  He has a glove (though its been much worse than I anticipated, but a lot of his gaffes seem to be mental).  Don't get me wrong, its been a disaster debut season for Oscar.  But trading him now doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Its not like the Sox are forced to make a decision on him this offseason -- he can be optioned in 24 and 25. 

I'd much rather see them try to actually develop this guy than trade him after a disaster rookie campaign. 

I don’t exactly think he has to get traded to “never play for the MLB team again.”

2 hours ago, Quin said:

Pedro is so fucking Charmin soft with vets, but with rookies he leaps at the chance to be a hard ass.

I’m sure the players see it too, and see right through him.  He’s completely full of s%*#, which is why he fits perfectly in this clown shoes org. 

34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

They're trying to send a message to the rookie here, not to the fans. He may well deserve it, but at the same time, it's awfully frustrating to see the level of effort everyone else puts out on an average day for this franchise while only a couple rookies get singled out for this kind of message. 

That’s what’s so damn infuriating about it.  Where’s this level of accountability for the rest of this train wreck? Why are only the rookies singled out / scapegoated?

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The funny thing is KW was the farm director, did it wrong, and he got the GM job as well.

The KW led to the only WS win since 1917, but apparently only Chris Getz of all people has figured out how to develop a championship-caliber team during those forty-two years or whatever.

If they're all playing the game the right way, shouldn't there be a clear indicator of results...even if it's not strictly measured by wins and losses at the minor league level?

2 hours ago, Timmy U said:

Colas has been a disaster in all phases, so I don't have a problem with them sending him out, but if not him, who is going to play right for them next year?  But at this point, I despise Grifol.  He's not good with the veterans he inherited and he is not good with the young guys. Exactly who is he good at leading?

Chris Getz, until Big Daddy Dayton Moore arrives. Or in Dayton speak The Father (Dayton), The Son (Getz) and The Holy Ghost (Tony La Russa).

2 hours ago, Quin said:

Pedro is so fucking Charmin soft with vets, but with rookies he leaps at the chance to be a hard ass.

In all seriousness, it's possible Hahn and Kenny tied his hands on some veterans. Jeff Torborg, Ozzie Guillen and Ricky Renteria were the only three managers I recall holding veterans accountable under Jerry's tenure, Ozzie in the 2000s until he stopped caring the final few seasons.

If Getz can establish these standards, it will be an upgrade from Kenny Hahn:

1. Players are expected to run to first base on every play.
2. Players are taught fundamentals, are expected to play proper baseball, and are benched, demoted and or cut if they do not perform consistently under these expectations.
3. Injured players are placed on the IL and do not return until fully recovered.
4. Players are expected to work counts, extend opponent pitchers. 
5. Pitchers are expected to be effective working the strike zone, and be confident in allowing balls in play (pitchers can do after establishing point 6).
6. Limit key acquisitions to athletic players who can hit and defend, with plus defenders up the middle.
7. Never use a high draft pick or spend significant FA money on another poor defender or poor athlete / DH / 1B type. Period. Ever. These players are a dime a dozen.
8. Minor League and Major League coaches are held accountable for player development and advancing a thoughtful consistent organizational approach at every level.
9. This includes catching. Bring in a solid dedicated resource to coach major and minor league catchers on pitch calling/game management, proper defensive technique, pitch framing, game planning.
10. Develop a modern pitching lab / system where players are taught the proper techniques and methods throughout the organization. Work with Katz or his replacement to establish.

25 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

That’s what’s so damn infuriating about it.  Where’s this level of accountability for the rest of this train wreck? Why are only the rookies singled out / scapegoated?

Cause rookies are expendable and only smart organizations spend time developing rookie talent.

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

Cause rookies are expendable and only smart organizations spend time developing rookie talent.

Why suffer through the growing pains of youth when you can get consistent levels of bad from the overpriced washed up vets? 

17 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Chris Getz, until Big Daddy Dayton Moore arrives. Or in Dayton speak The Father (Dayton), The Son (Getz) and The Holy Ghost (Tony La Russa).

In all seriousness, it's possible Hahn and Kenny tied his hands on some veterans. Jeff Torborg, Ozzie Guillen and Ricky Renteria were the only three managers I recall holding veterans accountable under Jerry's tenure, Ozzie in the 2000s until he stopped caring the final few seasons.

If Getz can establish these standards, it will be an upgrade from Kenny Hahn:

1. Players are expected to run to first base on every play.
2. Players are taught fundamentals, are expected to play proper baseball, and are benched, demoted and or cut if they do not perform consistently under these expectations.
3. Injured players are placed on the IL and do not return until fully recovered.
4. Players are expected to work counts, extend opponent pitchers. 
5. Pitchers are expected to be effective working the strike zone, and be confident in allowing balls in play (pitchers can do after establishing point 6).
6. Limit key acquisitions to athletic players who can hit and defend, with plus defenders up the middle.
7. Never use a high draft pick or spend significant FA money on another poor defender or poor athlete / DH / 1B type. Period. Ever. These players are a dime a dozen.
8. Minor League and Major League coaches are held accountable for player development and advancing a thoughtful consistent organizational approach at every level.
9. This includes catching. Bring in a solid dedicated resource to coach major and minor league catchers on pitch calling/game management, proper defensive technique, pitch framing, game planning.
10. Develop a modern pitching lab / system where players are taught the proper techniques and methods throughout the organization. Work with Katz or his replacement to establish.

In his previous role, didn’t the Minor league coordinator have the ability to put some serious influence on several of these?

If he were prepared to do them, getting buy in from ownership on some of these should be important to, but it’s clear that wasn’t part of the original agreement where he took the job as issues like the staff were things he said they would talk about later. For a big example, we have heard a lot about the owner having to clear draft picks, right up to the last few minutes, and this fits with some of their draft choices. Why would we expect that to change if the owner hasn’t agreed to change it?

Theres just no reason to believe they will do the bare minimum when the guy brought in didn’t do these things in his previous role and when they have no buyin from ownership.

Why carry a 3rd catcher? Just dfa the one who can barely catch and is a free agent soon and have 2.

Just now, Balta1701 said:

In his previous role, didn’t the Minor league coordinator have the ability to put some serious influence on several of these?

If he were prepared to do them, getting buy in from ownership on some of these should be important to, but it’s clear that wasn’t part of the original agreement where he took the job as issues like the staff were things he said they would talk about later. For a big example, we have heard a lot about the owner having to clear draft picks, right up to the last few minutes, and this fits with some of their draft choices. Why would we expect that to change if the owner hasn’t agreed to change it?

Theres just no reason to believe they will do the bare minimum when the guy brought in didn’t do these things in his previous role and when they have no buyin from ownership.

I'd say there is a high probability the organization will not significantly improve. The best we can hope for (not necessarily expect) is Jerry nears and surpasses 90 is he will not have the stamina / interest / health to meddle as he has in the past. Plus you don't have two guys working against each other. Getz can't blame Kenny for a decade plus of his failures (assuming Tony is out of the picture - could be a big if).

Also, for a majority of points, it's just a different mindset, not a costly endeavor. Hahn was ill prepared and inept, couldn't build a cohesive roster or run an organization. Acted more like a Rotisserie Baseball General Manager than a MLB General Manager.

I don't see Jerry demanding the following:

• Hitters should not work counts.
• Pitchers should nibble and work counts full, exiting the game after 4-5 starter innings.
• The GM should focus primarily on RP and DH/1B draft and FA acquisitions.
• Players should play with poor fundamentals.
• Players should not play hard / run to first.
• Players should not be placed on the IL until absolutely necessary, and should return unable to play for days if not weeks and hope for the best.
• The Sox should field shorthanded rosters on a regular basis.
• There should not be a consistent organizational player development philosophy. Every man and coach for himself has worked brilliantly, DIY improvement (Lucas/ SF Getz) is preferred.

The organization is at ground zero. You can recruit young hungry coaches with the knowledge they can progress and have many open opportunities with the dearth of current coaching talent.

21 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Why carry a 3rd catcher? Just dfa the one who can barely catch and is a free agent soon and have 2.

They DFAd one:  Seby.
Kept Grandal. 
Love those veterans.

3 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

They DFAd one:  Seby.
Kept Grandal. 
Love those veterans.

They should have (and still can) dumped Grandal. 

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

They should have (and still can) dumped Grandal. 

Of course they should have. That they haven't is telling.
 

8 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Of course they should have. That they haven't is telling.
 

Might as well save a little on Zavala since they need his roster spot next year for Perez.

He's only 24 (that's good), but he's been horrific (that's bad).

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

They're trying to send a message to the rookie here, not to the fans. He may well deserve it, but at the same time, it's awfully frustrating to see the level of effort everyone else puts out on an average day for this franchise while only a couple rookies get singled out for this kind of message. 

Let’s see if they really clean house and change tone. I go back to easier to have an outsider do it than the in house guy - unless Getz had been consistently pushing this with Kw and Hanh and getting overruled and Jr said hey this getz guy has been right a lot - let me let him try. 
 

But I will be clear - I 100 percent support this move. They have a lot more of them to make, as you say Balta, cause the standard the front office and coaching staff has held has been beyond sub standard and years of it has created a cancer. 

6 hours ago, Quin said:

Grifol about to install a time card punch in, punch out clock at the G-Rate

Who's worse, Grifol or Boylen?

9 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Chris Getz, until Big Daddy Dayton Moore arrives. Or in Dayton speak The Father (Dayton), The Son (Getz) and The Holy Ghost (Tony La Russa).

In all seriousness, it's possible Hahn and Kenny tied his hands on some veterans. Jeff Torborg, Ozzie Guillen and Ricky Renteria were the only three managers I recall holding veterans accountable under Jerry's tenure, Ozzie in the 2000s until he stopped caring the final few seasons.

If Getz can establish these standards, it will be an upgrade from Kenny Hahn:

1. Players are expected to run to first base on every play.
2. Players are taught fundamentals, are expected to play proper baseball, and are benched, demoted and or cut if they do not perform consistently under these expectations.
3. Injured players are placed on the IL and do not return until fully recovered.
4. Players are expected to work counts, extend opponent pitchers. 
5. Pitchers are expected to be effective working the strike zone, and be confident in allowing balls in play (pitchers can do after establishing point 6).
6. Limit key acquisitions to athletic players who can hit and defend, with plus defenders up the middle.
7. Never use a high draft pick or spend significant FA money on another poor defender or poor athlete / DH / 1B type. Period. Ever. These players are a dime a dozen.
8. Minor League and Major League coaches are held accountable for player development and advancing a thoughtful consistent organizational approach at every level.
9. This includes catching. Bring in a solid dedicated resource to coach major and minor league catchers on pitch calling/game management, proper defensive technique, pitch framing, game planning.
10. Develop a modern pitching lab / system where players are taught the proper techniques and methods throughout the organization. Work with Katz or his replacement to establish.

Good list, just make the Sox players watch the Rays games on TV, the Rays do all those things with a great front office, manager and coaching staff.

Edited September 12, 20232 yr by The Mighty Mite

6 hours ago, ron883 said:

Who's worse, Grifol or Boylen?

For now, Boylen. (It’s a closer debate if you asked about LaRussa and Boylen).

Sending down a rookie in September when your season is over is pretty telling about how the team feels about Colas.

I think it's easy to look at this and immediately blame the fact that the organization sucks.  But this seems more about Colas than anything else.  He's not improved after being sent down multiple times and told to work on certain things.  Whether it's ability, will, or attitude, he's not doing the things he has been asked to do.

I really don't care who plays RF for the remainder of the season.  I don't care about the remainder of the season.  If Colas isn't going to do what he needs to do to get better (or he's incapable), send him on his way.

1 minute ago, hogan873 said:

I think it's easy to look at this and immediately blame the fact that the organization sucks.  But this seems more about Colas than anything else.  He's not improved after being sent down multiple times and told to work on certain things.  Whether it's ability, will, or attitude, he's not doing the things he has been asked to do.

I really don't care who plays RF for the remainder of the season.  I don't care about the remainder of the season.  If Colas isn't going to do what he needs to do to get better (or he's incapable), send him on his way.

The move itself is generally understandable as sending a message to a guy who has clearly stank this year.

The questions that this raises include - why isn’t this standard applied to the veterans (and you know darn well it isn’t), and why they didn’t take steps to work on this before handing him the RF spot last spring. Maybe we should ask the minor league coordinator what exactly he was doing with his time I bet he has to come up with an excuse.

23 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Sending down a rookie in September when your season is over is pretty telling about how the team feels about Colas.

This was Getz making a dumb statement

 

Baseball Reference says Colas has only been in the Sox organization since '22 at age 23.  Is that true? Where was Colas playing in '20 and '21? Did he sit out for 2 years or was he playing in the Dominican? It looks like he played in Japan and Cuba from '16-'19. 

13 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

They're trying to send a message to the rookie here, not to the fans. He may well deserve it, but at the same time, it's awfully frustrating to see the level of effort everyone else puts out on an average day for this franchise while only a couple rookies get singled out for this kind of message. 

This is what I mean. It is only the rookies. Suddenly Grifol is doing the tough guy role when it is way too late for that. The season was lost in April.