Josh Barfield expected to be asst. GM; Brian Bannister and Gene Watson coming as well

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, DirtySox said:

 

 

Comparing to a much better run front office, the Cubs, there is a Director of Baseball operations at the top (Hoyer), A general Manger (Hawkins), two guys who have Assistant General Manger titles, and I count at least 6 guys who have the title of Vice President just on the baseball side (with other Vps in charge of their spring training, security (cough), and so forth). 

Assistant General Manager – Ehsan Bokhari (no official portfolio but thought to focus on scouting and player development)
Assistant General Manager/Vice President, Pitching - Craig Breslow
Vice President, Player Development - Jared Banner
Vice President, Baseball Operations - Greg Davey
Vice President, Scouting - Dan Kantrovitz
Vice President, Player Personnel - Matt Dorey
Vice President, International Scouting - Louie Eljaua
Vice President, Research & Development - Chris Moore

I would question whether one person can do all these jobs. 

[caulfield12]

https://www.mlb.com/news/josh-barfield-join-white-sox-staff-from-d-backs

 

“Part of [Getz’s] vision was bringing in the people from other places where things have gone pretty well,” Barfield said. “Between me and Gene Watson and Bannister, a lot of this first week has been kind of downloading ideas and things we have seen, things that have worked, things that maybe haven’t worked and also getting to know how things are done here. I like the collection of ideas we have so far.”

“Watching these guys play [for Arizona], from our dugout over there, those guys were developed right. I’m glad he’s on our side,” said White Sox manager Pedro Grifol of Barfield. “Smart, articulate, well spoken, you can go on and on and on. I’m happy he’s on our team. I think Chris has done a really good job assembling a nice group around him that’s going to bring some different ideas.”

 

Balta's going to have a field day with this one...

Edited September 28, 2023 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/josh-barfield-join-white-sox-staff-from-d-backs

 

“Part of [Getz’s] vision was bringing in the people from other places where things have gone pretty well,” Barfield said. “Between me and Gene Watson and Bannister, a lot of this first week has been kind of downloading ideas and things we have seen, things that have worked, things that maybe haven’t worked and also getting to know how things are done here. I like the collection of ideas we have so far.”

“Watching these guys play [for Arizona], from our dugout over there, those guys were developed right. I’m glad he’s on our side,” said White Sox manager Pedro Grifol of Barfield. “Smart, articulate, well spoken, you can go on and on and on. I’m happy he’s on our team. I think Chris has done a really good job assembling a nice group around him that’s going to bring some different ideas.”

 

Balta's going to have a field day with this one...

That’s one hell of a thing. 

[nrockway]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:13 PM, Balta1701 said:

Comparing to a much better run front office, the Cubs, there is a Director of Baseball operations at the top (Hoyer), A general Manger (Hawkins), two guys who have Assistant General Manger titles, and I count at least 6 guys who have the title of Vice President just on the baseball side (with other Vps in charge of their spring training, security (cough), and so forth). 

Assistant General Manager – Ehsan Bokhari (no official portfolio but thought to focus on scouting and player development)
Assistant General Manager/Vice President, Pitching - Craig Breslow
Vice President, Player Development - Jared Banner
Vice President, Baseball Operations - Greg Davey
Vice President, Scouting - Dan Kantrovitz
Vice President, Player Personnel - Matt Dorey
Vice President, International Scouting - Louie Eljaua
Vice President, Research & Development - Chris Moore

I would question whether one person can do all these jobs. 

too many chiefs, not enough...

I wonder about an organization where half the staff has 'manager' or 'executive' or 'president' in their title. One time I worked for a company where every wagie's title was "such and such manager." the company is no longer in business.

 

in the context of Reinsdorf organizations, too many 'decisionmakers' seems historically like the primary problem.

Edited September 28, 2023 by nrockway

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, nrockway said:

too many chiefs, not enough...

I wonder about an organization where half the staff has 'manager' or 'executive' or 'president' in their title. One time I worked for a company where every wagie's title was "such and such manager." the company is no longer in business.

 

in the context of Reinsdorf organizations, too many 'decisionmakers' seems historically like the primary problem.

You can say that at the KW and Hahn level and it appears accurate.

HOWEVER, at all the other levels of this organization, we constantly are talking about failing to do basic jobs - basic advance scouting, basic big league scouting, minor leaguers who are unable to obtain the type of coaching and feedback that they need to have success and who are sort of on their own to figure things out. We see people who are sloppy, we see people who aren't doing their jobs well. The Dodgers give AJ Pollock a huge amount of information, a giant book every day to prepare for his at bats, he comes to Chicago and they tell him that there's probably a pitcher who throws with an arm who will be on the mound tomorrow and he should get to work. The ticket sales and customer service departments have sounded awful the last few years, events and outreach and even just the general things that leave people feeling good have been stripped away. There's no one to say "Hey maybe Clevinger using 'gold digger' as his walkout song" doesn't reflect well on the team, so it just slips through. 

They haven't established a clear structure at the top, fair. However, at all the other levels of the organization, people are overworked and incapable of providing the type of information that players and decision makers need. They're all swamped, they're doing the best they can but the organization is so completely bare-bones, built to save money on staff, that it hurts everything else.

That contrast shows up dramatically when you compare to the Cubs. The White Sox have 1 guy getting the same title as 3 or 4 guys there. They have a pitching expert, an international scouting organizer, etc. The White Sox just lump all that onto one guy, and we've seen how bad the results are.

[nrockway]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You can say that at the KW and Hahn level and it appears accurate.

HOWEVER, at all the other levels of this organization, we constantly are talking about failing to do basic jobs - basic advance scouting, basic big league scouting, minor leaguers who are unable to obtain the type of coaching and feedback that they need to have success and who are sort of on their own to figure things out. We see people who are sloppy, we see people who aren't doing their jobs well. The Dodgers give AJ Pollock a huge amount of information, a giant book every day to prepare for his at bats, he comes to Chicago and they tell him that there's probably a pitcher who throws with an arm who will be on the mound tomorrow and he should get to work. The ticket sales and customer service departments have sounded awful the last few years, events and outreach and even just the general things that leave people feeling good have been stripped away. There's no one to say "Hey maybe Clevinger using 'gold digger' as his walkout song" doesn't reflect well on the team, so it just slips through. 

They haven't established a clear structure at the top, fair. However, at all the other levels of the organization, people are overworked and incapable of providing the type of information that players and decision makers need. They're all swamped, they're doing the best they can but the organization is so completely bare-bones, built to save money on staff, that it hurts everything else.

This is all a great point and I don't disagree with it in principle, I just have trouble imagining a scenario where they hire or promote or otherwise create this many executive roles and then hire the ensuing staff to make it worthwhile. Somehow I imagine it's 6 VPs, Getz, Jerry and 5 personal assistants because the 6th VP's just quit due to a pending sexual harassment lawsuit. I think it's great that they hired the supporting VPs they did and maybe that means turning over a new leaf. I don't rule it out, I'm just not optimistic that Reinsdorf actually wants to pay salaries to staff an organization. I'm not the sort of fan that thinks Reinsdorf is "cheap" when it comes to spending on the Sox or Bulls roster, but I imagine he views players as assets and front office staff as a sunk cost. 

[Balta1701]

Just now, nrockway said:

This is all a great point and I don't disagree with it in principle, I just have trouble imagining a scenario where they hire or promote or otherwise create this many executive roles and then hire the ensuing staff to make it worthwhile. Somehow I imagine it's 6 VPs, Getz, Jerry and 5 personal assistants because the 6th VP's just quit due to a pending sexual harassment lawsuit. I think it's great that they hired the supporting VPs they did and maybe that means turning over a new leaf. I don't rule it out, I'm just not optimistic that Reinsdorf actually wants to pay salaries to staff an organization. I'm not the sort of fan that thinks Reinsdorf is "cheap" when it comes to spending on the Sox or Bulls roster, but I imagine he views players as assets and front office staff as a sunk cost. 

We don't know the structure yet, but the fact that these guys are getting such broad-ranging titles makes it seem pretty obvious to me that they are just replacing the overworked guys who were here with new guys in the same basic roles. The new guys think things will be ok, then they are going to be hit by the amount of tasks on the table for them, try to do the best they can, and wind up half-assing everything because they can't possibly do all the tasks they're supposed to do but somehow things need to be finished. Just like the guys right now. 

[South Side Hit Men]

20 minutes ago, nrockway said:

Somehow I imagine it's 6 VPs, Getz, Jerry and 5 personal assistants because the 6th VP's just quit due to a pending sexual harassment lawsuit.

Wait, there is another White Sox sexual harassment lawsuit?

[Boopa1219]

So far the Sox have hired from the Giants, Diamondbacks and the Angels(?). So far they’ve going after guys in very good orgs (not you Angels), hopefully that continues with the remaining hires. And I really hope they pull from Baltimore. Those guys know how to develop hitters. 

[nrockway]

18 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Wait, there is another White Sox sexual harassment lawsuit?

I sure hope not, it was an attempt at a joke considering the track record of professional sports teams, but specifically Omar Vizquel and Brad Aldrich were front of mind. Speaking of Vizquel, I had this video game when I was a kid "Triple Play 2000" that led me to believe he was the best baseball player that ever lived. I didn't think about him for 20 years until I heard he was molesting developmentally disabled batboys...

[Boopa1219]

35 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

We don't know the structure yet, but the fact that these guys are getting such broad-ranging titles makes it seem pretty obvious to me that they are just replacing the overworked guys who were here with new guys in the same basic roles. The new guys think things will be ok, then they are going to be hit by the amount of tasks on the table for them, try to do the best they can, and wind up half-assing everything because they can't possibly do all the tasks they're supposed to do but somehow things need to be finished. Just like the guys right now. 

Jerry’s refusal to spend on staffing the FO is ridiculous because the more money you spend on the FO and on analytics, the less you can spend on the roster.

[GreenSox]

26 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said:

Jerry’s refusal to spend on staffing the FO is ridiculous because the more money you spend on the FO and on analytics, the less you can spend on the roster.

It is ridiculous.  It's so ridiculous that I'm not convinced it isn't a result of lazy, ego-driven and all-around shi$$y management by Hahn and Williams v JR pinching pennies.  
The bigger the staff, the more people you have to supervise and the more work you have to do.

Edited September 28, 2023 by GreenSox

[Quin]

2 hours ago, nrockway said:

I sure hope not, it was an attempt at a joke considering the track record of professional sports teams, but specifically Omar Vizquel and Brad Aldrich were front of mind. Speaking of Vizquel, I had this video game when I was a kid "Triple Play 2000" that led me to believe he was the best baseball player that ever lived. I didn't think about him for 20 years until I heard he was molesting developmentally disabled batboys...

Dude was definitely being (I cannot think of a better word, I'm so sorry) groomed to be the future manager here.

Abhorrent what he did and he can rot in hell.

[caulfield12]

looks like Bannister was brought on specifically to save the career of Kopech

per Merkin, mlb.com

 

 

CHICAGO -- Brian Bannister has a philosophy about the origins of putting together a solid pitching staff. Or it’s more of a recipe presented by the new White Sox senior advisor to pitching. 

“You have ingredients in the organization when you get there,” said Bannister, who spoke to the media before a 3-1 White Sox victory over the D-backs on Thursday afternoon at Guaranteed Rate Field. “It’s the Drafts that have occurred in previous years, it’s the players that are in the system, it’s the expertise of the staff and what they’re comfortable teaching. 

“But ultimately, you’re looking to bake the best cakes possible. These are the ingredients you have, so bake the best cakes.”

In terms of the ‘24 White Sox starting rotation, Bannister is looking at just two certainties among his ingredients. Dylan Cease, who enters his final ‘23 start Friday with 207 strikeouts, followed by Michael Kopech, whose ‘23 season ended via surgery on Sept. 22 to remove a cyst from his right knee.

That procedure capped off a rough second half for Kopech, when he posted an 8.10 ERA over 14 games and 11 starts. Bannister has a history with the right-hander from their days in the Red Sox organization, before Kopech was part of the Chris Sale trade starting the White Sox rebuild. Bannister served as director of pitching analysis and development and eventually transitioned to the Red Sox coaching staff as the assistant pitching coach in the middle of the 2016 season.

Bannister believes Kopech can be elevated to top starting form. And Kopech looks forward to Bannister’s assistance, supplementing the work he’s done to date.

“I’ve liked Banny since I met him,” Kopech said. “He’s been nothing but good to me as a professional. He can offer a lot with the experience he’s had being with the Sox and Giants. I’m excited to have him on, excited to get to know him more on a personal level. [And] see where that can take my career and, hopefully, take this team.”

“My sweet spot has always been helping pitchers who are either coming off a down year or have lost their identity a little bit, and really getting in there and building trust with them and helping them identify what makes them a productive Major League pitcher and just walking alongside them in that process,” said Bannister, who already has had conversations with Kopech. “I’m a big believer in him.”

[caulfield12]

yet more damning comments about Sox not being present or prepared enough on a daily basis

 

Michael Kopech

“As a starter, it seems like you don’t have to be ready every day. You have to be ready every fifth day, but that’s something that’s not the case,” Kopech said. “You have work every day between starts.

“You have work to do as far as studying hitters, being a professional and going about your work. And not that I didn’t do that, but I could have been more present each day. That’s what I hope to take into the offseason and into next season.”

[Boopa1219]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

looks like Bannister was brought on specifically to save the career of Kopech

per Merkin, mlb.com

 

 

CHICAGO -- Brian Bannister has a philosophy about the origins of putting together a solid pitching staff. Or it’s more of a recipe presented by the new White Sox senior advisor to pitching. 

“You have ingredients in the organization when you get there,” said Bannister, who spoke to the media before a 3-1 White Sox victory over the D-backs on Thursday afternoon at Guaranteed Rate Field. “It’s the Drafts that have occurred in previous years, it’s the players that are in the system, it’s the expertise of the staff and what they’re comfortable teaching. 

“But ultimately, you’re looking to bake the best cakes possible. These are the ingredients you have, so bake the best cakes.”

In terms of the ‘24 White Sox starting rotation, Bannister is looking at just two certainties among his ingredients. Dylan Cease, who enters his final ‘23 start Friday with 207 strikeouts, followed by Michael Kopech, whose ‘23 season ended via surgery on Sept. 22 to remove a cyst from his right knee.

That procedure capped off a rough second half for Kopech, when he posted an 8.10 ERA over 14 games and 11 starts. Bannister has a history with the right-hander from their days in the Red Sox organization, before Kopech was part of the Chris Sale trade starting the White Sox rebuild. Bannister served as director of pitching analysis and development and eventually transitioned to the Red Sox coaching staff as the assistant pitching coach in the middle of the 2016 season.

Bannister believes Kopech can be elevated to top starting form. And Kopech looks forward to Bannister’s assistance, supplementing the work he’s done to date.

“I’ve liked Banny since I met him,” Kopech said. “He’s been nothing but good to me as a professional. He can offer a lot with the experience he’s had being with the Sox and Giants. I’m excited to have him on, excited to get to know him more on a personal level. [And] see where that can take my career and, hopefully, take this team.”

“My sweet spot has always been helping pitchers who are either coming off a down year or have lost their identity a little bit, and really getting in there and building trust with them and helping them identify what makes them a productive Major League pitcher and just walking alongside them in that process,” said Bannister, who already has had conversations with Kopech. “I’m a big believer in him.”

Like Katz, I highly doubt he was hired to coach/fix one player 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Boopa1219 said:

Like Katz, I highly doubt he was hired to coach/fix one player 

But the original focus was his preexisting relationship and trust with Giolito.

Same with Bannister around Kopech and Moncada in 2016.

[Balta1701]

4 hours ago, Boopa1219 said:

Like Katz, I highly doubt he was hired to coach/fix one player 

There’s still a clear and obvious problem. 

This guy is the assistant GM in an organization without a president of baseball operations. Hes one step below where Rick Hahn was for a decade. He has multiple operations to oversee, dozens of employees, salary decisions, player decisions, draft decisions. He should be receiving hundreds of reports yearly on players, performance, new ideas for things to try, all sorts of other things. Those organizational philosophies that we want the White Sox to develop and practice at all levels? It’s his job to help develop and oversee the implementation of those and then find ways to evaluate their effectiveness. This is NOT a guy who should be personally working with pitchers.

When he was first brought into a front office role, working directly with pitchers and bringing in new training techniques was his job. In a management role, his job is to find the people who have positive and helpful new ideas and hire or contract with them to work with his pitchers. To make good decisions at his level that empower the staff who are below him and give them the tools they need to succeed.

These sound like the jobs of assistant pitching coaches and development staff. Or of physical trainers or digital coaches or guys who are software experts. Not of an assistant GM.

He not only can’t possibly do his job well while working with pitchers personally, he shouldn’t even be trying. If he’s working with pitchers directly then he can’t possibly do his other job well: If he is trying to, then we are perfectly set for more of the same. 

[Balta1701]

 

[Dick Allen]

Robert is a star. Other than that.....no stars. If he really believes this, I am going to go out on a limb and say this guy will ultimately be considered a bad hire. He can't be this delusional. 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

 

Watson also said this in Fegan's story:

But an early show of Watson’s connection to the new Sox leadership was his ability to adhere closely to Getz’s expression of confidence that his team has contention-caliber pieces in place, while also specifying that “we are not going to put a timetable on it.”

Tell that to JR.