GREEDY Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 (edited) Has anyone considered the timing with KW/RH finally getting the axe? Right after the deadline. What happened at the deadline that finally got them fired? Did they sell too much? Did they not sell enough? Was the return *that* bad that it was the final straw? I think Jerry wanted more 2023 money off the books and Hahn didn't deliver. You could speculate it might explain why no one was interviewed for the job. The king of minority hiring didn't even bother talking to anyone else. Because Jerry wants to get lean and sell the team. Had he interviewed several of the top candidates that would have leaked. Not to mention, no top candidate wants that job. The plan doesn't leak if he hires his #1 boy who is happy to take the job regardless of the walking papers. I've tied this speculation in here because I expect payroll to go down.... not stay at 190. Edited November 6, 2023 by GREEDY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Lucas Love all based upon 2024 Friends & Family coaching staff combination miraculously outdueling money/years??? To pitch for the worst team in baseball? A Top 15-20 FA (at worst) in this market still? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 46 minutes ago, GREEDY said: Has anyone considered the timing with KW/RH finally getting the axe? Right after the deadline. What happened at the deadline that finally got them fired? Did they sell too much? Did they not sell enough? Was the return *that* bad that it was the final straw? I think Jerry wanted more 2023 money off the books and Hahn didn't deliver. You could speculate it might explain why no one was interviewed for the job. The king of minority hiring didn't even bother talking to anyone else. Because Jerry wants to get lean and sell the team. Had he interviewed several of the top candidates that would have leaked. Not to mention, no top candidate wants that job. The plan doesn't leak if he hires his #1 boy who is happy to take the job regardless of the walking papers. I've tied this speculation in here because I expect payroll to go down.... not stay at 190. Jerry isn't selling while he is alive. He has made that abundantly clear. The capital gains tax hit on selling would be in the neighborhood of 200 million dollars AND that doesn't count what he'd have to pay in Illinois state tax. He's an incredibly astute business person, he's not stupid enough to want to pay that penalty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Jerry isn't selling while he is alive. He has made that abundantly clear. The capital gains tax hit on selling would be in the neighborhood of 200 million dollars AND that doesn't count what he'd have to pay in Illinois state tax. He's an incredibly astute business person, he's not stupid enough to want to pay that penalty. too bad he's stupid at baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 31 minutes ago, kitekrazy said: too bad he's stupid at baseball Agreed. He thinks he's smarter than everyone in the room when it comes to baseball. History shows he isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 48 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Jerry isn't selling while he is alive. He has made that abundantly clear. The capital gains tax hit on selling would be in the neighborhood of 200 million dollars AND that doesn't count what he'd have to pay in Illinois state tax. He's an incredibly astute business person, he's not stupid enough to want to pay that penalty. It's so funny he constantly says it's a tough business, you can't make any money, yet he won't sell because he'll make too much money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthSideGeorgia Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Is Giolito’s ex still in Chicago…?! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 6, 2023 Author Share Posted November 6, 2023 2 hours ago, ChiSoxJon said: Won't happen, but Hader (4/$80), Hoskins (1/$17), Lee Jung-Hoo (4/$56), Hicks (4/$36), Flaherty (1/$15), Maeda (1/$10), and Maenea (1/$12) would make this ball club significantly more enjoyable Of course this team attracts nobody and possesses a weak roster under poor management and even poorer ownership that won't spend Just out of curiosity, who you trading between AV and Eloy to make room for Hoskins? I just feel like those are the 2 guys left with legitimate untapped potential that both are at or near all time lows in trade value. I feel like AV and Eloy need to stay as you're not getting much in return and they are the two guys who something could click and become the 125+ wRC+ player the Sox need them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 34 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Just out of curiosity, who you trading between AV and Eloy to make room for Hoskins? I just feel like those are the 2 guys left with legitimate untapped potential that both are at or near all time lows in trade value. I feel like AV and Eloy need to stay as you're not getting much in return and they are the two guys who something could click and become the 125+ wRC+ player the Sox need them to be. Hoskins >>> either Vaughn or Eloy so it doesn't matter... But hopefully you could dump Eloy and his injury prone, lazy self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Alright, I'm gonna try and do this with the "We're Not in a Rebuild Mode and Jerry supposedly spends money on a Suicide Squad" Using Spotrac estimates Total rotation for a team that sniffs that wild card at best: $162.2 Rotation = $57.6 Cease - $8.3 million Jordan Montgomery - $80 million / 4 years (might get 5 years from another team so eh?) Giolito - 2 years, $25 million. Opt-out after one year. Flaherty - 2 years, $25 million. Opt-out after one year. Kopech - $4.3 million Bullpen - $15.8 M CL: ReyLo (Can't break him and Gio up) - $18 million / 3 years SU: Bummer - $5.5 million SU: Santos - $770,000 MR: Garcia - $770,000 MR: Leasure MP: Patino - $770,000 LR: Toussaint - $1.2 million Lineup (in no particular order): $85.8 1B - Vaughn - $4.1M 2B - Merrifield - $30M / 3 years - did higher than spotrac, because he's getting a former Royal bump He'll bounce around 2B and the OF, with Grifol calling him a "perfect utility starter" like TLR did Leury SS - Sosa - Pre-Arb 3B - Moncada - $24.8M - lol LF - Benintendi - $17.1M CF - Robert - $12.5M RF - Adam Duvall - $15M / 2 years - slightly higher cause he had a good year and it just feels like a Sox signing C - Victor Caratini - $10M / 2 years DH - Eloy - $13.8M Bench: 1.5M This would probably change based on, for example, Colson getting called up. But I expect hell to start the season. C - Lee - Pre-Arb 1B/"OF" - Sheets - Pre-Arb IF - Hypothetically Romy - $770,000 OF - Haseley - $770,000 AAA depth of note that may start the season in AAA or will be there pretty soon: $1.5M SP/RP: Crochet - $770,000 SP: Burke - Building arm strength in games with Crochet SP: Nastrini SP: Martin SP: Thompson SP: Mena SP: Scholtens - I know I listed 6-7 guys but idk they'll figure it out RP: Peralta RP: Ramsey RP: Banks - $770,000 C : Quero C : Hackenberg C : Perez 2B: Rodriguez SS: Montgomery 3B: Ramos RF: Colas (Grifol is not letting him on the OD roster) 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 6, 2023 Author Share Posted November 6, 2023 35 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Hoskins >>> either Vaughn or Eloy so it doesn't matter... But hopefully you could dump Eloy and his injury prone, lazy self. I don't disagree that Hoskins is better than AV or Eloy, and I also know you're over Eloy (and I certainly get why), but I don't really see what the benefit of dumping Eloy for little return is. May as well just hope he stays healthy and produces, and if he does and the Sox still suck, you're getting more for him in July than now. If he gets hurt like he always does, you're in the same spot anyways. No one is giving up anything of note for Eloy this offseason. The upside of keeping him far outweighs whatever meh prospect they'd get for him and $13.8M more dollars in JR's coffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Just now, ChiSox59 said: I don't disagree that Hoskins is better than AV or Eloy, and I also know you're over Eloy (and I certainly get why), but I don't really see what the benefit of dumping Eloy for little return is. May as well just hope he stays healthy and produces, and if he does and the Sox still suck, you're getting more for him in July than now. If he gets hurt like he always does, you're in the same spot anyways. No one is giving up anything of note for Eloy this offseason. The upside of keeping him far outweighs whatever meh prospect they'd get for him and $13.8M more dollars in JR's coffer. I'm extremely interested in cleaning up the clubhouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 6, 2023 Author Share Posted November 6, 2023 36 minutes ago, Quin said: Alright, I'm gonna try and do this with the "We're Not in a Rebuild Mode and Jerry supposedly spends money on a Suicide Squad" Using Spotrac estimates Total rotation for a team that sniffs that wild card at best: $162.2 Rotation = $57.6 Cease - $8.3 million Jordan Montgomery - $80 million / 4 years (might get 5 years from another team so eh?) Giolito - 2 years, $25 million. Opt-out after one year. Flaherty - 2 years, $25 million. Opt-out after one year. Kopech - $4.3 million Bullpen - $15.8 M CL: ReyLo (Can't break him and Gio up) - $18 million / 3 years SU: Bummer - $5.5 million SU: Santos - $770,000 MR: Garcia - $770,000 MR: Leasure MP: Patino - $770,000 LR: Toussaint - $1.2 million Lineup (in no particular order): $85.8 1B - Vaughn - $4.1M 2B - Merrifield - $30M / 3 years - did higher than spotrac, because he's getting a former Royal bump He'll bounce around 2B and the OF, with Grifol calling him a "perfect utility starter" like TLR did Leury SS - Sosa - Pre-Arb 3B - Moncada - $24.8M - lol LF - Benintendi - $17.1M CF - Robert - $12.5M RF - Adam Duvall - $15M / 2 years - slightly higher cause he had a good year and it just feels like a Sox signing C - Victor Caratini - $10M / 2 years DH - Eloy - $13.8M Bench: 1.5M This would probably change based on, for example, Colson getting called up. But I expect hell to start the season. C - Lee - Pre-Arb 1B/"OF" - Sheets - Pre-Arb IF - Hypothetically Romy - $770,000 OF - Haseley - $770,000 AAA depth of note that may start the season in AAA or will be there pretty soon: $1.5M SP/RP: Crochet - $770,000 SP: Burke - Building arm strength in games with Crochet SP: Nastrini SP: Martin SP: Thompson SP: Mena SP: Scholtens - I know I listed 6-7 guys but idk they'll figure it out RP: Peralta RP: Ramsey RP: Banks - $770,000 C : Quero C : Hackenberg C : Perez 2B: Rodriguez SS: Montgomery 3B: Ramos RF: Colas (Grifol is not letting him on the OD roster) Duval would be great signing and is a actually a natural platoon partner for Colas, if the org isn't completely done with him like some think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 6, 2023 Author Share Posted November 6, 2023 Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said: I'm extremely interested in cleaning up the clubhouse Fair. They're well on their way to doing that, so you just may get your wish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 The clubhouse seems more like a Pedro excuse. The Sox have Eloy and Vaughn for multiple years, if they want them. No reason to jettison them for dimes on the dollar to make room for a player coming off of an ACL. I'd spend the $ on short-term pitching, so that the Sox don't get blasted ever night. Also trade for a young outfielder, given that the pipeline is really thin at that position. I keep reading that the Cardinals have "outfield depth"; I guess "Depth" is in the eye of the beholder as most seem to have not done well in the majors, but maybe pick one of those guys up cheap and hope for a rebound. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 42 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: I'm extremely interested in cleaning up the clubhouse Get a dozen or so 3-5 + bWAR players, and another dozen decent players / depth and you'll have a solid clubhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 38 minutes ago, GreenSox said: The clubhouse seems more like a Pedro excuse. The Sox have Eloy and Vaughn for multiple years, if they want them. No reason to jettison them for dimes on the dollar to make room for a player coming off of an ACL. I'd spend the $ on short-term pitching, so that the Sox don't get blasted ever night. Also trade for a young outfielder, given that the pipeline is really thin at that position. I keep reading that the Cardinals have "outfield depth"; I guess "Depth" is in the eye of the beholder as most seem to have not done well in the majors, but maybe pick one of those guys up cheap and hope for a rebound. Lars Nootbaar would be a fantastic get, so fantastic that Chris Getz won’t even consider it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: Just out of curiosity, who you trading between AV and Eloy to make room for Hoskins? I just feel like those are the 2 guys left with legitimate untapped potential that both are at or near all time lows in trade value. I feel like AV and Eloy need to stay as you're not getting much in return and they are the two guys who something could click and become the 125+ wRC+ player the Sox need them to be. I live in a pipe dream where we keep all 3...I just think someone is going to get unbelievable value on Hoskins this year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 I pay attention mildly to the Sox these days for social reasons more than me caring. I enjoy this board and the banter, and a lot of my friends are Sox fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 k so if I am chris getz, my goals for the year: - Learn whether your new pitching group is capable of getting value out of lower-mid tier free agent pitchers from your pro scouting group - Do not sacrifice defense for marginally better offense. You have a bunch of young pitchers likely to integrate this year and providing them with good defense & a veteran battery should be there to help. - Make some investments in longer term pieces and don't sign older players who are likely to be on their last stop because you like the cut of their jib. Spotrac Current Sal: $115M Using Spotrac Market Estimate (which is garbage ) Paul DeJong $3,000,000 Isiah Kiner-Falefa $6,000,000 Jason Delay $750,000.00 (TRADE: Pittsburgh is going to put Henry Davis behind the plate with Endy. I like Delay! Hopefully he costs just a minor international player, like a Tatis Jr) Jung Hoo Lee $18,000,000 5 years, $90M Pitchers Sean Manaea $18,000,000 2 years, $40 Million with $5 million player option buyout) Lucas Giolito $11,000,000 Brad Keller $6,000,000 Bullpen Pitchers Jordan Hicks $3,500,000 Brent Suter $3,500,000 Total: $185,750,000 I think I posted in wrong thread but this is in the half-ass compete territory) Lineup: C - Jason Delay / Korey Lee / Carlos Perez / the rest of the boys 1B - Andrew Fawn (because he hits like a baby deer) 2b - Kiner-Falefa / integrate sosa/jose rodriguez SS - Paul DeJong / integrate sosa/jose rodriguez / Colson in Sept 3b - Yoan Moncada / integrate Bryan Ramos Later LF - Andrew Benintendi - because you can't do anything else CF - Luis Robert RF - Jung Hoo Lee / Gavin Sheets DH - Eloy Jimenez P Dylan Cease Sean Manaea Lucas Giolito Brad Keller "Michael Kopech" -> Nastrini et al BP: (need a bunch of minor league signings too) Gregory Santos BUMmer Jordan Hicks Brent Suter Crochet Deivi Garcia / Ramsey (who is tall) / all the rest of the trash Rule 5 pick 46 wins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 ok good i was in the right thread 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 I love how everyone's like "Sure I just spent $75 million but maybe this team could hang round .500 at best". FWIW, I started trying to have the White Sox corner the entire trade market and trade away their entire system, and I ran into a brick wall. I brought in Soto, Adames and Burnes from Milwaukee, but then I ran into the wall. I'd traded away all 3 of their top 100 prospects in those 2 deals, but I'd added in about $45 million already. If I tried to go for Glasgow, I could probably still do it, but I'd have to absorb a $25 million it. If I tried to trade for someone cheaper, I could probably do it, but they leave me with a still weaker rotation than what I needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 2 hours ago, GreenSox said: The clubhouse seems more like a Pedro excuse. The Sox have Eloy and Vaughn for multiple years, if they want them. No reason to jettison them for dimes on the dollar to make room for a player coming off of an ACL. I'd spend the $ on short-term pitching, so that the Sox don't get blasted ever night. Also trade for a young outfielder, given that the pipeline is really thin at that position. I keep reading that the Cardinals have "outfield depth"; I guess "Depth" is in the eye of the beholder as most seem to have not done well in the majors, but maybe pick one of those guys up cheap and hope for a rebound. Well...Adolis Garcia and Arozarena almost provided two separate WS winners on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 You can't possibly be serious about competing with either Santos or Lopez as your closer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: I love how everyone's like "Sure I just spent $75 million but maybe this team could hang round .500 at best". FWIW, I started trying to have the White Sox corner the entire trade market and trade away their entire system, and I ran into a brick wall. I brought in Soto, Adames and Burnes from Milwaukee, but then I ran into the wall. I'd traded away all 3 of their top 100 prospects in those 2 deals, but I'd added in about $45 million already. If I tried to go for Glasgow, I could probably still do it, but I'd have to absorb a $25 million it. If I tried to trade for someone cheaper, I could probably do it, but they leave me with a still weaker rotation than what I needed. Yeah, I can't stress how much I expect a "we're waiting for Colson, Ramos and company to lead us to our next contention window" message, so I pretty much built Stop Gap: The Team 51 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: You can't possibly be serious about competing with either Santos or Lopez as your closer... Did you miss the part where I wrote "wild card at best" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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