2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

It might sound like me moving the goalposts, but looking at the return I’m convinced Getz was told to take the best pitching package he could get. Two near top 100 pitchers might be the best pitching offer made. I’m holding to that caveat because I still think Cease should have brought back at least one top 50 positional prospect. 

I would buy this also, which would tell you a lot about who the actual GM is right?

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

All right, harder one for I think everyone - 

When the Baltimore deal went down, I said that the return wasn't so big that you'd say "This destroys the White Sox if they turned it down and then Cease got hurt." I would stand by that, no reason to rush to that deal.

If the White Sox turned this down and Cease got hurt, it feels like this is a minor bit of damage but not a lot. It feels to me like this isn't such a heavy return that you'd think it would dramatically change the White Sox's rebuild schedule if they held onto Cease and he got hurt. Some additional depth, but question marks on everyone. That, to me, seems like a reasonable standard for doing a deal now - it would have to return so much that it's not worth waiting to the deadline.

Anyone disagree? Was this a deal we couldn't afford to turn down? If so, care to explain? Happy to listen.

I think $200 to $500 million dollar deals has changed the game.  Teams don’t want to give up their top prospects if they are also rated top 50 prospects in the MLB.  They know they can’t afford to buy these potentially top players in free agency so they are more willing to give up a larger quantity package of their slightly lower rated prospects in trades.

Edited March 14, 20242 yr by WhiteSox2023

Just now, Balta1701 said:

I would buy this also, which would tell you a lot about who the actual GM is right?

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some truth to this as well.  We all know how JR feels about signing free agent pitchers to multi-year contracts.  It doesn’t happen.  The proven is, position players are getting more and more money as well.  So who will the Sox ever sign in free agency other than over-the-hill veterans?

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

All right, harder one for I think everyone - 

When the Baltimore deal went down, I said that the return wasn't so big that you'd say "This destroys the White Sox if they turned it down and then Cease got hurt." I would stand by that, no reason to rush to that deal.

If the White Sox turned this down and Cease got hurt, it feels like this is a minor bit of damage but not a lot. It feels to me like this isn't such a heavy return that you'd think it would dramatically change the White Sox's rebuild schedule if they held onto Cease and he got hurt. Some additional depth, but question marks on everyone. That, to me, seems like a reasonable standard for doing a deal now - it would have to return so much that it's not worth waiting to the deadline.

Anyone disagree? Was this a deal we couldn't afford to turn down? If so, care to explain? Happy to listen.

I wouldn’t turn this down. This team is an absolute disaster. Thorpe is a top 100 guy, Iriarte is right there on the top 100 border. Zavala is a 19 year old lefty with an extremely high ceiling. Walked 94 times last year, power increased each year, steals bases, has a cannon for an arm.

people really would rather have snelling and two fillers over this? Insane to me with the state of this organization. 

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Sure but what did they have after the top guys? Just seemed like a barren wasteland. I’m hoping that in addition to 10-12 top prospects getz is able to build additional depth beyond that. And, hopefully, he will also be more effective in free agency when it’s time to spend serious money.

Hell, from that point they added 2 more top 5 picks and a top 15 pick before their first playoff appearance. 

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If he's not a CF defensively then this is a much weaker deal because a dozen minor league HR but a decent A-ball OBP is a Benintendi-type corner outfielder, unless he grows into more power with age?

 

Oh dear. The excitement for the deal hinges on Zavala having CF upside totally for me.

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I think $200 to $500 million dollar deals has changed the game.  Teams don’t want to give up their top prospects if they’re are top 50 prospects in the MLB.  They know they can’t afford to buy these potentially top players in free agency so they are more willing to give up a larger quantity package of their slightly lower rated prospects.

My guess based on last year was that teams would be more willing to give up those prospects if they were sitting in a playoff spot in July and Cease was sitting there with a 2.85 ERA.

I will explain why I like the Burnes deal more than this one: 

1. I am very leery of soft tossing RHP

2. Hall and Ortiz are going to reach the majors, they don't need more development. 

3. I feel like you could get a similar prospect to Zavala with the 34th pick in the draft

Hall has more upside than either of the pitchers they got in this deal, even if a bit older. 

 

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

My guess based on last year was that teams would be more willing to give up those prospects if they were sitting in a playoff spot in July and Cease was sitting there with a 2.85 ERA.

Yeah I'm with ya Balta, I would have waited. 

Does it give any of you pause that you have to rely on your development system in a big way for this deal to pay off?

12 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Nah.   This is on balance relatively weak.

Snelling should be the headliner. Zavala is interesting and very advanced for age. Wish he had more power projection.

I wouldn't say Preller destroyed Getz, but he did, at a minimum, give him a bad cold.

Either way, I think @Balta1701 and @baseball_gal_aly are basically right on balance.

Sad but true. 

We got a SP ranked in the 60’s, another SP ranked in the 90 to 120 range, and a kid that is likely in the 100 to 150 range.  That’s way more than those two were expecting no matter how much they want to spin this.  I wouldn’t use the word “steep” to describe it, but I think it’s a roughly fair return and much more than what we would have gotten if opposing GMs valued him as the 2023 version.

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Does it give any of you pause that you have to rely on your development system in a big way for this deal to pay off?

Abso-freaking-lutely

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Hell, from that point they added 2 more top 5 picks and a top 15 pick before their first playoff appearance. 

They were a great team in 2020 and 2021 but the competitive window should have lasted another couple years. That’s on a Hahn as well as scouting / player development. Time will tell if that has improved any under the current regime.

40 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I don’t think it’s terrible. Some values are a bit goofy but it’s aligning pretty well on recent trades when I’ve checked it. A similar Orioles package value-wise would have been Kjerstad+Norby+Beavers. Also would have been slightly underwhelming imo but I know many Orioles fans would have been very pissed about giving up that much for Cease,

I think Kjerstad , Norby and Beavers would have been received better by the fan base. We like hitters more than pitchers. Of course I really like Beavers. Think his stock is rising. Kjerstad and Beavers both could be the LH savages.

2 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I will explain why I like the Burnes deal more than this one: 

1. I am very leery of soft tossing RHP

2. Hall and Ortiz are going to reach the majors, they don't need more development. 

3. I feel like you could get a similar prospect to Zavala with the 34th pick in the draft

Hall has more upside than either of the pitchers they got in this deal, even if a bit older. 

 

Are you trying to win in 2024? If so, I would agree with you but that’s not the situation the Sox are in, not even remotely close to it.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

My guess based on last year was that teams would be more willing to give up those prospects if they were sitting in a playoff spot in July and Cease was sitting there with a 2.85 ERA.

Sure. The Sox definitely moved quickly on this as soon as Cease showed some performance though. If the deal was lacking, and it kinda is, if they had confidence Cease was gonna be there in July, they probably would have waited. They way they jumped on this suggests they viewed it as too much of a gamble?

While the return doesn't blow me away I think people are vastly underrating Thorpe. The kid has some elite numbers that tend to transfer over to the big leagues. Zavala as a 19 year old put up a .420 OBP in low A ball and played CF. 

 

Thorpe probably slides in as our #2 and Zavala might be our #4 best prospect and probably no lower than #5.

 

Note: I do believe Schultz will probably be out best pitching prospect by end of year, but right now you have to put Thorpe slightly ahead of him on production alone.

Just now, RudyLawRules said:

 

 

70 grade facial hair.

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Are you trying to win in 2024? If so, I would agree with you but that’s not the situation the Sox are in, not even remotely close to it.

No, but I thought that the goal was to turn this around as quickly as possible. 

Just now, RudyLawRules said:

 

 

At least we got a top tier mustache back to replace Cease’s

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Does it give any of you pause that you have to rely on your development system in a big way for this deal to pay off?

Yes, definitely.

Bold statement I know, but chances are the Sox are projecting some of the players involved differently than we are.

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think Kjerstad , Norby and Beavers would have been received better by the fan base. We like hitters more than pitchers. Of course I really like Beavers. Think his stock is rising. Kjerstad and Beavers both could be the LH savages.

I think you’re right because I was one of the few posters advocating for a pitching heavy return in a cease trade. As mentioned this morning, my ideal return was Snelling + Thorpe + low level prospect. Got Iriarte and Zavala instead of Snelling so that’s a little disappointing to me but who knows it might work out.

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Does it give any of you pause that you have to rely on your development system in a big way for this deal to pay off?

Does it give you pause that after the news broke you sprinted here to try and get your rocks off?