3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Why do you care? Why can't it be possible that when the Sox were at the height of their competitive window, they bid the highest on a free agent, and he took less money to go elsewhere? 

Seriously, if you have evidence that did not happen, let us know. Otherwise, I can only assume all of this is in service of the popular narrative, here. 

This “successful” argument will sell exactly how many 2025 season tickets…?

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Why do you care? Why can't it be possible that when the Sox were at the height of their competitive window, they bid the highest on a free agent, and he took less money to go elsewhere? 

Seriously, if you have evidence that did not happen, let us know. Otherwise, I can only assume all of this is in service of the popular narrative, here. 

Why can't it be possible that the White Sox were outbid but Hahn and Williams didn't want to say this because they knew it made them look bad after the exact same thing happening the year beforehand with Machado. Where is your statement from Wheeler or Wheeler's family that they turned down more money for Philly? You demand evidence from me that I shouldn't trust them, give me the evidence that makes you trust them.

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

This “successful” argument will sell exactly how many 2025 season tickets…?

I don't know what you mean. Is Balta invested in suppressing season ticket sales? 

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I don't know what you mean. Is Balta invested in suppressing season ticket sales? 

Yes I am.

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Why can't it be possible that the White Sox were outbid but Hahn and Williams didn't want to say this because they knew it made them look bad after the exact same thing happening the year beforehand with Machado. Where is your statement from Wheeler or Wheeler's family that they turned down more money for Philly? You demand evidence from me that I shouldn't trust them, give me the evidence that makes you trust them.

I gave you the evidence. The White Sox made a claim about Wheeler's side, and Wheeler's side let that comment stand. The end. 

13 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Why do you care? Why can't it be possible that when the Sox were at the height of their competitive window, they bid the highest on a free agent, and he took less money to go elsewhere? 

Seriously, if you have evidence that did not happen, let us know. Otherwise, I can only assume all of this is in service of the popular narrative, here. 

Because the Sox former Executive Vice President was a goofball, and you would be foolish to believe anything he or Hahn said.

Kenny literally tried to say that an 8-year contract worth $250 million guaranteed, with non-guaranteed Incentives and option years that could push the total value to $350 million was a better offer than 10-years, $300 million guaranteed with an opt-out after the 5th year.

Kenny and Hahn were lying fools.  Oh yes, “the money will be spent”…  until it wasn’t.

Edited November 9, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I gave you the evidence. The White Sox made a claim about Wheeler's side, and Wheeler's side let that comment stand. The end. 

So you have no evidence but Hahn and KW's honorable word. Exactly. 

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I gave you the evidence. The White Sox made a claim about Wheeler's side, and Wheeler's side let that comment stand. The end. 

No player/agent is ever going to burn one of the teams that might potentially sign them in the future…Economics 101.

5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Because the Sox former Executive Vice President was a goofball, and you would be foolish to believe anything he or Hahn said.

Kenny literally tried to say that an 8-year contract worth $250 million guaranteed, with non-guaranteed Incentives and option years that could push the total value to $350 million was a better offer than 10-years, $300 million guaranteed with an opt-out after the 5th year.

Kenny and Hahn were lying fools.  Oh yes, “the money will be spent”…  until it wasn’t.

The money will be spent on all the wrong 30+ veterans instead of stars in their primes…and, most weirdly, the bullpen fixation while neglecting gaping holes in RF and 2B.

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

No player/agent is ever going to burn one of the teams that might potentially sign them in the future…Economics 101.

Exactly.  But you can 100% believe our former dynamic front office clown duo.  A couple guys that couldn’t even hire their own manager in their supposed competitive window.  Continually neutered by their risk-averse boss, while constantly fluffing up how great of an owner he was.

28 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

No player/agent is ever going to burn one of the teams that might potentially sign them in the future…Economics 101.

Oh well. So they won't "burn" a client by disproving a public claim. I guess that means they accede to it's truthfulness. 

34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So you have no evidence but Hahn and KW's honorable word. Exactly. 

All so they could save face with angry Sox fans for each and every big free agent failure (Machado, Harper, Wheeler)..

“Our offer to Manny was better…”

”Our offer to Wheeler was higher…”

Did you end up signing any of them?

”Nope.”

Edited November 9, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

58 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Albert Belle was signed to deliberately point out the foolishness of such contracts to other owners…luckily they found a sucker in Balt. 

 

Thomas’ came after the best 7-8 year run of a RH hitter in modern baseball history and also had the infamous “diminished skills clause” attached despite that aforementioned run of greatness.
 

7 years/$64.4M (1998-2004), plus club options for 2005, 2006

• 99:$7.15M, 00:$7.25M, 01:$10.375M, 02:$10.3M, 03:$10.3M, 04:$10.3M, 05:$10.3M option, 06:$10.3M option

• White Sox invoked “diminished skills clause” 10/02, allowing the club to defer $10.124M/year if Thomas did not make the All Star team, win a Silver Slugger award or rank in the top 10 of MVP vote for 2002. Thomas filed for free agency 10/02 before agreeing to re

I forgot about the diminished skills clause.  JR is evil.

Not sure if it’s been posted but apparently there is a Bob article stating the Sox are likely to trade him before the end of the winter meetings with the Dodgers and Phillies currently being the most aggressive in talks.

4 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Not sure if it’s been posted but apparently there is a Bob article stating the Sox are likely to trade him before the end of the winter meetings with the Dodgers and Phillies currently being the most aggressive in talks.

Not a surprise.  They likely don’t want to go into ST with Crochet like they did with Cease and risk injury to their last remaining really good trade bait.  Getz is probably hoping Crochet can net him an entirely new starting lineup.  🤣

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Albert Belle was signed to deliberately point out the foolishness of such contracts to other owners…luckily they found a sucker in Balt. 

 

Thomas’ came after the best 7-8 year run of a RH hitter in modern baseball history and also had the infamous “diminished skills clause” attached despite that aforementioned run of greatness.
 

7 years/$64.4M (1998-2004), plus club options for 2005, 2006

• 99:$7.15M, 00:$7.25M, 01:$10.375M, 02:$10.3M, 03:$10.3M, 04:$10.3M, 05:$10.3M option, 06:$10.3M option

• White Sox invoked “diminished skills clause” 10/02, allowing the club to defer $10.124M/year if Thomas did not make the All Star team, win a Silver Slugger award or rank in the top 10 of MVP vote for 2002. Thomas filed for free agency 10/02 before agreeing to re

This is true and that’s why Belle was signed to that contract but his second season with the Sox was up there with Frank in his prime.  That corked bag of Joey’s was hitting dongs.

My prediction: Crochett to Phillies for 3 prospects NOT named Miller, Painter or Crawford 

9 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

My prediction: Crochett to Phillies for 3 prospects NOT named Miller, Painter or Crawford 

Getz has to get at least one top 3 team prospect for Crochet or the trade would be an utter failure.

Edited November 9, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Getz has to get at least one top 3 team prospect for Crochet or the trade would be an utter failure.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that’s what I want to happen, but that’s what I can definitely see happening. Hopefully that’s just my beaten down brain, but I do also struggle to see a team giving up any kind of “blockbuster: top of the rotation” type package for Crochet. 
 

Caba, Abel and Buckholder. I can see something like that being enticing to Getz while also being ideal for the Phillies. And it’s honestly not terrible, but would rely a whole lot on being able to “fix” Abel and get the best out of him. But that also seems to be a Getz theme of his targets.

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Getz has to get at least one top 3 team prospect for Crochet or the trade would be an utter failure.

 

 

1 hour ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

My prediction: Crochett to Phillies for 3 prospects NOT named Miller, Painter or Crawford 

Awful result but predictable. 

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Albert Belle was signed to deliberately point out the foolishness of such contracts to other owners…luckily they found a sucker in Balt. 

 

Thomas’ came after the best 7-8 year run of a RH hitter in modern baseball history and also had the infamous “diminished skills clause” attached despite that aforementioned run of greatness.
 

7 years/$64.4M (1998-2004), plus club options for 2005, 2006

• 99:$7.15M, 00:$7.25M, 01:$10.375M, 02:$10.3M, 03:$10.3M, 04:$10.3M, 05:$10.3M option, 06:$10.3M option

• White Sox invoked “diminished skills clause” 10/02, allowing the club to defer $10.124M/year if Thomas did not make the All Star team, win a Silver Slugger award or rank in the top 10 of MVP vote for 2002. Thomas filed for free agency 10/02 before agreeing to re

Yes and no.

More to the point JR signed Belle to that deal because he was angry that the other MLB owners voted to settle the labor dispute after Judge Sotomoyer ruled they were not negotiating in good faith.

In fact during the press conference reporters specifically asked JR about the motivation for the deal and JR said that (paraphrasing) 'If the other owners weren't going to look out for baseball he was going to look out for his team...'

As an aside JR also said he asked Frank Thomas his opinion on if the Sox should sign Belle or Barry Bonds and Frank said Belle.

Belle put up staggering numbers for the Sox. But JR (naturally) protected himself by allowing the clause that Belle had to be one of the three highest paid players in the game or he could become a free agent. When Rickey Henderson (I think) got his big deal that moved Belle out of the top three and invoked the clause which JR never intended to honor in order to keep him.

As a follow up to that situation Thomas took a little less money on his deal thinking the Sox would use it to keep Belle AND Ventura. The Sox did neither which pissed off Frank.

Remember JR always has to "win" at negotiations even if it hurts the team on the field.   

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Yes I am.

Hate to break it to you but are no Reinsdorf

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The money will be spent on all the wrong 30+ veterans instead of stars in their primes…and, most weirdly, the bullpen fixation while neglecting gaping holes in RF and 2B.

Most likely NL veterans that can't adjust to the AL.

The agent confirmed the Zach Wheeler story. It is what it is though. The White Sox offered 5/125 and they were given an indication by the agent that they had a deal. Wheeler changed his mind and went to Philly instead. The agency wanted to save face with the White Sox so they put out that the Sox had the higher offer. This is old news. 
 

In regards to Manny Machado and Bryce Harper, those are ownership decisions. There’s not much Rick Hahn and Ken Williams could do there without being able to convince Jerry Reinsdorf to go to $300 million. Again, old news.