It sucks to hear but I get it. The season is over when it starts. You got 6 months of that bs. It sucks.

7 minutes ago, Quin said:

Ok, let's flip this:

You make your entire career earnings - in Kopech's case, that was not looking like a lot - by age 35 or so. You've got no practical real world skills. You've been ripped to shreds by fans and analysts while you struggled mentally and physically. He was amped and excited when he came up.

Hell, people ripped Burger to shreds for years for his Achilles injuries because he like, enjoyed video games. It's a miracle he turned it around.

I have more empathy and sympathy for a man/woman working 40+ hours trying to make a good living then the individual in your scenario.  I not naive and understand that sports athletes go through lots of mental and emotional struggles, however their struggles come with certain opportunities that the guy/gal working 40+ hours a week aren't afforded.   

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This is honest to god, complete bullshit. It is not human nature to not try in your career OR at a game when things aren't going well. It not human nature to not try to get the most out of what you've been given.

I've been in circumstances you lay out and I certainly didn't degrade my own self standards because of the subpar standards or outputs of others.

It would be great if we lived in a world where this was true...but it's not. 

32 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

I have more empathy and sympathy for a man/woman working 40+ hours trying to make a good living then the individual in your scenario.  I not naive and understand that sports athletes go through lots of mental and emotional struggles, however their struggles come with certain opportunities that the guy/gal working 40+ hours a week aren't afforded.   

That doesn't change the mental grind of whatever you are doing on your mindset.

2 hours ago, Quin said:

I need to introduce you to so, so many people.

Lol this is fair. I should have used passion or something meaningful.

Playing for the White Sox, in a nutshell…

“So to have that call at the trade deadline be like, ‘You’re going to the Dodgers,’ it was like, ‘OK, now baseball is starting.’ I was in a position to where I hate to say I was going through the motions. You know you’re not playing for anything other than your own career, and when you don’t want to play a selfish game because it’s not a selfish game, it makes it really hard.

1 hour ago, 2Deep said:

100% agree on the bolded

I disagree on other aspects.

I chimed in after @Look at Ray Ray Run posted the following.......I 100%agree with what Ray said.  A guy playing professional sports who has accomplished nothing going through the motions.  

"I was in a position to where I hate to say I was going through the motions. You know you’re not playing for anything other than your own career, and when you don’t want to play a selfish game because it’s not a selfish game, it makes it really hard."

The head on Kopech's shoulders is not one I'd want to trade places with. For a professional athlete who has proven nothing to go through the motions is fascinating, and also a huge red flag. If I was a GM, I'd never sign a guy who admits such a thing to any contract.

Eh, I'd say this is true of quite a few pro athletes. Probably at least 1/3. Even when I got into low level college ball you had guys that were on the team because dad wanted it or they felt obligated to play. Yea most of the team loved baseball but even at that level when you're spending 20-30 hours a week on it between practice and games it gets tedious.

So a pro athlete can get trapped in that mindset like Kopech where it's become just a job they aren't really enjoying. There is some interesting new sports psych that is going into a "value neutral mindset". It's focused on getting athletes to look a their results over a long enough time period to not hyper focus on each outcome, good or bad. For Michael, who is a known headcase, this would be hugely beneficial. Easier said than done of course.

I'm more upset about the Sox total complete dysfunction than I am with Kopech's comments. Not to say what he said doesn't bother me, but that's more reflective of what has happened to this franchise.

22 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I'm more upset about the Sox total complete dysfunction than I am with Kopech's comments. Not to say what he said doesn't bother me, but that's more reflective of what has happened to this franchise.

Other than Jordan and a fluky 2005 season for the Sox, he’s been one of the worst owners in two sports.

So Robert saying he actually haf thoughts of retiring in the middle of this season isn't as bad as Kopech?

Kopech has already taken off the Covid year partially to deal with mental health/personal issues...his life has been a fish bowl existence even as a legendary high schooler in Texas.  A number of his dating/relationship choices weren't ideal...

But by this argument Tim Anderson was the "weakest" for being completely out of the sport at age 31/32 partially due to mental health/off-field issues.

 

One of the biggest head cases ever in a Sox uniform. 

4 minutes ago, Soxfest said:

One of the biggest head cases ever in a Sox uniform. 

Welcome to Soxtalk, when did you become a White Sox fan? 

3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Other than Jordan and a fluky 2005 season for the Sox, he’s been one of the worst owners in two sports.

He wasn’t even involved with the Bulls when Michael came to the org 

I think almost everyone agrees that it's expected that players will lack motivation and mail it in on such a losing team.

So as the manager what would you do to change that? I nice speech before each game? Yelling?

JR needed to pay these guys more to really motivate them? 

 

I would still not trust Kopech as a Closer.  You know his pattern.. if he doesn't get high strike calls on the first two pitches, trouble often finds him later in the count. But man oh man, did he ever cash in and is he ever happy. Can't take the WS ring away.

 

Kopech was given every opportunity to succeed on a team that, despite all it's flaws, is actually pretty good at developing pitching, and he failed every time. His life was a mess, and he trained like an idiot. Kopech's failures aren't on the White Sox. 

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

Kopech was given every opportunity to succeed on a team that, despite all its flaws, is actually pretty good at developing pitching, and he failed every time. His life was a mess, and he trained like an idiot. Kopech's failures aren't on the White Sox. 

Kopech literally said there was no motivation because the Sox suck so bad.  Yes, that is on Kopech, but it’s also on Jerry, Hahn/Kenny, and Getz for building such an absolute piece of garbage team that no one cares to play hard for.  That’s a culture the owner and front office created by being so fucking bad at their jobs.  Afterall, if the entire roster gave a crap last year, they wouldn’t have set a record for futility. 

How many years was that record again?  Oh, since 1901!  Yeah, pretty much an almost impossible record to set unless you have a roster of players that don’t respect and don’t care about their own organization.  Even a piece of s%*# team would barely have to try to avoid the record this team set.  Jerry fostered those feelings.

Meanwhile, with one trade, all of Kopech’s problems are solved and he pitches like a stud?  Yeah, it’s magic.  It has nothing to do at all with being a member of this embarrassing organization at all.

Kopech’s life was a mess according to you, yet you argued in the past that Tim Anderson’s personal life was his own business.  But Tim Anderson likely fell apart because Sox fans were mean to him about his extramarital affairs…

Just be honest, and call a spade a spade.

Edited December 7, 20241 yr by WhiteSox2023

laughing my butt off, I just saw this "news" and it's already a three page thread. not much offseason stuff to discuss thus far, I guess, so what about how the Sox signed two guys named Nick? Shout out, we needed that representation. Madrigal couldn't get the job done, didn't live up to the name, maybe PoDunk or whatshisname will live up to the excellent given name.

On Kopech, it pissed me off too and I didn't read anything except the headline. that guy sucks. like he's bad at baseball. why is that dumbass talking s%*#, he is not a good baseball player and he seems like an asshole to boot. doesn't he have an agent to tell him to shut up? I recall his dad talked a lot, maybe pops could tell sonny boy to keep his mouth shut, maybe pops could enjoy a retirement in the Caribbean or southeast Asia or wherever people go these days if sonny kept his mouth shut and threw the ball. He throws it fast and it moves in wild ways, that's still a skill even if the brain attached to the arm is 50iq. The guy just seems slow, I assumed pops was his legal guardian.

anyway, I'd probably keep my stupid mouth shut before I signed an extension. Giolito just made $20mil to recover from an injury. That guy's not so good, but he says all the right things. It obviously makes a difference. If Kopech was good, he could talk this trash maybe.

Edited December 7, 20241 yr by nrockway

1 hour ago, nrockway said:

laughing my butt off, I just saw this "news" and it's already a three page thread. not much offseason stuff to discuss thus far, I guess, so what about how the Sox signed two guys named Nick? Shout out, we needed that representation. Madrigal couldn't get the job done, didn't live up to the name, maybe PoDunk or whatshisname will live up to the excellent given name.

On Kopech, it pissed me off too and I didn't read anything except the headline. that guy sucks. like he's bad at baseball. why is that dumbass talking s%*#, he is not a good baseball player and he seems like an asshole to boot. doesn't he have an agent to tell him to shut up? I recall his dad talked a lot, maybe pops could tell sonny boy to keep his mouth shut, maybe pops could enjoy a retirement in the Caribbean or southeast Asia or wherever people go these days if sonny kept his mouth shut and threw the ball. He throws it fast and it moves in wild ways, that's still a skill even if the brain attached to the arm is 50iq. The guy just seems slow, I assumed pops was his legal guardian.

anyway, I'd probably keep my stupid mouth shut before I signed an extension. Giolito just made $20mil to recover from an injury. That guy's not so good, but he says all the right things. It obviously makes a difference. If Kopech was good, he could talk this trash maybe.

The Sox signed a couple players named Nick?  I only saw the Jeff Bolker signing.

I appreciate his honesty. I put it more on the White Sox management and ownership for allowing this culture of 'going through the motions' to infect the majority of the clubhouse. Bad, bad, bad.

12 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I'm more upset about the Sox total complete dysfunction than I am with Kopech's comments. Not to say what he said doesn't bother me, but that's more reflective of what has happened to this franchise.

Preach.

2 hours ago, Sarava said:

I appreciate his honesty. I put it more on the White Sox management and ownership for allowing this culture of 'going through the motions' to infect the majority of the clubhouse. Bad, bad, bad.

Bingo.

I also appreciate his honesty and candor. I also remember a couple of his blown saves, where he would give up a 9th inning homer.  That was not the fault of a losing culture.

A team's culture is created by both the players and their leaders. It can change quickly.

5 hours ago, Sarava said:

I appreciate his honesty. I put it more on the White Sox management and ownership for allowing this culture of 'going through the motions' to infect the majority of the clubhouse. Bad, bad, bad.

What would you have done to motivate him to play better? 

18 hours ago, Quin said:

If you're not able to actually be honest in these situations, that's not a good thing.

He should get on Dr. Phil and tell us all about it.