Dick Allen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: For some reason, in sports talk, skepticism is interpreted as smart, and enthusiasm is interpreted as dumb. People will pose as skeptical until a core of the two Montys, Smith, Schultz, Teel/Quero and others win their 2nd World Series (because the 1st will be deemed a "fluke" in skeptic parlance). As you said, Getz has overhauled or created many key departments, and processes for interaction between them. He has telegraphed a "type" of prospect he's targeting, focusing on OBP. A 60 win season will be treated as an abomination, an 81 win 2026 as underachieving, and an 86 win 2027 as a travesty of half measures. It's boring. Yeah, what an exciting time to be a White Sox fan. 222 losses in 2 seasons isn’t boring at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 54 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: Isn’t it possible for someone to be bad at directing player development but better at GM? They are two different jobs. It’s certainly possible that Getz is bad at both, but just because he failed at one position doesn’t mean he will automatically fail at the other. And I’m not directing this at you, DA. I’ve just seen several people point out his failure at player development the last few years as if it’s clear indicator of his ability as a GM. It’s possible but not probable and not many get a chance at more responsibility when they didn’t handle the smaller load. The Sox made minor league staff changes every year Getz was there. What changed for the better? Was Josh Barfield the reason the DBacks got hot and made the playoffs in 2023? Maybe he’s upgrade. Maybe he’s not. It wasn’t too long ago when the thought was everone in the Sox front office was bad at their job except Rick Hahn. I just don’t know why it makes me any less of a Sox fan to think the guy who failed up to his current job and GMd the team with the most losses ever , needs to prove he knows what he’s doing before getting excited about what he says. I wish they would telivise the q and a at Soxfest and see how he reacts yo not so friendly fire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: He changed it, but all we know is it's different. We don't know if it's right. The Bears swapped out their Ryan's and Matt's a few years ago. It hasn't meant better results. I still think Getz wasn't the right guy for the job. I know it was everyone else's fault he couldn't develop s%*#, but he should have some responsibility, or wlwehe was just a coffee boy, and even less qualified for his current position. Oh no doubt. You will never hear me argue that he was qualified for the GM role and I fully that agree he bares responsibility for past player development failures. But despite big talk, Hahn didn’t change all that much during his time with the org. At least we can see Getz trying something different, even if it’s very possible he fails. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Tony said: Of course it was extremely talented, but it speaks to my original point. 2005 everything came together perfectly, and a number of guys basically emptied their gas tanks for that season. End of the day, they won the World Series in 2005, and were third in their division in 2006. And as we know, 2005 is the only season in the last 100 years they have won a playoff series. So I’m not going to the take the advice of someone else on this board and be thankful for the wonderful ownership of Jerry Reinsdorf, or anyone that came before him. This is an embarrassingly bad franchise most of us were unfortunately born into. No one should be thankful for any Jerry Reinsdorf ownership. Even the Bulls won despite of him and not because of him. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, SoxBlanco said: Isn’t it possible for someone to be bad at directing player development but better at GM? They are two different jobs. It’s certainly possible that Getz is bad at both, but just because he failed at one position doesn’t mean he will automatically fail at the other. And I’m not directing this at you, DA. I’ve just seen several people point out his failure at player development the last few years as if it’s clear indicator of his ability as a GM. There’s nothing to suggest it will be any more successful than hiring any one of the commenters here on Soxtalk. What can we point to in his past that would suggest success at a higher level position? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, greg775 said: You are an optimistic fan. I'd venture to say most Sox fans either are upset or totally have moved on and do not care and would never ever consider going to a game unless it was some special occasion: free tickets in prime location, free parking. I don't live in Chicago but I'd assume there's general who cares malaise about our Sox. Am I correct? It's the same general malaise that results from a long losing patch, which disappears when they start winning again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, SoxBlanco said: I definitely agree with everything you said. And I’m not even a Getz supporter. I was angry that they didn’t look outside the organization for a new GM. But what I described in my previous post has always bothered me. In most jobs doesn’t failure at a lower level imply failure at a higher level? If a teacher sucks at teaching what would suggest success as principal? And why would anyone promote such a failure? Why not promote Grifol to GM if past success is irrelevant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 54 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It’s possible but not probable and not many get a chance at more responsibility when they didn’t handle the smaller load. The Sox made minor league staff changes every year Getz was there. What changed for the better? Was Josh Barfield the reason the DBacks got hot and made the playoffs in 2023? Maybe he’s upgrade. Maybe he’s not. It wasn’t too long ago when the thought was everone in the Sox front office was bad at their job except Rick Hahn. I just don’t know why it makes me any less of a Sox fan to think the guy who failed up to his current job and GMd the team with the most losses ever , needs to prove he knows what he’s doing before getting excited about what he says. I wish they would telivise the q and a at Soxfest and see how he reacts yo not so friendly fire. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 54 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It’s possible but not probable and not many get a chance at more responsibility when they didn’t handle the smaller load. The Sox made minor league staff changes every year Getz was there. What changed for the better? Was Josh Barfield the reason the DBacks got hot and made the playoffs in 2023? Maybe he’s upgrade. Maybe he’s not. It wasn’t too long ago when the thought was everone in the Sox front office was bad at their job except Rick Hahn. I just don’t know why it makes me any less of a Sox fan to think the guy who failed up to his current job and GMd the team with the most losses ever , needs to prove he knows what he’s doing before getting excited about what he says. I wish they would telivise the q and a at Soxfest and see how he reacts yo not so friendly fire. Why? Unless Getz winds up in the hospital, everybody will call it "softball questions". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 12 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said: There’s nothing to suggest it will be any more successful than hiring any one of the commenters here on Soxtalk. What can we point to in his past that would suggest success at a higher level position? Which is why I think all of the negative people should post their resumes for GM here. Then the rest of us could post video of us urinating ourselves laughing at "I played HS ball, and have a fantasy team. My secret for success would be 'sign all the best players', and win a lot!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Which is why I think all of the negative people should post their resumes for GM here. Then the rest of us could post video of us urinating ourselves laughing at "I played HS ball, and have a fantasy team. My secret for success would be 'sign all the best players', and win a lot!" Sign the best players has never been a JR strategy since twenty years ago...at least in free agency. Dunn Hendriks and arguably Robertson the only three close to elite for their positions. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Which is why I think all of the negative people should post their resumes for GM here. Then the rest of us could post video of us urinating ourselves laughing at "I played HS ball, and have a fantasy team. My secret for success would be 'sign all the best players', and win a lot!" Why would fans post their resumes here? It's not like the White Sox did a search. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, FloydBannister1983 said: In most jobs doesn’t failure at a lower level imply failure at a higher level? If a teacher sucks at teaching what would suggest success as principal? And why would anyone promote such a failure? Why not promote Grifol to GM if past success is irrelevant? It’s funny you bring up this example because I almost used it in my original post. I’m a teacher, and I’ve seen multiple examples of people who are shitty teachers and good department chairs. I do agree that a promotion shouldn’t happen if you’re bad at your job, but I see it all the time in education, too. Ten years ago, our principal was horrendous and they kicked him up the ladder to our district office. And just so it’s clear what my stance is, I don’t agree with promoting people who are bad at their job. I didn’t agree with the Getz hire. We had a chance to start fresh and hire outside of the organization, and we blew it. But I won’t go as far as saying Getz is a bad GM. That’s still an unknown, in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Which is why I think all of the negative people should post their resumes for GM here. Then the rest of us could post video of us urinating ourselves laughing at "I played HS ball, and have a fantasy team. My secret for success would be 'sign all the best players', and win a lot!" It’s not about your or my resume’. We are fans, our opinion is merely that. Our arguments aren’t over qualifications, they are over assessments and predictions. I’m just not hopeful right now, and you are. That’s ok, I don’t begrudge you that at all, I just think right now we are all at such a malaise and impasse that we are just saying the same s%*# over and over to each other. Believe me, I want to be wrong about Getz and I hope he proves me wrong. Demanding a resume on a message board just doesn’t really make sense 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: It’s not about your or my resume’. We are fans, our opinion is merely that. Our arguments aren’t over qualifications, they are over assessments and predictions. I’m just not hopeful right now, and you are. That’s ok, I don’t begrudge you that at all, I just think right now we are all at such a malaise and impasse that we are just saying the same s%*# over and over to each other. Believe me, I want to be wrong about Getz and I hope he proves me wrong. Demanding a resume on a message board just doesn’t really make sense Otherwise, you have a 10-12 person message board of those who have ever worked in or around professional sports or reporting on it. They're fortunate at this point to have fans who care enough about the direction of the franchise to spend their time discussing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 36 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: It’s funny you bring up this example because I almost used it in my original post. I’m a teacher, and I’ve seen multiple examples of people who are shitty teachers and good department chairs. I do agree that a promotion shouldn’t happen if you’re bad at your job, but I see it all the time in education, too. Ten years ago, our principal was horrendous and they kicked him up the ladder to our district office. And just so it’s clear what my stance is, I don’t agree with promoting people who are bad at their job. I didn’t agree with the Getz hire. We had a chance to start fresh and hire outside of the organization, and we blew it. But I won’t go as far as saying Getz is a bad GM. That’s still an unknown, in my opinion. And my stance is that we don't even really know that Getz was a "bad" GM. There were so many layers of failure before and after his part of the process that most of this discussion rests on people who were just mad Getz got hired in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 36 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: It’s not about your or my resume’. We are fans, our opinion is merely that. Our arguments aren’t over qualifications, they are over assessments and predictions. I’m just not hopeful right now, and you are. That’s ok, I don’t begrudge you that at all, I just think right now we are all at such a malaise and impasse that we are just saying the same s%*# over and over to each other. Believe me, I want to be wrong about Getz and I hope he proves me wrong. Demanding a resume on a message board just doesn’t really make sense Nor does wanting "fans" to do a Q&A with Getz. Any question not punctuated with expletives and accusations of incompetence will be viewed as "softball". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 51 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said: Why would fans post their resumes here? It's not like the White Sox did a search. Awesome, haha. Jerry hand-picked one guy. No one else had a shot. Resumes were not necessary or reviewed. Edited January 12 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Very little MLB talent to trade, a bad farm system (arguably Getz’s own doing), and new asinine draft lottery rules…trying to rebuild that is going to be a long difficult road for anyone. Reality is that if at least 2 legit free agent hitters aren’t signed at some point and the payroll doesn’t get back up to $160+M I don’t see how Getz could possibly dig out of this hole in less than 5 years. And I’m not even trying to defend Getz. I never thought he should have gotten the job to begin with. Just important to acknowledge how dire the situation really is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: And my stance is that we don't even really know that Getz was a "bad" GM. There were so many layers of failure before and after his part of the process that most of this discussion rests on people who were just mad Getz got hired in the first place. But what we do know is that Getz himself made numerous moves that were confusing at the time and blew up in the 2024 record. The Maldonado signing that looked firable on its own, bringing in all of his other precious veterans that were supposed to at least improve the defense, the moves that were supposed to improve the bullpen, the weak return for Cease, and during the season the weak return for Fedde. On top of that, keeping Grifol, whoever they brought in for coaching hitting, the numerous personal and attitude issues. While there were a handful of decent moves, notably signing Fedde, had a GM taken over a strong team with a real owner and wound up with a performance record like his in the first year, there's a good chance he gets fired after year 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: But what we do know is that Getz himself made numerous moves that were confusing at the time and blew up in the 2024 record. The Maldonado signing that looked firable on its own, bringing in all of his other precious veterans that were supposed to at least improve the defense, the moves that were supposed to improve the bullpen, the weak return for Cease, and during the season the weak return for Fedde. On top of that, keeping Grifol, whoever they brought in for coaching hitting, the numerous personal and attitude issues. While there were a handful of decent moves, notably signing Fedde, had a GM taken over a strong team with a real owner and wound up with a performance record like his in the first year, there's a good chance he gets fired after year 2. There wasn't even any need to trade Burger, not that we'll ever know Getz's official position on this (between a dueling Hahn and KW). He would be much cheaper and likelier more effective at 1B than Andrew Vaughn for a rebuilding team. And you need SOMEONE who can actually drive the ball deep as a threat in the line-up behind Luis Robert (to prop him up for a trade). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 32 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: There wasn't even any need to trade Burger, not that we'll ever know Getz's official position on this (between a dueling Hahn and KW). He would be much cheaper and likelier more effective at 1B than Andrew Vaughn for a rebuilding team. And you need SOMEONE who can actually drive the ball deep as a threat in the line-up behind Luis Robert (to prop him up for a trade). This has absolutely literally nothing to do with Getz’s year 1 decisions and I encourage you to delete this post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: There wasn't even any need to trade Burger, not that we'll ever know Getz's official position on this (between a dueling Hahn and KW). He would be much cheaper and likelier more effective at 1B than Andrew Vaughn for a rebuilding team. And you need SOMEONE who can actually drive the ball deep as a threat in the line-up behind Luis Robert (to prop him up for a trade). Ryan McGuffey already stated in his podcast that Kenny Williams alone traded Burger to the Marlins. As ludicrous as this is, Kenny had the sole power and decision making to execute trades with two teams over Rick Hahn — the Yankees and Marlins. The trade had nothing to do with even Hahn, much less Chris Getz. Edited January 13 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 57 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: This has absolutely literally nothing to do with Getz’s year 1 decisions and I encourage you to delete this post. It's one of the main reasons why he's the GM today, the disharmony involving trading Anderson and Burger at the same time by two club executives...at some point, we might even learn who Getz sided with during this standoff. It could be that he argued against BOTH trades. I would be interested to know what he thought about that move, personally. That was really the beginning of his tenure as GM, it's just that nobody knew it quite yet at the time. ‘‘He’s not far off,’’ Sox general manager Chris Getz said. But there also are cautionary signs, which is why a stint at a pitcher/catcher camp in September at the Sox’ spring-training facility and a current assignment for Glendale in the AFL serve as an apprenticeship for an eventual major-league promotion. In the same game against Peoria, Eder lacked command, threw only 29 of 55 pitches for strikes and was pulled after issuing his fourth walk to start the third, even though he hadn’t allowed any hits. A lack of concentration enabled Jakob Marsee to steal third base with ease, five pitches after Marsee had stolen second despite Eder paying closer attention to him while on first. ‘‘I’m not concerned,’’ Getz, who took over as the Sox’ top baseball decision-maker one month after Eder was acquired, said of some of the flaws. In addition to participating in the pitcher/catcher camp, Eder was sent to the Sox’ non-ballyhooed pitch lab to have his delivery scrutinized and to identify mechanical flaws that could be corrected and allow him to throw his mid-90s fastball with more consistency. ‘‘I’ve been here for a couple of months now and got a good relationship with all the pitching coaches and coordinators,’’ the 6-4, 215-pound Eder said. ‘‘So it’s been productive.’’ The strikeout of Manzardo was reminiscent of what Eder did after being selected as a fourth-round pick of the Marlins in the pandemic-shortened 2000 draft out of Vanderbilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 (edited) 7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Ryan McGuffey already stated in his podcast that Kenny Williams traded Burger to the Marlins. As ludicrous as this is, Kenny had the sole power and decision making to execute trades with two teams — the Yankees and Marlins. The trade had nothing to do with even Rick Hahn, much less Chris Getz. But it has never been explained...why those two specific teams...Hahn and Kim Ng never got along? Because KW spent a lot of time in Miami? And why was the simultaneous Anderson trade by Hahn denied/voided? Edited January 13 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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