I am conflicted as I try to evaluate Colson Montgomery. On one hand, we know he handled SS defensively in ST and had one hit, a HR.  Maybe he was slowed up because of his back . On the other, maybe he is what we thought he was, an oversized SS who did not prove to management that he can stick at that position. Compare how Teel's ST went albeit at a different position.  He impressed management that he can handle his position at a major league level and that he has a good eye with some LH hitting power.  Should be easy decisions in both cases.

MLB is a game but beyond that it is a tough business that is not always fair to players. You have to bring it on the field when you have a shot.  Think Eminem - Lose Yourself.

59 minutes ago, tray said:

I am conflicted as I try to evaluate Colson Montgomery. On one hand, we know he handled SS defensively in ST and had one hit, a HR.  Maybe he was slowed up because of his back . On the other, maybe he is what we thought he was, an oversized SS who did not prove to management that he can stick at that position. Compare how Teel's ST went albeit at a different position.  He impressed management that he can handle his position at a major league level and that he has a good eye with some LH hitting power.  Should be easy decisions in both cases.

MLB is a game but beyond that it is a tough business that is not always fair to players. You have to bring it on the field when you have a shot.  Think Eminem - Lose Yourself.

We just have to hope his back issues don’t screw over his career faster than they did to Crede.  Crede at least played until 31 but his career was still cut short.  I just hope he can stay healthy enough to play somewhere, even if that’s 3B instead of SS.

5 hours ago, tray said:

 

I'm not sure the strategy accomplishes much in the long run.  If a player performs at a high level after a few seasons, sign them to an extended contract at market value, or not. Why cheat a year out of their careers? It seems pimpy.

When an owner refuses to wade into the deep end of the free agent market, it becomes necesary to get an extra cheap year from your players so that you can sustain success as a team longer.  Granted, there aren't any real good examples of this lately under Jerry mostly because success hasn't really been around to sustain, but it works in concept.

Sox mgr Will Venable confirmed today that the top four pitchers of the rotation will be Perez, Cannon , Martin and Burke.He did not say what order they would be slotted. He also said he may have multiple pitchers in the 9th inning role.Mike Clevinger near the top of the list.

— Bruce Levine (@MLBBruceLevine) March 14, 2025

19 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Boooooooo that last sentence

Edited March 14, 20251 yr by Bob Sacamano

If Shane Smith is not in the starting rotation, my opinion of Venable is going to plummet. 

Really, right now, I have no opinion of him good or bad, but not going with Smith is a good way to start it off really poorly. 

39 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Boooooooo that last sentence

27 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

If Shane Smith is not in the starting rotation, my opinion of Venable is going to plummet. 

Really, right now, I have no opinion of him good or bad, but not going with Smith is a good way to start it off really poorly. 

Probably just politics at this point based on stuff they said to Bryse Wilson during the courting process

34 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

If Shane Smith is not in the starting rotation, my opinion of Venable is going to plummet. 

Really, right now, I have no opinion of him good or bad, but not going with Smith is a good way to start it off really poorly. 

As a rule 5 pick the most important thing is to keep Smith healthy and on the roster all season and if that means starting him in the bullpen and moving him to the rotation later in the season to limit his innings then that is exactly what they should do.

I think completion for pitching slots is down to 13 of these 16 guys:

Martin, Cannon, Perez, Burke, S.Smith, B. Wilson, Clevinger, Murfee, Booser, Eisert, Ellard, Gilbert, Leasure, Varland, Dunn, S. Wilson.

Anybody else have a shot?

On 3/14/2025 at 9:30 AM, southsider2k5 said:

When an owner refuses to wade into the deep end of the free agent market, it becomes necesary to get an extra cheap year from your players so that you can sustain success as a team longer.  Granted, there aren't any real good examples of this lately under Jerry mostly because success hasn't really been around to sustain, but it works in concept.

Abusing the service time rules may appear to an owner or GM to make sense, but it just doesn't. I recall Kris Bryant madder than he11 when they kept him down. It really is unfair to players and I would add, to fans who want to see the best players on the field for every game.

16 minutes ago, tray said:

Abusing the service time rules may appear to an owner or GM to make sense, but it just doesn't. I recall Kris Bryant madder than he11 when they kept him down. It really is unfair to players and I would add, to fans who want to see the best players on the field for every game.

He was the top prospect in all of baseball...just like Bryce Harper when he came up.

 

With Meidroth, at mid summer last year even those in his own organization felt he was still multiple years away.

“He walks more than he strikes out, which is incredible for Triple-A,” Red Sox Director of Player Development Brian Abraham said. “A focus of his is really impacting the baseball to the pull-side. He’s probably a little bit on the smaller side, but again, adding strength and adding good weight will help his bat speed.”

Meidroth has only played 199 minor league games. He is not a finished product, and it will be years before he is. But, his development and early success are encouraging signs for a Red Sox organization in the early stages of building their next young core at the major league level.

https://www.milb.com/worcester/news/chase-meidroth-ascension-through-the-minor-leagues&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj6l5rWrI2MAxU_LkQIHTCcFxIQFnoECAYQAg&usg=AOvVaw1KKXibDueCqgCuWAvZtNqS

 

"Meidroth comes with just one tool that grades as average or better. He has fringy speed and arm strength, and he's not adventurous on the bases or especially in the range. He may open the season as Chicago's shortstop despite below-average range there, and he fits best at second base because his arm is stretched at third base."

2025

Scouting grades: Hit: 60 | Power: 35 | Run: 45 | Arm: 45 | Field: 45 | Overall: 45

His power even decreased from a 40 grade to 35 last season...which is NOT good. 

"With fringy speed and arm strength, Meidroth doesn't offer much value on the bases or in the field. He's best suited for second base but primarily played third in Double-A and shortstop in Triple-A because of team needs. He can get job the done at second but lacks the arm for the hot corner and has below-average range at short."

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/chase-meidroth-805367?stats=career-r-hitting-milb

Edited March 16, 20251 yr by caulfield12

2 hours ago, tray said:

Abusing the service time rules may appear to an owner or GM to make sense, but it just doesn't. I recall Kris Bryant madder than he11 when they kept him down. It really is unfair to players and I would add, to fans who want to see the best players on the field for every game.

How did that second contract work out? Maybe his obsession with the second contract was a clue as to his motivaton. Once he got paid he's never played even half a season. Turns out to work better for the Cubs. Unfortunately.

On 3/15/2025 at 6:09 AM, Timmy U said:

I think completion for pitching slots is down to 13 of these 16 guys:

Martin, Cannon, Perez, Burke, S.Smith, B. Wilson, Clevinger, Murfee, Booser, Eisert, Ellard, Gilbert, Leasure, Varland, Dunn, S. Wilson.

Anybody else have a shot?

Erases Gilbert...

20 minutes ago, ptatc said:

How did that second contract work out? Maybe his obsession with the second contract was a clue as to his motivaton. Once he got paid he's never played even half a season. Turns out to work better for the Cubs. Unfortunately.

And on the flip side, look at locking up your young talent to long-term deals early, assuming they will be productive.  Not as bad as a Kris Bryant deal but still bad money.

Moncada and Eloy = FAIL

Robert = Depends on what they get for him.

Regardless, I would still take advantage of starting a prospect in AAA to start the season.  A team like the Sox with a cheapskate owner can’t afford to lose the extra year of control.  Until JR goes bye bye, it’s a strategy that should be employed.  I wouldn’t have Meidroth or Colson on the opening day roster.

Edited March 16, 20251 yr by WhiteSox2023

17 minutes ago, ptatc said:

How did that second contract work out? Maybe his obsession with the second contract was a clue as to his motivaton. Once he got paid he's never played even half a season. Turns out to work better for the Cubs. Unfortunately.

Hard to generalize.

Harper has been worth every penny to Phillies.

And back issues are pretty challenging to predict.  But both Bryant and Baez have been pretty pitiful.

3 hours ago, tray said:

Abusing the service time rules may appear to an owner or GM to make sense, but it just doesn't. I recall Kris Bryant madder than he11 when they kept him down. It really is unfair to players and I would add, to fans who want to see the best players on the field for every game.

And how did that go for Bryant? He still went on to hit and produce

4 hours ago, tray said:

Abusing the service time rules may appear to an owner or GM to make sense, but it just doesn't. I recall Kris Bryant madder than he11 when they kept him down. It really is unfair to players and I would add, to fans who want to see the best players on the field for every game.

If fans want to see the best players,  6 years and 140 games is more than 6 years 

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

If fans want to see the best players,  6 years and 140 games is more than 6 years 

The bigger issue is dumping Arenado's salary for what direction with the Rockies?  He was clearly tgeur best player.

They're about as bad as the Bulls.  Long suffering fans who still come out in pretty impressive numbers.  For what?  They're far and away the worst team of five in an unwinnable division.

5 hours ago, tray said:

Abusing the service time rules may appear to an owner or GM to make sense, but it just doesn't. I recall Kris Bryant madder than he11 when they kept him down. It really is unfair to players and I would add, to fans who want to see the best players on the field for every game.

It is what it is.  As long as Jerry is the White Sox owner, you gotta milk that extra year.

Edited March 16, 20251 yr by WhiteSox2023

I agree with service time manipulation from the owners' point of view but not from the players' point of view.  And really, if a team doesn't know whether they want to sign a player to a contract after he has played for them for several years, worn the jersey, established a fan base in town, is the expiration of extended team control  his reward for that ?  Frankly, the extra year of team control for essentially nothing seems like it could be unlawful if not unethical. This nonsense could be disposed of with a new CBA but you know the owners likely won't agree to that.

2 hours ago, tray said:

I agree with service time manipulation from the owners' point of view but not from the players' point of view.  And really, if a team doesn't know whether they want to sign a player to a contract after he has played for them for several years, worn the jersey, established a fan base in town, is the expiration of extended team control  his reward for that ?  Frankly, the extra year of team control for essentially nothing seems like it could be unlawful if not unethical. This nonsense could be disposed of with a new CBA but you know the owners likely won't agree to that.

It has been the only way for teams like the Pirates and Rays to survive...usually trading the majority of their secondary players right as they become more expensive in arbitration.

Even the Pirates have started extended guys like Hayes Reynolds and they will attempt to go the same with Cruz Skenes and 2 more of their core young starting pitchers.

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

It has been the only way for teams like the Pirates and Rays to survive...usually trading the majority of their secondary players right as they become more expensive in arbitration.

Even the Pirates have started extended guys like Hayes Reynolds and they will attempt to go the same with Cruz Skenes and 2 more of their core young starting pitchers.

 Eliminating the service time manipulation would simply shift the timetable for the strategy they use, not eliminate it.

22 minutes ago, tray said:

 Eliminating the service time manipulation would simply shift the timetable for the strategy they use, not eliminate it.

What would the players be willing to give up though in return?

How to prove/enforce these policies to protect players...who defines what merits a promotion? On LAD almost every young pitching prospect is blocked...vs. White Sox where rotation competition is totally wide open.  Even then, unlikely to see Schultz and Hagen Smith this yeat

(Remember, even Bryant/Boras lost their case back then.  Deck stacked against them in favor of owners/Commissioner's Office.)

The players will never agree to a cap...owners probably won't even agree to a floor although that's essentially what exists for Competitive Balance teams like Oakland...where they have to raise payroll to $105 million to continue qualifying for themph CB exemption due to larger/but dying Oakland sports market.

Edited March 16, 20251 yr by caulfield12

Playing Rojas at his far and away second best position (2B) makes no sense.

Playing Meidroth at his second or third best position (SS compared to 2B/3B) once again makes no sense.

If you can't score any runs at least prevent some defensively.

Finally, that alignment pushes either Vargas or Sosa to third...leaving all three positions weaker defensive line than the ideal positioning based on existing skills and potential liabilities.

Edited March 16, 20251 yr by caulfield12