southsider2k5 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: A lottery ticket is any prospect ranked outside of the top 200 aggregated, or any prospect that does not appear in MLB centered rankings (meaning League wide, not team centered). If you can't get top 100 guys, they should be acquiring as many of those as they possibly can with skills/abilities that they feel they can maximize. There's a LOT of noise with that group. There's much less noise with players who have shown you who they are. More specifically in my case, it is dudes who are unknown commodities now, but could explode on to the scene in the near future, with the connotation of being super young and low level players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 9 minutes ago, fathom said: They’re not getting Mauricio. As for Acuna, he’s another infielder with no power. Yeah, I don't really want Acuna. But hey, maybe we can try the friend and family plan again! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: A lottery ticket is any prospect ranked outside of the top 200 aggregated, or any prospect that does not appear in MLB centered rankings (meaning League wide, not team centered). If you can't get top 100 guys, they should be acquiring as many of those as they possibly can with skills/abilities that they feel they can maximize. There's a LOT of noise with that group. There's much less noise with players who have shown you who they are. Every player who hits the bigs, then slumps when the league adjusts to them hasn't "shown you who they are" any more than when they had their initial success. All these guys need development, either as A-ballers, or even 2nd year big leaguers. If nobody's offering their top 200 guys, then there's value to be found with guys your development team thinks they can fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: More specifically in my case, it is dudes who are unknown commodities now, but could explode on to the scene in the near future, with the connotation of being super young and low level players. Age being younger than 23 is also a weighted benefit for the above (not a hard requirement, but an age scale that's hard to overcome). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 19 minutes ago, fathom said: I get you can’t force a specific type of return, but I have no idea what Getz’s plan is for the OF. At some point we got to find a way to add some young OFs. I am not concerned about the infield if I’m being sincere…lots of options even if Meidroth, Colson, etc, don’t end up being core guys. The OF is a wasteland outside of Braden (cross fingers) right now. Just frustrating here because the Mets have several OF prospects at tier that should be around these same guys mentioned above. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I get you can’t force a specific type of return, but I have no idea what Getz’s plan is for the OF. At some point we got to find a way to add some young OFs. I am not concerned about the infield if I’m being sincere…lots of options even if Meidroth, Colson, etc, don’t end up being core guys. The OF is a wasteland outside of Braden (cross fingers) right now. Just frustrating here because the Mets have several OF prospects at tier that should be around these same guys mentioned above. Yeah s%*#, Clifford is their 7th ranked prospect and Gilbert 12th. Try to build a package off one of those guys and a lesser piece or two. Who knows if Clifford will even stick in the OF though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 17 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: How is Mauricio's defense at SS? Or even Luisangel Acuna's? Niether of them are SS. Acuna is a 2B whose bat lends itself more to a Utility role. Mauricio is pretty solid at 3B so far, but he's the youngest and best of the names listed, and there's no way in hell the Mets are trading him straight up for Robert. The reason why Vientos and Baty keep coming up is because NYM has a logjam with those guys and need to part with someone to give the others ample playing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 9 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Every player who hits the bigs, then slumps when the league adjusts to them hasn't "shown you who they are" any more than when they had their initial success. All these guys need development, either as A-ballers, or even 2nd year big leaguers. If nobody's offering their top 200 guys, then there's value to be found with guys your development team thinks they can fix. You're speaking in narratives. Players don't typically slump for years, those are usually just bad players. Development and value is linear in the first few years for players, meaning that you actually expect the players that belong to get better YoY, not worse. It doesn't mean bounce backs never happen, but you'd prefer more rounded players who add value in multiple ways as their bounce backs aren't reliant on a single skill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 41 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I don’t think Vientos is a “bad return” per se if you believe he’s just having a bad season and there is a good chance he mostly returns to form. I just worry that 2024 was an outlier for him and that he ends up being a below average 1B. In a vacuum, Vientos isn't a bad return. It isn't an overly inspring return, but Robert has fallen so far that we have to temper our exceptions on what we get back. The issue is Vientos' fit on the Sox, and Getz targeting a guy already in the bigs who may not be around by the time they are legitimately on the upswing. If Vargas weren't around, Vientos would make more sense, but both is too redundant IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: You're speaking in narratives. Players don't typically slump for years, those are usually just bad players. Development and value is linear in the first few years for players, meaning that you actually expect the players that belong to get better YoY, not worse. It doesn't mean bounce backs never happen, but you'd prefer more rounded players who add value in multiple ways as their bounce backs aren't reliant on a single skill. But if those well-rounded players aren't being offered, then there is value in guys who have had prior success and need to readjust to the league. This isn't that hard to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 9 minutes ago, WestEddy said: But if those well-rounded players aren't being offered, then there is value in guys who have had prior success and need to readjust to the league. This isn't that hard to understand. The White Sox being insistent on Vientos, as reported, somehow means he's the only kind of player available to you. Under the way you are portraying this, the White Sox can never do any better on any trades because these were the only players available.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 58 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Funny thing is Vientos isnt duplicating that either. Vientos has a xwOBA in the 15th percentile -- significantly worse than Robert. The only thing worse than his 12th percentile offensive run value added is his 8th percentile fielding grade. Vientos is slow, with a horrible defensive profile, a slow bat and horrible zone control numbers. Isn’t it at least possible that Ryan Fuller and David Keller believe that something can be unlocked with Vientos? He’s 25 with 4 more years of control. 19 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Yeah s%*#, Clifford is their 7th ranked prospect and Gilbert 12th. Try to build a package off one of those guys and a lesser piece or two. Who knows if Clifford will even stick in the OF though. I heard from a White Sox beat writer today that the prospect returns offered for Robert are pretty underwhelming. Could explain why they’re rumored to be on post-hype big league types 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I heard from a White Sox beat writer today that the prospect returns offered for Robert are pretty underwhelming. Could explain why they’re rumored to be on post-hype big league types The Sox could be completely stupid I guess, but I assume that if a package of prospects equivalent to or better than Vientos was offered, Robert would be gone by now. Edited July 28 by almagest 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 31 minutes ago, fathom said: Baty would be the best of this list, however as the article notes it may not be as realistic. I still would prefer Gilbert. He checks alot of boxes. LH, good OBP and plate discipline, appears to have a decent shot to stick in CF with above avg speed and very recently has turned it on at the plate in AAA, so he could step in and we could evaluate him in CF for awhile. As @Chicago White Sox mentioned, I'm not sure why we are looking at these infielders when we don't have anything in the OF right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I get you can’t force a specific type of return, but I have no idea what Getz’s plan is for the OF. At some point we got to find a way to add some young OFs. I am not concerned about the infield if I’m being sincere…lots of options even if Meidroth, Colson, etc, don’t end up being core guys. The OF is a wasteland outside of Braden (cross fingers) right now. Just frustrating here because the Mets have several OF prospects at tier that should be around these same guys mentioned above. They need bats any way they can find them, I'm very cool with them having a bunch of bats in the infield and using some of them to acquire a big bat down the road, we've complained so much about lack of depth, load up on it wherever you can and use that to get pieces 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 13 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I heard from a White Sox beat writer today that the prospect returns offered for Robert are pretty underwhelming. Could explain why they’re rumored to be on post-hype big league types Duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 10 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: Baty would be the best of this list, however as the article notes it may not be as realistic. I still would prefer Gilbert. He checks alot of boxes. LH, good OBP and plate discipline, appears to have a decent shot to stick in CF with above avg speed and very recently has turned it on at the plate in AAA, so he could step in and we could evaluate him in CF for awhile. As @Chicago White Sox mentioned, I'm not sure why we are looking at these infielders when we don't have anything in the OF right now. I will even go as far as to say I would rather them get back pitching, vs a dude with 4 years of control as a primary piece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I will even go as far as to say I would rather them get back pitching, vs a dude with 4 years of control as a primary piece. Same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 Funny we’ve come full circle with a possible return of Acuna and Baty. I recall having that discussion 7 months ago. Highly doubt they’d be able to get both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 Reading some of the replys to that last article about the Mets this deadline is going to cause some of you immense pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I will even go as far as to say I would rather them get back pitching, vs a dude with 4 years of control as a primary piece. Yup. And let's not pretend the minors don't need pitching. Schultz and Hagen aren't slam dunks. Get the best pieces you can get regardless of position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 9 minutes ago, DirtySox said: Yup. And let's not pretend the minors don't need pitching. Schultz and Hagen aren't slam dunks. Get the best pieces you can get regardless of position. Honestly, this franchise is so far away, who cares if the rosters aren't balanced. BPA, regardless of position. Sure if you can get OFs of similar value, do that first, but if not, take SPs, we need them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 21 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The White Sox being insistent on Vientos, as reported, somehow means he's the only kind of player available to you. Under the way you are portraying this, the White Sox can never do any better on any trades because these were the only players available.... I have no idea who's available. Neither do you. Most of us learn before our 30's that trade rumors are planted for reasons. Obviously, if Chris Getz is being offered Crochet packages for Robert, he should take the best one and run. If he's being offered garbage, perhaps there are creative ways to get more value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I will even go as far as to say I would rather them get back pitching, vs a dude with 4 years of control as a primary piece. I just looked at Mauricio's stats and he is doing quite well so like Baty it's not happening. Dammit. I will say that as between a decent but flawed LH bat prospect like Gilbert or Clifford, or pitching, I'll take the bat. I think pitching wise we are OK even with down years by Schultz and Hagen. They'll come around and they'll be in the rotation at some point next year. We just really need some more bats, particularly LH bats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 26 minutes ago, Baron said: Reading some of the replys to that last article about the Mets this deadline is going to cause some of you immense pain. The past two years have been pain with fleeting relief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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