Free Tim Elko (Back in Jail)

[Chicago White Sox]

Vaughn apparently is both dumb and lazy as he also doesn’t believe in using analytics to help change his swing & approach.  I think I actually dislike him more than the other big busts from the prior rebuild like Yoan & Eloy.

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Vaughn apparently is both dumb and lazy as he also doesn’t believe in using analytics to help change his swing & approach.  I think I actually dislike him more than the other big busts from the prior rebuild like Yoan & Eloy.

Weird how there was no whisper campaign against Vaughn,  right?

[PaleAleSox]

23 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Weird how there was no whisper campaign against Vaughn,  right?

While I agree, I think he benefited from playing out of position for two years. People thought he just needed to get to 1b. 

[kitekrazy]

They will promote Elko when he in one an 0-19 skid just to prove Vaughn is a better choice.

[Texsox]

5 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

How incredibly myopic.

The news has been all negative for the past couple years. It's far easier for me to believe something negative than anything positive. 

[Texsox]

8 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Cute, but no. 

Perfect example is the Bryce Harper story from the other day.  That story was anonymous sourced with no effort made at confirmation.   Anyone with any sense should question that.  This is directly from a primary source who observed these actions himself. 

In a day and age where people pick and choose what they believe based on whether they agree with it or not, it is much better to understand how to trace to source material to decide how much credence to put into something instead of do I like it or not.  

Definitely better than attacking the messenger because the message hurt your feelings. 

It's been so long since we've had any positive news. I'll fact check a positive story faster than I will a negative. What percentage of the verified news regarding the team has been positive in the past three years? I'm saying 10% or less? 

[southsider2k5]

37 minutes ago, Texsox said:

It's been so long since we've had any positive news. I'll fact check a positive story faster than I will a negative. What percentage of the verified news regarding the team has been positive in the past three years? I'm saying 10% or less? 

There have been all kinds of positive stories fed to Sox reporters. 

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

The news has been all negative for the past couple years. It's far easier for me to believe something negative than anything positive. 

Sure, it’s easier to believe negative things about the org is after the perpetual shitshow of the past few years. But it’s not the same as applying a broad generalization to the whole fanbase that only applies to a specific subset as you did. 

[Sambuca]

22 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Osik doubled down on his comments about Vaughn…

What were the original comments he made? Looks like he deleted them.

[GreenSox]

The Montgomery situation has been troubling for a while...Az didn't change that.  But he's young, and they can take their time.   He was our top position prospect, but he's no longer the only good position prospect we have.  Of course most of the others were signed/drafted by other teams, so it sure would be nice if we would up our drafting game.

Vaughn weariness is half the situation; he's only under control through 2026, so if he suddenly turns it on after a release, it's not like losing him would be a calamity anyway.  Soon, there just will be no room for Vaughn, so they'll have to push him out in the next couple of months.
I doubt Elko will succeed; but that's only because I think the Sox doubt that he'll succeed, and they have access to key data like bat speed.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Sambuca said:

What were the original comments he made? Looks like he deleted them.

[chitownsportsfan]

16 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

As I just said in the other thread Vaughn hasn't put any work into his body. You can be short but you can also be super strong and explosive at any size and he has the same body he came in with as a rookie. It just doesn't make any sense to keep him around as some sort of charity case from a former 3rd overall pick.

[Quin]

Cause Sox drama is required by law to be messy, I'm waiting for the twist to be that Vaughn was only out golfing when Osik was in the batting cages.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

Cause Sox drama is required by law to be messy, I'm waiting for the twist to be that Vaughn was only out golfing when Osik was in the batting cages.

The Osik story has certainly added fuel to the fire . Questioning anyone's work ethic or suggesting he's a prima donna is a serious accusation, however it wasn't needed for most of us to know we had seen enough of Vaughn by the end of last season.

It's just perplexing that his leash has been so long .His blue ribbon status as top dog  has faded but Getz is putting on a top notch Dog and Pony Show for him while Elko gets the mutt treatment. 

Bottom dwellers shouldn't be putting on airs that their nouveau riche R & D attitudes are long standing  infallible monoliths.

 

[ptatc]

20 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The Osik story has certainly added fuel to the fire . Questioning anyone's work ethic or suggesting he's a prima donna is a serious accusation, however it wasn't needed for most of us to know we had seen enough of Vaughn by the end of last season.

It's just perplexing that his leash has been so long .His blue ribbon status as top dog  has faded but Getz is putting on a top notch Dog and Pony Show for him while Elko gets the mutt treatment. 

Bottom dwellers shouldn't be putting on airs that their nouveau riche R & D attitudes are long standing  infallible monoliths.

 

I think a large payoff it is the K rate for Elko. Thames and Fuller have talked extensively about decreasing the team swuing and miss and increasing the number of players on base.

Elko is better this year but they want to see it. 

Also remember Elko is hitting at Charlotte. Meidroth was hitting HR there with  a 600 slug. His slug in chicago is 300. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

24 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I think a large payoff it is the K rate for Elko. Thames and Fuller have talked extensively about decreasing the team swuing and miss and increasing the number of players on base.

Elko is better this year but they want to see it. 

Also remember Elko is hitting at Charlotte. Meidroth was hitting HR there with  a 600 slug. His slug in chicago is 300. 

Elko's K rate is about 29 %. His walk rate is up to around 10% . He's making much better swing decisions and zoning in on more hittable pitches. His wRC+ is 182. Andrew Vaughn's wRC+ is 36.

Let's not pretend that anyone can hit at Charlotte. Their are a lot of hitters paradises in the minors. There's a lot bad hitters in the organization contributing to 41 wins last season and the 2nd lowest win total in MLB this season despite winning 3 of their last 4.

They are in no position to pretend they are the smartest people in the room when discussing Vaughn or Elko.

Besides Ryan Fuller was recently praising Elko for what a great job he's doing with the plan they gave him to get better. https://www.mlb.com/news/tim-elko-named-white-sox-minor-league-player-of-the-month

So they are seeing it and I didn't read a single word from Fuller about his K rate. I honestly have no idea what else it takes to get called up. At 26 yrs old, with a team full of castoffs , most of whom are struggling to even get close to 100 wRC+ there's no good reason not to give him a shot. Vaughn's had nearly 2400 chances and they're still making excuses for him. Why does he get so many while Elko isn't good enough to get even 1 yet ?

It's not really even about Elko if you are building a system based on rewarding excellence.

I'm sick of the double talk, two faced preferential BS and the myth of culture and accountabilty .

Coddle Colson Montgomery all you want as part of development but let's not pretend poor Vaughn is just unlucky to justify treating him like he's so important to the future of this team. He's proven he wasn't even important to the past or present teams . He needs a dose of humble pie. Give him 28 games in Charlotte and see if he can produce 182 wRC+.

 

[WhiteSox2023]

57 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Elko's K rate is about 29 %. His walk rate is up to around 10% . He's making much better swing decisions and zoning in on more hittable pitches. His wRC+ is 182. Andrew Vaughn's wRC+ is 36.

Let's not pretend that anyone can hit at Charlotte. Their are a lot of hitters paradises in the minors. There's a lot bad hitters in the organization contributing to 41 wins last season and the 2nd lowest win total in MLB this season despite winning 3 of their last 4.

They are in no position to pretend they are the smartest people in the room when discussing Vaughn or Elko.

Besides Ryan Fuller was recently praising Elko for what a great job he's doing with the plan they gave him to get better. https://www.mlb.com/news/tim-elko-named-white-sox-minor-league-player-of-the-month

So they are seeing it and I didn't read a single word from Fuller about his K rate. I honestly have no idea what else it takes to get called up. At 26 yrs old, with a team full of castoffs , most of whom are struggling to even get close to 100 wRC+ there's no good reason not to give him a shot. Vaughn's had nearly 2400 chances and they're still making excuses for him. Why does he get so many while Elko isn't good enough to get even 1 yet ?

It's not really even about Elko if you are building a system based on rewarding excellence.

I'm sick of the double talk, two faced preferential BS and the myth of culture and accountabilty .

Coddle Colson Montgomery all you want as part of development but let's not pretend poor Vaughn is just unlucky to justify treating him like he's so important to the future of this team. He's proven he wasn't even important to the past or present teams . He needs a dose of humble pie. Give him 28 games in Charlotte and see if he can produce 182 wRC+.

 

Do you think it is really just to give Vaughn more time in the majors to attempt to straighten himself out?  Or something else?

Honestly, none of it even makes sense.  Trying to reason this is just weird…

Elko should obviously be called up.  He is crushing it and he has earned it.  It’s not like he’s a 21/22 year old prospect that they may not want to start his clock yet, until other prospects are ready.  He turns 27 at the end of the year.  I can’t imagine a better time to call up an aging prospect that is performing well than right now.

Meanwhile, Vaughn is slumping horribly and apparently they could send him to AAA to work on his swing, but they won’t do it.  And even regardless of this, it’s pretty apparent that the Sox will more than likely be non-tendering him after this season anyways.  So why is Vaughn being treated like the team’s star player?

What are we all missing?  Or is this just nonsensical decision making by the Sox?

Edited May 5 by WhiteSox2023

[WhiteSox2023]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

I think a large payoff it is the K rate for Elko. Thames and Fuller have talked extensively about decreasing the team swuing and miss and increasing the number of players on base.

Elko is better this year but they want to see it. 

Also remember Elko is hitting at Charlotte. Meidroth was hitting HR there with  a 600 slug. His slug in chicago is 300. 

Elko is still a slugger.  If you are waiting for him to improve much on a 29/30% strikeout rate, you may as well leave him in Charlotte as a career minor leaguer and forget about him.  The truth is, Vaughn is a bust and can’t hit anyways and Elko isn’t getting any younger.  It should be an easy decision.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The Osik story has certainly added fuel to the fire . Questioning anyone's work ethic or suggesting he's a prima donna is a serious accusation, however it wasn't needed for most of us to know we had seen enough of Vaughn by the end of last season.

It's just perplexing that his leash has been so long .His blue ribbon status as top dog  has faded but Getz is putting on a top notch Dog and Pony Show for him while Elko gets the mutt treatment. 

Bottom dwellers shouldn't be putting on airs that their nouveau riche R & D attitudes are long standing  infallible monoliths.

 

This would all make sense as Getz was pretty much the opposite of a blue blood prospect....he should at least from a Psych 101 standpoint be identifying more with the underdog players, the David Ecksteins and Rule 5's of the world, not a #3 overall pick aka "bonus baby."

Or is it the Hahn/Getz/MICH "ivory tower" arrogance coming into play again? That he simply knows better than the common fans, Sox Twitter and the stats geek/analytics crowd?

Edited May 5 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

This would all make sense as Getz was pretty much the opposite of a blue blood prospect....he should at least from a Psych 101 standpoint be identifying more with the underdog players, the David Ecksteins and Rule 5's of the world, not a #3 overall pick aka "bonus baby."

Or is it the Hahn/Getz/MICH "ivory tower" arrogance coming into play again? That he simply knows better than the common fans, Sox Twitter and the stats geek/analytics crowd?

Palacios, Dalbec, Jankowski,Amaya, Julks,DeLoach,Fletcher, Maton, Rojas, Slater,  Tauchman,  Thaiss, Taylor,Narvaez, Colas, Workman, Jones, Lopez, Dejong, Pham, Maldonado, Mendick, Grossman, Robinson, Ramos, Shewmake, Remillard, Sheets, Senzel, Ortega,Pillar, Ellis. That's 32 AAAA or cheap veterans players that the Sox have given PA between this year and 2024.  Yet the mighty Andrew Vaughn and his  unlucky 36 wRC+ is somehow blocking our most productive minor leaguer and frankly one of the top producing MiLB players of the last 3 years to never have had 1 MLB PA.

Yet while those 32 others guys have been given a shot (not all of them a real shot) to net the Sox a MiLB player who could perform like Tim Elko, the actual Tim Elko is basically told wait for Andrew Vaughn and Tauchman, Rojas ,Lee and maybe Slater all to come back from their injuries while we also work in Sosa and Vargas at 1st base and DH or we trade them and Robert maybe then we'll give you at shot in August when we are getting outhomered badly for 4 months already . Oh wait we might get some guys in trade who could also get a shot before you too. Hell, if Teel doesn't replace Benintendi as our LFer he could play 1st, catcher and DH. Yeah you can be our weak side 1st baseman ,DH IF you have a good Spring training in 2026 or some of those guys from the Robert trade don't pass you. Don't forget about Colson he might still be fighting to be a 1st baseman by then. Aww hell you're not even in our top 30 yet, nevermind.

[caulfield12]

“Bobby Dalbec was designated for assignment, making room on the active roster for Rojas and on the 40-man for Freeman. His underlying numbers in Triple-A were encouraging, and there's seemingly more potential in his elite raw power than what Joshua Palacios' tools offer, but it's hard to know what to make of someone whose usage was akin to a 26th man.“ Fegan

 

Palacios Amaya and Vaughn all make zero sense for this team where it currently stands.

Just roll the dice and let players who really want to be there with the Sox play.

There’s obviously not nearly the talent of the 1990, 2000, 2012 and 2019 young/ish Sox teams right now, but drive desire and enthusiasm are just as big a determinants as physical ability.
 

But especially with someone like Vaughn with zero secondary carrying tools to justify a roster spot when he’s not hitting.

Edited May 5 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Elko is still a slugger.  If you are waiting for him to improve much on a 29/30% strikeout rate, you may as well leave him in Charlotte as a career minor leaguer and forget about him.  The truth is, Vaughn is a bust and can’t hit anyways and Elko isn’t getting any younger.  It should be an easy decision.

You are correct. Which is why I think they are leaving him in Charlotte. 

[oldsox]

19 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Cute, but no. 

Perfect example is the Bryce Harper story from the other day.  That story was anonymous sourced with no effort made at confirmation.   Anyone with any sense should question that.  This is directly from a primary source who observed these actions himself. 

In a day and age where people pick and choose what they believe based on whether they agree with it or not, it is much better to understand how to trace to source material to decide how much credence to put into something instead of do I like it or not.  

Definitely better than attacking the messenger because the message hurt your feelings. 

What is the Bryce Harper story?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 hours ago, ptatc said:

I think a large payoff it is the K rate for Elko. Thames and Fuller have talked extensively about decreasing the team swuing and miss and increasing the number of players on base.

Elko is better this year but they want to see it. 

Also remember Elko is hitting at Charlotte. Meidroth was hitting HR there with  a 600 slug. His slug in chicago is 300. 

Elko has a bunch of balls hit over 110 mph. Meidroth did not.

[ptatc]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Elko has a bunch of balls hit over 110 mph. Meidroth did not.

Still Charlotte. Julks and gray have ops above 900. It's a hitters paradise.