Is “The 78” Dead? Or even more alive? Fire announce plans for SSS

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, pcq said:

This org has no ability to develop a ballpark or a village other than village idiots. Maybe there will be new people to do this. 

https://ok.ru/video/2085687724571

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j5xS0Xlu3zs&pp=ygULVGhlIFZpbGxhZ2U%3D

Edited September 19 by caulfield12

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, pcq said:

This org has no ability to develop a ballpark or a village other than village idiots. Maybe there will be new people to do this. 

Nothing will happen until Ishbia takes over in the comment I was mentioning about developing the area around the park and trying to do some upgrades with the stadium. JR is a non-factor in this regard.  

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, pcq said:

This org has no ability to develop a ballpark or a village other than village idiots. Maybe there will be new people to do this. 

Nothing will happen until Ishbia takes over in the comment I was mentioning about developing the area around the park and trying to do some upgrades with the stadium. JR is a non-factor in this regard.  

[77 Hitmen]

The DC city council has approved a deal to build a new domed stadium for the Washington Commanders at the site of the old RFK stadium.  They expect the new stadium to open for the 2030 season.

https://wtop.com/dc/2025/09/the-washington-commanders-are-returning-to-dc-as-council-approves-3-7b-deal-for-stadium-at-rfk-site/

[ewokpelts]

18 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I don't disagree that it would be difficult, if not financially impractical, to fix some of the biggest structural flaws of Rate Field.  I just think it's a possible outcome that they could remain at Rate Field long-term.  I for one will be very unhappy and disappointed if that happens since IMHO it'll doom the Sox to pretty much their current, reduced market share (a small market team within a major market) and to recurring attendance issues for decades to come. 

When you say "take away the parking that most fans like", by "most fans" do you mean the 17,000 that show up for games now or the fans that say they'll only attend games if the Sox make the playoffs in multiple seasons?  I'm sorry, but the Sox have been catering to fans who want nothing more than a ballpark right off the expressway and surrounded by acres of parking lots and it's obviously not working and it goes against what just about every other MLB team has figured out over the last 30 years.  Plus, it's not like they'll eliminate all parking if they redeveloped the area around the current stadium.  They'll also have parking if they move to the 78, too.  

do you have a head injury?

2006 WS attendance with NO DAN RYAN EXPRESSWAY - 2.9 million 
2007 WS attendance with NO DAN RYAN EXPRESSWAY - 2.6 million.

Imagine that post championship bubble with a major superhighway open next to it.

The site has issues, but is not the death sentence you claim it is. The 78, however, will piss off a ton of people that drive to games.

[77 Hitmen]

5 hours ago, ewokpelts said:

do you have a head injury?
 

If you have a differing opinion and some stats to back up your view, fine.  But no need for personal insults.  I'm not going to stoop to your level..

[HoosierSox]

I would like to see them build a new modern stadium where old Comiskey was and eventually turn where the current stadium is into a ballpark village.

[77 Hitmen]

On 9/20/2025 at 4:27 PM, HoosierSox said:

I would like to see them build a new modern stadium where old Comiskey was and eventually turn where the current stadium is into a ballpark village.

That would certainly be a huge improvement over the current situation.   They've had attendance issues with the current ballpark for 30 years save for the 2 or 3 years after they won the World Series.  The numbers clearly show this.  One huge benefit of this option is that it's all ISFA land.  Of course, the Ishbias would still have to pay for a new stadium just as they would at the 78, but other sports owners are spending a lot more than JR is committing toward new stadiums, so while not a certainty it's not an out of the question.

I don't think a plan to "just win" is enough because it's so tough to do consistently.  The Mets owner threw a record amount of money into that team and how is that working out for them?  Same with the Ishbias and the Suns.  I also don't think just winning a few division titles or wild cards with early playoff exits is going to do much to move the needle for the Sox market share in Chicago at this point.  

[Lip Man 1]

24 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

That would certainly be a huge improvement over the current situation.   They've had attendance issues with the current ballpark for 30 years save for the 2 or 3 years after they won the World Series.  The numbers clearly show this.  One huge benefit of this option is that it's all ISFA land.  Of course, the Ishbias would still have to pay for a new stadium just as they would at the 78, but other sports owners are spending a lot more than JR is committing toward new stadiums, so while not a certainty it's not an out of the question.

I don't think a plan to "just win" is enough because it's so tough to do consistently.  The Mets owner threw a record amount of money into that team and how is that working out for them?  Same with the Ishbias and the Suns.  I also don't think just winning a few division titles or wild cards with early playoff exits is going to do much to move the needle for the Sox market share in Chicago at this point.  

It would be nice to see them actually accomplish that and see what would happen. In my mind that would be a terrific way to start. 

[77 Hitmen]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

It would be nice to see them actually accomplish that and see what would happen. In my mind that would be a terrific way to start. 

The Sox have the 2nd longest postseason series win drought in MLB.  Only the Reds have gone longer (1995) and they might actually make the playoffs this year.  2005 is the only season in the 44-year Jerry Reinsdorf era that the Sox actually won a post-season series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_franchise_postseason_droughts

So yeah, the new owners need to start with rebuilding the organization itself from the ground up.  Hopefully they're smart enough to realize they can (and IMO must) do more than one thing at a time to turn this franchise around and that fixing the on-field performance/organizational rot and improving the ballpark experience aren't mutually exclusive.

[Snopek]

On 9/20/2025 at 9:44 AM, ewokpelts said:

do you have a head injury?

2006 WS attendance with NO DAN RYAN EXPRESSWAY - 2.9 million 
2007 WS attendance with NO DAN RYAN EXPRESSWAY - 2.6 million.

Imagine that post championship bubble with a major superhighway open next to it.

The site has issues, but is not the death sentence you claim it is. The 78, however, will piss off a ton of people that drive to games.

I think "post championship" is doing more heavy lifting here than "no dan ryan." 

If you have to rely almost solely on the team being championship caliber to draw well, then your ballpark is just not really that attractive. 

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Snopek said:

I think "post championship" is doing more heavy lifting here than "no dan ryan." 

If you have to rely almost solely on the team being championship caliber to draw well, then your ballpark is just not really that attractive. 

Which is why having a 3rd rate ballpark in a neighborhood with a poor reputation (fair or not, it exists) is a fair topic here. 

[caulfield12]

"Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred said last week that he expects under (new owner) Zalupski the Rays will start a new search for a new ballpark site in the Tampa and St. Petersburg area. Under Sternberg, the Rays announced plans for and then failed to move ahead with proposed ballparks at the Al Lang Stadium site in St. Petersburg (2007), Ybor City in Tampa (2018) and the site adjacent to the Trop in downtown St. Petersburg (2023 )."

espn.com

[The Mighty Mite]

I think we can forget the 78, there’s no money to pay for it. I’m actually down on the 78 as I’m not sure that it’s all that great of a site, they probably would get some tourists but along as Wrigley is around, that is still the place they want to see a game at. Parking would be limited at the 78 and as many many Sox fans live in the SW burbs and they would probably be happier at the current location. 
The Rate has great public transportation and a major highway at it’s doorstep. Looking at Google Earth I’m wondering how many fans walk to games, there are many homes in the Bridgeport area, the area east of the Ryan is being reborn, are the White Sox an asset to the neighborhood or are they just another business. They need to become an asset.

What the Sox first have to do is some work at the park, the UD is a problem but you can’t tear it down so make improvements around the rest of the park where people really want to see games there, maybe changing the dimensions and adding some kind of a homer deck in right field. I would actually think of taking out some more rows in the upper deck cutting it down to maybe even only 8 rows to where it would be a cozy place to watch a game. The lost seats could be made up with the homer deck in right field. The  Angels had the blandest ballpark in MLB and they did a nice job changing their ballpark, I saw one game there back in 1975 when it was in its original form and 4 games since they remodeled it, quite a transformation. Also turn some of the parking lots and 35th street into entertainment, restaurant and tavern venues and also play up the area around the ballpark with the locals, make it truly White Sox country calling it Soxville or even Comiskeyville. 
All what I have said won’t mean a thing unless the Sox start becoming a winning team, that’s the first order of business and as long as JR is around the Sox will continue to be the laughing stock of MLB. and hemorrhage more fans, we need Ishbia ASAP.

Edited September 23 by The Mighty Mite

[77 Hitmen]

19 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which is why having a 3rd rate ballpark in a neighborhood with a poor reputation (fair or not, it exists) is a fair topic here. 

I'm hard pressed to think of another MLB team that doesn't now or has plans to play in an iconic or highly rated park and/or in a vibrant area (i.e.; popular neighborhood or entertainment district).   Maybe the Brewers with their ballpark surrounded by parking lots is the best answer.  Other than that?  Dodger and Yankee Stadium?  But those are two of the most elite franchises in MLB history and one can argue that their stadiums are considered iconic.  Am I missing anyone?  Chase Field isn't anything special IMO, but is downtown.  Miami's new stadium and its location has been a huge swing and a miss and their attendance has been terrible.  

I just think it's incredulous to think that there's nothing wrong with the current Sox ballpark status and that their attendance right when they won the World Series proves that.    

 

[ewokpelts]

On 9/19/2025 at 11:35 PM, 77 Hitmen said:

The DC city council has approved a deal to build a new domed stadium for the Washington Commanders at the site of the old RFK stadium.  They expect the new stadium to open for the 2030 season.

https://wtop.com/dc/2025/09/the-washington-commanders-are-returning-to-dc-as-council-approves-3-7b-deal-for-stadium-at-rfk-site/

seven BILLION dollar project

[77 Hitmen]

5 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I think we can forget the 78, there’s no money to pay for it. I’m actually down on the 78 as I’m not sure that it’s all that great of a site, they probably would get some tourists but along as Wrigley is around, that is still the place they want to see a game at. Parking would be limited at the 78 and as many many Sox fans live in the SW burbs and they would probably be happier at the current location. 
The Rate has great public transportation and a major highway at it’s doorstep. Looking at Google Earth I’m wondering how many fans walk to games, there are many homes in the Bridgeport area, the area east of the Ryan is being reborn, are the White Sox an asset to the neighborhood or are they just another business. They need to become an asset.

What the Sox first have to do is some work at the park, the UD is a problem but you can’t tear it down so make improvements around the rest of the park where people really want to see games there, maybe changing the dimensions and adding some kind of a homer deck in right field. I would actually think of taking out some more rows in the upper deck cutting it down to maybe even only 8 rows to where it would be a cozy place to watch a game. The lost seats could be made up with the homer deck in right field. The  Angels had the blandest ballpark in MLB and they did a nice job changing their ballpark, I saw one game there back in 1975 when it was in its original form and 4 games since they remodeled it, quite a transformation. Also turn some of the parking lots and 35th street into entertainment, restaurant and tavern venues and also play up the area around the ballpark with the locals, make it truly White Sox country calling it Soxville or even Comiskeyville. 
All what I have said won’t mean a thing unless the Sox start becoming a winning team, that’s the first order of business and as long as JR is around the Sox will continue to be the laughing stock of MLB. and hemorrhage more fans, we need Ishbia ASAP.

The Ishbia brothers are reportedly worth around $15B.  There is potentially money to pay for a new stadium if that's what they think is the best path forward.  I'm not saying that's what they'll do.  

You also bring up some valid questions about the 78 location.  None of the options are perfect.  That's why, even though I'm in favor of a ballpark at the 78, my guess now is that the most likely outcome is what you described:  ballpark improvements and developing the area around the current park.  Seems like the path of least resistance.  Lots of question marks either way.  It'll be very interesting to see what the result is when the dust settles.

...and yes, none of it will matter if they continue to play the way they have for most of the last 15 years.  The new owners have to retool this organization top to bottom IMO regardless of stadium.

Edited September 23 by 77 Hitmen

[ewokpelts]

20 hours ago, Snopek said:

I think "post championship" is doing more heavy lifting here than "no dan ryan." 

If you have to rely almost solely on the team being championship caliber to draw well, then your ballpark is just not really that attractive. 

most teams experience a sales increase after a WS win. that part is obvious.

the removal of a major superhighway also changes behavior patterns. i don't even want to imagine how much of a disaster getting to and from games in 06/07 was if you lived south and southwest of the park(I lived in the city and had the streets).

[77 Hitmen]

7 minutes ago, ewokpelts said:

seven BILLION dollar project

Lots of public money going into that project.  I'm not tied in to DC local news, but I'd imagine not everyone is happy with that. 

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I'm hard pressed to think of another MLB team that doesn't now or has plans to play in an iconic or highly rated park and/or in a vibrant area (i.e.; popular neighborhood or entertainment district).   Maybe the Brewers with their ballpark surrounded by parking lots is the best answer.  Other than that?  Dodger and Yankee Stadium?  But those are two of the most elite franchises in MLB history and one can argue that their stadiums are considered iconic.  Am I missing anyone?  Chase Field isn't anything special IMO, but is downtown.  Miami's new stadium and its location has been a huge swing and a miss and their attendance has been terrible.  

I just think it's incredulous to think that there's nothing wrong with the current Sox ballpark status and that their attendance right when they won the World Series proves that.    

 

Plus the risk/reward.  Our fan base literally only shows up after long periods of winning.  It's the very definition of a bandwagon fanbase, like it or not.  What we did for the past 35 years absolutely, unequivocally did not work.  The franchise did nothing to build a new and expanding fanbase at 35th and Shields, despite all of the plentiful parking.  We see the 2025 model out there.  This isn't like 1989 when we were literally the first franchise to build a new park in a long period of time, and couldn't have foreseen the shift.

Today we can see the model for a getting fans to show up to the park even when the team is bad.  It's right there in front of us.  This isn't the Boomer era where 3 hours of baseball is enough.  People want to make a day/evening experience out of this.  They want dinner before hand, and drinks afterwards, with some entertainment in the middle.  We see it all over baseball.  At the absolute very least, even if they go back to the historic neighborhood, they have GOT to plow over some of these lots and do more than build a single game day bar.  The answer is right in front of us.  Something has to give, or what we have seen for the past few years will become more common place.  Either you have a revenue base, or you serve as a minor league franchise for the Have's of MLB.

[greg775]

On 9/19/2025 at 9:20 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

Nothing will happen until Ishbia takes over in the comment I was mentioning about developing the area around the park and trying to do some upgrades with the stadium. JR is a non-factor in this regard.  

Was just yesterday watching tape of the mayor saying no more property taxes are coming on regular people, only the rich. Two comments: 1.) Why would any company stick around with the $$ hit coming? And 2.) No way in heck the government is gonna provide funds for a new White Sox stadium. Not in this climate with Chicago at least according to what I've heard on TV, in debt big time.

[Snopek]

43 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I'm hard pressed to think of another MLB team that doesn't now or has plans to play in an iconic or highly rated park and/or in a vibrant area (i.e.; popular neighborhood or entertainment district).   Maybe the Brewers with their ballpark surrounded by parking lots is the best answer.  Other than that?  Dodger and Yankee Stadium?  But those are two of the most elite franchises in MLB history and one can argue that their stadiums are considered iconic.  Am I missing anyone?  Chase Field isn't anything special IMO, but is downtown.  Miami's new stadium and its location has been a huge swing and a miss and their attendance has been terrible.  

I just think it's incredulous to think that there's nothing wrong with the current Sox ballpark status and that their attendance right when they won the World Series proves that.    

 

The two that come to mind are the Angels (consistently ranked as a bottom 5 or so ballpark) and Royals (already planning a move to a new stadium).

[soxrwhite]

I

Edited September 23 by soxrwhite

[soxrwhite]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Plus the risk/reward.  Our fan base literally only shows up after long periods of winning.  It's the very definition of a bandwagon fanbase, like it or not.  What we did for the past 35 years absolutely, unequivocally did not work.  The franchise did nothing to build a new and expanding fanbase at 35th and Shields, despite all of the plentiful parking.  We see the 2025 model out there.  This isn't like 1989 when we were literally the first franchise to build a new park in a long period of time, and couldn't have foreseen the shift.

Today we can see the model for a getting fans to show up to the park even when the team is bad.  It's right there in front of us.  This isn't the Boomer era where 3 hours of baseball is enough.  People want to make a day/evening experience out of this.  They want dinner before hand, and drinks afterwards, with some entertainment in the middle.  We see it all over baseball.  At the absolute very least, even if they go back to the historic neighborhood, they have GOT to plow over some of these lots and do more than build a single game day bar.  The answer is right in front of us.  Something has to give, or what we have seen for the past few years will become more common place.  Either you have a revenue base, or you serve as a minor league franchise for the Have's of MLB.

It really hurts that your post is so godamn accurate.

[waltwilliams]

4 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I'm hard pressed to think of another MLB team that doesn't now or has plans to play in an iconic or highly rated park and/or in a vibrant area (i.e.; popular neighborhood or entertainment district).   Maybe the Brewers with their ballpark surrounded by parking lots is the best answer.  Other than that?  Dodger and Yankee Stadium?  But those are two of the most elite franchises in MLB history and one can argue that their stadiums are considered iconic.  Am I missing anyone?  Chase Field isn't anything special IMO, but is downtown.  Miami's new stadium and its location has been a huge swing and a miss and their attendance has been terrible.  

I just think it's incredulous to think that there's nothing wrong with the current Sox ballpark status and that their attendance right when they won the World Series proves that.    

 

Citi Field (and Shea Stadium before it) is currently surrounded by a wasteland of a neighborhood in Flushing -- all littered streets and autobody shops. (Although Steve Cohen has plans to build a ballpark village around Citi Field) Angel Stadium in Anaheim is surrounded by parking lots -- the Disneyland hotels and Disneyland itself is a half mile away. Royals Stadium is surrounded by parking lots.

They fell a few thousand short of 3 million in 2006, the year after the WS. And from 2005 to 2012 , they averaged 2.4 million fans, according to B-Ref. That's not bad at all for the smallest of the two-team markets, especially considering how challenging Chicago is for the entertainment  dollar in the summer. You have the Cubs, basically a national team, in arguably the most-admired vintage sports stadium in the country. You've got six other pro minor league teams in the area. And you've got Lolla and dozens of other music fests in perhaps the most vibrant summer city in America. The Sox will have to contend with that at any location -- the 78, 35th and Shields or anywhere else.

Also, it bears repeating that the neighborhoods around Sox Park have changed a great deal in the past 30 years. Bridgeport has become one of the hottest neighborhoods in the city: https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20170720/CRED0701/170729995/chicago-s-hottest-neighborhoods-for-home-sales. CPD headquarters is three blocks away in Bronzeville, also home to a major research university and another hot neighborhood, "The Gap", with half-million dollar homes. 

True, the bad neighborhood rap comes a lot from perception. But also true, that perception is primarily from older folks who've moved out of the city and area. 

Edited September 23 by waltwilliams