FloydBannister1983 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, 77 Hitmen said: You'll have to forgive us, it's difficult for long-suffering Sox fans to keep track of all the ways Jerry has damaged the Sox market share in Chicago. Maybe a handy pocket guide or flow chart for the first 10,000 fans through the turnstiles to watch their 110th loss this year? And while we're adding to the list of things we shouldn't forget - how about the whole New Comiskey debacle where JR and EE threatened to move the team to St. Pete and then had a generic, charmless new ballpark built that became outdated and widely disliked 1 year later when Camden Yards opened. Has it ever been confirmed that Jerry was presented with an option to build a retro-park like what the O's did and he rejected it? 35 years later and we're still arguing (with people who aren't Sox fans and even amongst ourselves) about whether the park any is good or not. Earlier, Caulfield mentioned WGN in addition to Harry and Sosa. Let's not forget the whole SportsVision debacle. The Cubs having every game broadcast nationwide on WGN was beyond the Sox control, but JR and EE moved all but a few games to pay TV (for $15/month in 1982 dollars) and a whole generation of Chicago fans grew up watching the Cubs because the Sox were hardly ever on free TV. Maybe 30 games/year on WFLD from 1982 onward? I know it wasn't practical at the time to have every Sox game on free TV since WSNS switched to a pay TV service, but could the Sox have stuck with more free TV games on WGN? In 1981, I believe WGN was scheduled to broadcast (before the strike cancelled a bunch of games) something like 60 Sox games. But Jerry and Eddie didn't want 60 games on free TV because that would have undercut their pay TV scheme. 1990 the Cubs outdraw the Sox by 10% 1991 the Sox outdraw the cubs by 30% - new stadium 1992 the Sox outdraw the cubs by 24% 1993 the Sox and Cubs had nearly equal attendance. 1994 the Sox slightly outdraw the Cubs pre-lockout 1995 the Cubs are 20% higher - Sox 8 games under 500, Cubs 2 games over 500 1996 the Cubs are 32% higher - Sox 8 games over 500, Cubs 10 games under 500 1997 the Cubs are 17% higher - Sox 1 game under 500, Cubs 26 games under 500 Sosa - one all star appearance in 1995. Sosa was not "Sammy!" by 1997. Harry Caray went to the Cubs in 1981. What could have happened specifically to the White Sox in 1994 that led to such a dramatic change in attendance? The Sox never recovered from the Reinsdorf debacle in 1994. Even the 2005-2006 the Cubs outdraw the Sox. It's 100% the lockout that lead to the Sox never recovering Chicago market share. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 They robbed Frank of perhaps one of the top 15 or so greatest offensive seasons of all time. I will never forgive JR for that, and so many other things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77 Hitmen Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 23 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said: 1990 the Cubs outdraw the Sox by 10% 1991 the Sox outdraw the cubs by 30% - new stadium 1992 the Sox outdraw the cubs by 24% 1993 the Sox and Cubs had nearly equal attendance. 1994 the Sox slightly outdraw the Cubs pre-lockout 1995 the Cubs are 20% higher - Sox 8 games under 500, Cubs 2 games over 500 1996 the Cubs are 32% higher - Sox 8 games over 500, Cubs 10 games under 500 1997 the Cubs are 17% higher - Sox 1 game under 500, Cubs 26 games under 500 Sosa - one all star appearance in 1995. Sosa was not "Sammy!" by 1997. Harry Caray went to the Cubs in 1981. What could have happened specifically to the White Sox in 1994 that led to such a dramatic change in attendance? The Sox never recovered from the Reinsdorf debacle in 1994. Even the 2005-2006 the Cubs outdraw the Sox. It's 100% the lockout that lead to the Sox never recovering Chicago market share. You make a strong argument for the 1994 debacle being the worst among PR blunders. It's just sad IMO that we Sox fans have so many PR debacles to choose from and debate which is worse in the Reinsdorf era. All of these events are cumulative and not only one terrible move that led to the franchise's current situation even if JR being the ringleader for cancelling the 1994 season while the Sox were World Series contenders takes the cake. I just disagree that all the other factors had zero % impact on the Sox market share. The Cubs on WGN/Sox on SportsVision with Harry as the Cubs' pied piper era had zero % impact on market share? I have a hard time believing that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 12 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said: You make a strong argument for the 1994 debacle being the worst among PR blunders. It's just sad IMO that we Sox fans have so many PR debacles to choose from and debate which is worse in the Reinsdorf era. All of these events are cumulative and not only one terrible move that led to the franchise's current situation even if JR being the ringleader for cancelling the 1994 season while the Sox were World Series contenders takes the cake. I just disagree that all the other factors had zero % impact on the Sox market share. The Cubs on WGN/Sox on SportsVision with Harry as the Cubs' pied piper era had zero % impact on market share? I have a hard time believing that. The last time in my life I put less effort and time into the White Sox was after 1994. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77 Hitmen Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: The last time in my life I put less effort and time into the White Sox was after 1994. The Reinsdorf era can't end soon enough for me. At least he might be doing one good thing for this franchise on his way out in getting a local, deep-pocketed billionaire lined up to be the next owner. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 6 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said: You make a strong argument for the 1994 debacle being the worst among PR blunders. It's just sad IMO that we Sox fans have so many PR debacles to choose from and debate which is worse in the Reinsdorf era. All of these events are cumulative and not only one terrible move that led to the franchise's current situation even if JR being the ringleader for cancelling the 1994 season while the Sox were World Series contenders takes the cake. I just disagree that all the other factors had zero % impact on the Sox market share. The Cubs on WGN/Sox on SportsVision with Harry as the Cubs' pied piper era had zero % impact on market share? I have a hard time believing that. Probably not zero % but they had been on WGN and had Harry for more than a decade while the Sox were keeping pace with them. It wasn't until post lockout that the Cubs put the Sox in the review mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Putting Romy Gonzalez on waivers. 😯 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 On 7/8/2025 at 12:21 PM, ThirdGen said: Sammy would never have had the same marketing effect with the Sox as he did with the Cubs. The Chicago media was largely controlled by the Tribune, which did a masterful job of promoting Sammy as the shoeshine boy who made it big through hard work. They protected him from any questioning of his sudden physical transformation. The Cubs PR team threatened anyone questioning Sammy with being cut off from access. If this had happened with him in a Sox uniform there would have been daily commentary about the disgraceful Sox cheating to win, and any championship won with him on the roster would have been deemed fraudulent. And the Sox have never been particularly good at PR. 50-60 home runs sort of speaks for itself. If there is a Sox tax on marketing exposure, that’s a shame. But some people just care about the baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 On 6/30/2025 at 9:13 AM, southsider2k5 said: Keith Law LOVED the dude. Someone sure saw him as huge right away. Yeah but that’s in a vacuum. In the sox, he would have been overseen by idiots like Getz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) On 7/2/2025 at 10:23 AM, 77 Hitmen said: So, you think Bell having 64 RBIs in 1993 was worth trading away a generational talent like Sosa? Sosa had 93 RBIs that year vs. Bell's 64 if we're treating that one stat as the only indicator of success. Bell's slash line in 1993 was .217/.243/.363 with a -2.5 WAR. Woof! And where was he during our 1993 postseason when the Sox needed him? We sure could have used Sosa's bat then. After that Bell was out of baseball. He never played another game after 1993. Sox coaching staff being unable to work with such an immense talent speaks more to the failing of this organization than it does to a player whose career took off like a rocket after he left this organization. I don't know about other Sox fans, but I'll take chopped liver over the s%*# sandwich that this trade was for the Sox. And yeah, Sammy turned out to be a huge fraud, but in the meantime he help supercharged the Cubs' edge over the Sox in the Chicago market beginning in 1998 and they've never looked back. Somehow they've survived the embarrassment of Sosa's steroid/corked bat/walking out on the team debacle. Seriously? You’re hyping Sammy bleeping Sosa?! Edited August 23 by ewokpelts 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 I'll never forget Hahn saying that he would not make the Shark trade with Oakland if they didn't include Ynoa. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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