kapkomet Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 08:14 PM) Good grief... not only was I crying from before the start of game 1... I think I was still a bit weapy at the parade. I'm with you. I don't think I will ever be over it. You don't say...? There were probably only 50,000,000 people who knew that, but, well, you know the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 08:14 PM) Good grief... not only was I crying from before the start of game 1... I think I was still a bit weapy at the parade. I'm with you. I don't think I will ever be over it. I still watch at least one game from the collector's DVD each week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 08:06 PM) I really dont like JR's thinking of always hiring from within. For instance with firing the amateur scouting director and replacing him with someone else in the same department. You need a fresh look sometimes and that is something ths Sox lack a lot of. you know, i'll quibble with reinsdorf on a lot of stuff and he's by far from my favorite person. that said, his management philosophy has produced more titles in chicago than pretty much anyone in history. you have to give him credit on that. it's the same with the no-long-term-deal for pitchers thing. on its face i don't like it, but as the statistics cited a few pages ago show, it's been a pretty wise policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:14 PM) Good grief... not only was I crying from before the start of game 1... I think I was still a bit weapy at the parade. I'm with you. I don't think I will ever be over it. But that makes us cowards... I wish I was jaded like the brave few...but I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:18 PM) You don't say...? There were probably only 50,000,000 people who knew that, but, well, you know the rest. I remember it like it was yesterday.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagotony06 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:58 PM) That's copied and pasted from elsewhere. What does it tell you that all of the MLB web sites look almost excatly the same? Perhaps that the Sox have minimal control over content? If you want to believe that Mark will gladly accept $70 million less than Zito because some anonymous source told the Trib so and because the story made it's way to MLB's news wire, go right ahead. I'm staying away from the Kool-Aid. Outside of Lamie Navarro, who was a complete disaster, how many huge contracts have Ron Schueler or Larry Himes given to veteran pitcher in his mid/late 20's? Do you understand now why your anger towards Kenny Williams over this issue is misplaced? If you want to get pissed off at somebody, direct your anger towards the Board of Directors because this is TYPICAL of what they've done for the past 20 years. Agreed about the drafts, but those trades to get Freddy, Jose, Danks, Vazquez, and Thome were far from "questionable." Well that was on their Website so I'm inclined to believe it. I believe if it was over money it would be reported, this way if the deal doesn't happen the fans won't be up in arms over in being over a reported no trade clause. I would think they would try to spin it as MB was asking for too much money, so fand would side with the ORG. or that he wanted to many years. So I believe the guy is gonna take a big discount to stay here. I believe he likes it here, and his insistence on a NTC Proves it to me. My anger towards KW is not only directed at him. I understand he represents JR and the Board, believe me I have anger towrds them as well. To this day I refuse to support the Bulls or anything related to the Bulls after JR dismantled that team and chased away MJ and Phil. So my anger is not only against KW. The way they do business by not signing pitchers to long term deals, which 4 years to me isn't long to begin with, their not signing big name free agents, isn't a good strategy. Especially being in a big market. That's just the way I look at it. As for the trades, Freddy was a good one as was Jose. I'm not yet about to annoit Danks, he hasn't proven much to me yet, he's looked good at times and he has struggled at times. Massett looked good in his one start, which I think he should be inn AAA doing instead of coming out of the pen. So I'm gonna wait and hold off on judging that trade. Vazquez, I'm not sure we needed him. I think he is one of those man crushes Kenny gets on players. He always wanted him and he finally got him. He is nothing special to me at all. The Thome trade I am torn at. We haven't won anything with him, so I'm not sure if that trade was that great. He has injury problems, and at the end of last year he really looked bad, and now this year he is really looking bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:22 PM) My anger towards KW is not only directed at him. I understand he represents JR and the Board, believe me I have anger towrds them as well. To this day I refuse to support the Bulls or anything related to the Bulls after JR dismantled that team and chased away MJ and Phil. So my anger is not only against KW. The way they do business by not signing pitchers to long term deals, which 4 years to me isn't long to begin with, their not signing big name free agents, isn't a good strategy. Especially being in a big market. That's just the way I look at it. Stop living in the past. The past is for cowards! Edited July 2, 2007 by RibbieRubarb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29thandPoplar Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As for the press release, Kw refuses to give Buerhle a NTC. That's pretty common knowledge. So in my eyes he refuses to lock up good starting pitching. Oh you are right I forgot we did lock up the .500 pitcher in JV and the old man in JC. That's a great way to build a rotation. I forgot my bad!! I think if MB wants a full NTC he should get one period. He is taking less to stay here, he wants to be here. He is the type of guy you want to build a rotation around. Him and JG. But KW would rather build it around JV and JC!! Well to be blunt to a degree then your eyes must only see part of the story. Just because the White Sox brass refuse a total no trade clause does not mean they refuse to lock up starting pitching. One does not equal the other. They extended all of these guys before. They extended Buehrle, and Vazquez, and Garland, and Contreras. They extended each and every one of them at one point. They extended Freddy Garcia right after they traded for him as well. So I'm not seeing where Kenny Williams (or Sox brass, whichever terminology is preferred) refuses to lock up starting pitching. It just isn't true. Heck I would like them to sign Buehrle and I see both sides, I clearly understand their position on this NTC (if in fact all this chatter is reality). Personally I believe there is still a compromise to be had here. Whether it happens is another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 01:22 PM) My anger towards KW is not only directed at him. I understand he represents JR and the Board, believe me I have anger towrds them as well. To this day I refuse to support the Bulls or anything related to the Bulls after JR dismantled that team and chased away MJ and Phil. So my anger is not only against KW. The way they do business by not signing pitchers to long term deals, which 4 years to me isn't long to begin with, their not signing big name free agents, isn't a good strategy. Especially being in a big market. That's just the way I look at it. Well, that's not going to change any time soon. So you might as well jump on the Yankees/Mets/Red Sox bandwagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I wonder what percentage of players with blanket NTC get traded. It seems a lot of them do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:24 PM) Stop living in the past. The past is for cowards! Snap, snap, snap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:28 PM) Snap, snap, snap. Oh I went there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagotony06 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:14 PM) Good grief... not only was I crying from before the start of game 1... I think I was still a bit weapy at the parade. I'm with you. I don't think I will ever be over it. I was the same way, and though I will always look back with fond memories, I want more!!! Simple as that. And the way KW and JR are going about business with this MB situation, I don't see this Org. accomplishing that anytime in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:30 PM) I was the same way, and though I will always look back with fond memories, I want more!!! Simple as that. And the way KW and JR are going about business with this MB situation, I don't see this Org. accomplishing that anytime in the near future. Well that's the problem. You're a greedy bastard. You should get along fabulous with the Sox brass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoedairy Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 mark is agreeing to sign for probably 30-40 million dollars less than he could as a free agent and kenny wont even give him a no trade clause. thats just stupid. I dont get how he says he cant build a championship team if he does that. I thought good pitching won championships and we're getting a discount. If the deal falls through now i'll be really angry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagotony06 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:24 PM) Stop living in the past. The past is for cowards! I'm not living in the past. I refuse to support JR while he is still owner of the Bulls, how is that living in the past? I didn't agree with what he did and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 08:27 PM) I wonder what percentage of players with blanket NTC get traded. It seems a lot of them do. Exactly, and this almost proves that the Sox were intending on trading him in a year or so. I've always thought NTC are overrated, as players almost always waive it and accept the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:37 PM) I'm not living in the past. I refuse to support JR while he is still owner of the Bulls, how is that living in the past? I didn't agree with what he did and that's it. Right...and the same ownership and management are running the White Sox since 2005... But we are living in the past. Answer me this...How does one eat when they are speaking from both sides of their mouth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagotony06 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:24 PM) Well to be blunt to a degree then your eyes must only see part of the story. Just because the White Sox brass refuse a total no trade clause does not mean they refuse to lock up starting pitching. One does not equal the other. They extended all of these guys before. They extended Buehrle, and Vazquez, and Garland, and Contreras. They extended each and every one of them at one point. They extended Freddy Garcia right after they traded for him as well. So I'm not seeing where Kenny Williams (or Sox brass, whichever terminology is preferred) refuses to lock up starting pitching. It just isn't true. Heck I would like them to sign Buehrle and I see both sides, I clearly understand their position on this NTC (if in fact all this chatter is reality). Personally I believe there is still a compromise to be had here. Whether it happens is another story. He is locking up starting pitching. He is just locking it up from the wrong end in JV and JC. I would rather he start by locking up MB and JG first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:27 PM) I wonder what percentage of players with blanket NTC get traded. It seems a lot of them do. That's another thing I thought of right away. If this team is winning why would we trade Buehrle to begin with in the next two and a half years? If we're losing I'd bet Mark would be willing to waive that no trade to go to a contender. Obviously I don't know that for sure but I'd be willing to bet on that being the case. It's definitely arguable as to how good Kenny has been in his tenure as gm but I don't see how anyone can defend him in this instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) He is locking up starting pitching. He is just locking it up from the wrong end in JV and JC. I would rather he start by locking up MB and JG first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagotony06 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:47 PM) Truth hurts!! People don't like to hear it I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 01:59 PM) Truth hurts!! People don't like to hear it I guess. No, people just don't like to hear it 20 times in the same thread. Seriously, if you're THAT fed up with the Sox front office, go jump on the Red Sox bandwagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29thandPoplar Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He is locking up starting pitching. He is just locking it up from the wrong end in JV and JC. I would rather he start by locking up MB and JG first. Ok cool, now I understand, it is your opinion. When you stated they refuse to lock up starting pitching, I knew that was not true which is why I responded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSox35 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 This whole thing is a joke and the wool is being pulled over our eyes by Sox management. Letting guys in the past go has worked with mixed success, but this one will be a complete and utter failure on our end. Four years, $56 Million....are you kidding me? Could any of us have thought this was possible? Mark is being more than reasonable - NTC clause or not. Give him the damn clause and let's go to war with MB and JG (and maybe JV) going forward. This is beyond an easy call... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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