Vance Law Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 06:03 PM) And before Pods, who the hell was our last decent leadoff hitter? his name was Ray Durham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 05:17 PM) So Rowand wasn't decent? And before Pods, the last one I can THINK of was maybe Tim Raines. Other than that I can't think of a single person. You gotta give me some props....John Cangelosi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I have a feeling this is the kind of move that people scream about in March and call genius in August. Just kind of feels like one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 01:59 AM) I have a feeling this is the kind of move that people scream about in March and call genius in August. Just kind of feels like one of those. I actually agree with this, as long as he faces RHP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 the real problem with Wise is horrible defense. Guillen clearly either has no clue or doesn't care about outfield defense (Mack, not putting in Anderson to protect Floyd's no hit bid, his love of Owens and Wise). Dye-Wise-Quentin....the worse in baseball, compliments of Ozzie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranktheTank35 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 10:05 PM) the real problem with Wise is horrible defense. Guillen clearly either has no clue or doesn't care about outfield defense (Mack, not putting in Anderson to protect Floyd's no hit bid, his love of Owens and Wise). Dye-Wise-Quentin....the worse in baseball, compliments of Ozzie. Yeah, which comes down to us needing to move Dye. I love the guy, he is an awesome hitter, but hes definitely slowing down on the field. Let him DH next year when Thome goes on, and put Quentin in RF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (jamesdiego @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 08:20 PM) I don't think he's great or anything, but he's WAY better than people around tak about him. Somehow in many Sox fans minds, Wise and Owens got morphed into one freaky being. And it's more of my lack of faith in Mr Anderson. But of course I could be wrong and if he out hits Wise, then he should get most of the playing time. By the end of the year both might be on the bench so Beckham can play SS and Ramirez CF. Sox fans think Wise sucks because through 12 seasons in professional baseball he has sucked. The only players Wise is WAY better than are those low minors filler types. I'd say Wise is WAY better than Micah Schnurstein for instance. QUOTE (jamesdiego @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 08:20 PM) With Wise, he changed his swing before last year. Racked at Charlotte with a .319avg .402obp 9hrs in 55 games, and earned the callup. Hit .288 with us before Ozzie put him in the leadoff. It was too much for him, and sucked it up for the next 8 games with a .080avg. But that was only 8 freaking games until the end of the season that he blew. And it was after he got moved in the leadoff position in the middle of a freakin pennant race. But he then turned it around by hitting .286 with 5 rbi's in the playofffs. Wise tore it up in a bandbox against AAAA players in his 6th season in Triple A. You're taking his brief, as usual, MLB stint in '08 much further than you should. He got 129 AB and hit .248/.293/.450. Only one of those numbers sticks out, and that's his SLG%, which his career history says he won't repeat. Wise is a veteran mistake hitter just like every other AAAA player who has been around as long as he has. Throw him three change-ups low and in and he's done. If it's not a low fastball, a meatball over the heart of the plate, or a hanging breaking ball then he's going to make an out. You also try to make it out like the pressure hurt him. He's played 12 years in professional baseball. If pressure hurts him then that is yet another strike against him. QUOTE (jamesdiego @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 08:20 PM) But I don't support him leading off by any means. I think Oz wants to take it rightfully slow with Getz, but he'll be in the leadoff by years end. Wise should bat only bat against righties, with Brian replacing him at end of games. I believe in a fluid offense and Brian will be a huge black hole. We lived through Mackoviak people, Wise isn't that bad. Ozzie is a moron when it comes to his grinders and he has proven this in the past. Ozzie believes there would be sooooo much pressure on Getz hitting at the top of the lineup but in reality there's no extra pressure than what he'll already be playing under. Being on television and playing in a loud big league stadium for your first full season? Check. Facing Major League pitching regularly for the first time? Check. Knowing the best prospect in the organization competed with you in ST and ALMOST took your job? Check. Knowing there are also two other guys in Lillibridge and Nix who want your spot? Check. Knowing there are playoff expectations and that you have a short leash as a result? Check. Chris' responsibilities at lead off would be: 1) see some pitches, 2) make solid contact, 3) draw walks, 4) be able to advance the runner, 5) make intelligent decisions on the basepaths. Regardless of where he is hitting in the lineup, if he doesn't do all 5 of those things he's going to be sent back down to Charlotte. It's not like the first batter of the game has to play under much harsher conditions or anything, in fact, much of the time you see starting pitchers struggle to find their control through the first few hitters they face, so if you're a patient hitter like Getz is, you've got a better chance of drawing a walk or getting a good pitch to hit. As far as your dislike for Brian Anderson, tell me, why is offense in CF more valuable than defense in CF? Let's just suppose for a second that D-Wise is actually a competent Major League hitter instead of career minor league roster filler. Why would Dewayne's bat over the course of 500-600 AB be more valuable than Anderson's ability to catch the ball over 350-400+ chances and Anderson's ability to throw the ball in every time he catches the ball with a RISP? I know you like a fluid offense, but I like a team that doesn't suck balls. In order to not suck balls, you have to pitch, catch, and throw. As others have pointed out, our team defense is quite possibly the worst in the American League and one of the worst in all of baseball. That doesn't help our pitching very much. Edited March 31, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 This thread is just another pathetic example of ignorant doomsday Sox "fans" spending all their time projecting player failure and b****ing about management moves, but when the team wins the division those same tossers raise a glass and celebrate "Sox Pride". Enjoy the party, losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHizzle85 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 09:29 PM) This thread is just another pathetic example of ignorant doomsday Sox "fans" spending all their time projecting player failure and b****ing about management moves, but when the team wins the division those same tossers raise a glass and celebrate "Sox Pride". Enjoy the party, losers. Well it's called being a fan. If you say that you've been fine with every move the Sox have made since you've been a fan then you sir are a liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (FranktheTank35 @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 09:09 PM) Yeah, which comes down to us needing to move Dye. I love the guy, he is an awesome hitter, but hes definitely slowing down on the field. Let him DH next year when Thome goes on, and put Quentin in RF. I think that all depends on Brandon Allen and Viciedo. If the Sox deem both of those players ready then we might be looking to let go of JD and put Allen in as the DH with Viciedo moving to an OF corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 09:23 PM) As far as your dislike for Brian Anderson, tell me, why is offense in CF more valuable than defense in CF? I'm not the person you were asking... And I happen to like Brian... But regarding your question about offense in CF vs. defense in CF... Statistically speaking, offense has about 2X as much impact as defense. That's not a random swag number... that's the result of research professionals have done on the subject. Obviously you don't want to play someone who is a hack in the field, but offense trumps defense 2:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdiego Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 LOL It's not gonna be the end of the world to have Wise hit against righties. It's pretty simple, I think his at bats against righties are more valuable than the difference between the defense of him and Brian. With Anderson playing against lefties, some righties and being a late defensive replacement it's not that big a deal. And if it turns out to be an albatross defensively, then they have Brian right there. Ozzie made some kind of point in playing Mackoviak over him, but Anderson seems to have won some favor by growing up last year. If it's needed, they will make the change this time. Only time will tell, but I think some posters are gonna change their mind about Wise. Lets get this **** started already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWhiteSoxinNJ Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 09:36 PM) I'm not the person you were asking... And I happen to like Brian... But regarding your question about offense in CF vs. defense in CF... Statistically speaking, offense has about 2X as much impact as defense. That's not a random swag number... that's the result of research professionals have done on the subject. Obviously you don't want to play someone who is a hack in the field, but offense trumps defense 2:1 I wouldn't buy that bridge they're selling then. The difference between a .250 hitter and a .300 hitter over a full season is about 5 hits per month, actually a little less. The difference between a great CF and a poor CF isn't going to even show up on the stat sheet because balls that would be caught fall and baserunners that wouldn't advance do, and no penalty is charged to the fielder. If any of this is true, then I'd like to know why the Royals traded for CoCo Crisp to move David DeJesus out of CF, or why we still don't have Swisher or Griffey, or why Torii Hunter of the career .272/.326/.468 line makes $18M a year. But either way, Wise isn't a .300 hitter, we're talking a .260 hitter at best, which is still higher than his career minor league average, vs. a .230 hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 10:29 PM) This thread is just another pathetic example of ignorant doomsday Sox "fans" spending all their time projecting player failure and b****ing about management moves, but when the team wins the division those same tossers raise a glass and celebrate "Sox Pride". Enjoy the party, losers. You act like there haven't been other threads where the posters on this board are happy about a move, or a development within the organization. You don't even have to look that far. Contereas and Colon, people being optimistic about MacDougal, loving Gordon Beckham, loving Chris Getz, etc. Why should I be happy about this? I've thought about it. There is not a single reason I should be happy about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Wise hasn't drawn a walk in ST, so we decide to lead him off. Great idea! so long as he hits .350 Edited March 31, 2009 by Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 09:29 PM) This thread is just another pathetic example of ignorant doomsday Sox "fans" spending all their time projecting player failure and b****ing about management moves, but when the team wins the division those same tossers raise a glass and celebrate "Sox Pride". Enjoy the party, losers. Definitely a case of you are what your screen name is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzfest Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Wise is in no way shape or form an everyday major leaguer. What a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 01:29 PM) In case you didn't read the back end of the pinned "roster move" thread; Dewayne Wise has been named the starting CF and leadoff man by Ozzie. Let the White Sox optimism commence! http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune....-white-sox.html Then from Cowley's twitter: f***ing awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Philips Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Last year we had Swisher, he was great at getting walks but not to good of an average. Wise not to good at getting walks and had about the same average. Swisher a lousy centerfielder and an average base runner. Wise is a bad centerfielder and a good base runner. Hmm, in the national league because of the pitcher hitting for himself a good leadoff hitter is more important. In the American league not as important. I must say something good about Wise although I prefer to see BA in center. Wise does impress me with his work ethic. He is a grinder I hope his hard work on and off the field can translate into results on the diamond maybe overshadow his lack of walks and obp. Or is it that Ozzie just hates BA. Edited March 31, 2009 by forrestg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 At least BA is the fourth outfielder. He'll play a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 C: Average to below average defensively 1B: Average to below average 2B: Likely average 3B: Probably below average with the potential to be WELL below average SS: Who the f*** knows? Could be well below average, could be well above. My guess: below average LF: Below average CF: Below average RF: Well below average HUZZAH! Luckily we have a high strikeout staff. What? We traded away the only real strikeout pitcher we had? f***. We should save this post. I think you have identified why, on paper, we really may suck this season. Defense and speed are important. Our left side of the infield may be horrific. AJP isn't getting any younger. Up the middle, wow. We are a big question mark at best. This might be the long season we've dreaded for a while. Hope a lot of guys step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I like Dweezy more most here, but as the 9th hitter or only leading off in a platoon, or when BA, full time CF, needs a day or two off. He is not a good full time player at all. I hope BA gets a s***load of playing time cause I'm still a fan of his. And no, Getz isn't the answer at leadoff hitter either (would be an outstanding #2 hitter, as I've said for a while, props to qwerty for that minor league lookup at Getz' numbers as a 1 and 2 hitter, BTW) but he's the best option we got at the moment and he's adaquate enough this season, possibly next till either Jordan Danks develops fast (or the draft since KW is looking at a leadoff hitter there, though to me doesn't make too much sense) future trade or even possibly Beckham though he would be a good 2, 5, or 6 hitter more long term. To most here, I'm sure it's a no brainer that it should be Getz-Alexei as the 1 and 2 hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 03:34 PM) That's all I heard to until this thread. If it's just for opening day, and they are still platooning, then I don't have a problem with it. This is like Alexei starting in CF last year on Opening Day against CLE. It doesn't mean very much in the overall scheme of things. Just because Wise is starting ONE game (I guess against Meche or Greinke) doesn't mean that he will be in there against lefties, that would be suicidal for the line-up. The problem is that teams will have us over a barrel if the platoon doesn't work and it becomes obvious it's costing us games both offensively and defensively. It would have been easy to sign someone like CoCo Crisp for fairly reasonable money and this nightmare wouldn't exist AND continue like a bad soap opera. I do think at least the first series it will be Wise, because the Royals' rotation, if I'm not mistaken, is comprised of all righties (Greinke, Meche, Bannister, Davies, Hochevar, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 10:40 PM) We should save this post. I think you have identified why, on paper, we really may suck this season. Defense and speed are important. Our left side of the infield may be horrific. AJP isn't getting any younger. Up the middle, wow. We are a big question mark at best. This might be the long season we've dreaded for a while. Hope a lot of guys step up. It's still going to come down to pitching. Bonderman, Willis, Mauer and Hafner are either injured or ineffective, that gives us a huge leg up...if we would have just come out of ST w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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