nitetrain8601 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Quite simply, who do you blame? KW, Ozzie, Cooper, Walker or the players. Pick one with a brief synopsis of why. Personally I say it's on the players. KW has done everything he can to put a really nice team on the field on paper. Ozzie really hasn't made any more mistakes this year than he has any other year and has been able to get more out of less players. Cooper has been Cooper, though he may need to work more with bullpen arms. Walker is still Walker, good or bad depending on who you ask. All in all, it seems like the players haven't had a sense of urgency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev211 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Is this really necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) I blame Soxtalk for getting too emotionally attatched to this team. They couldn't handle the insane amount of pressure we put on them. In reality I think blame goes around to everyone. You win and lose as a team. Everyone is to blame for a loss and everyone is to be cheered for a win. Obviously it's not always black and white like that. But you do win and lose as a team. Changes need to be done throughout a season and besides trades, not many changes have happend with this team. They've been terrible on defense all year, overall the pitching hasn't been good, the batting average has been low all year, the way the team approaches situations with baserunners has been terrible too. We're two games under .500, meaning we're basically an average team. Edited August 30, 2009 by WilliamTell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I think our staff is just awful outside of Coop, so I'll just blame Walker just because. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I blame nitetrain... for not PMing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Its the players, just about every one of them is slumping horribly right now and recently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Kenny Williams set the tone by trading Nick Swisher and Javy Vazquez for zero contributors to the 2009 big league team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 03:37 PM) Kenny Williams set the tone by trading Nick Swisher and Javy Vazquez for zero contributors to the 2009 big league team. Oh come on, really? That's your explanation for this? The Swisher and Vazquez trades? Would we be legitimately better if we hadn't dealt those 2 guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 He's trying to say that KW didn't create magic blinders and trick the Yankees in the Swish deal. Honestly, I'm fairly satisfied with the Braves/Javy trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 03:40 PM) He's trying to say that KW didn't create magic blinders and trick the Yankees in the Swish deal. Honestly, I'm fairly satisfied with the Braves/Javy trade. And especially after we saw what happened to the OF market last offseason, just dumping Swisher's salary was a win. If nothing else, I'm much happier having Rios than Swisher at this point, and it's going to take a Swisher-level of failure next season to convince me otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 10:38 PM) Oh come on, really? That's your explanation for this? The Swisher and Vazquez trades? Would we be legitimately better if we hadn't dealt those 2 guys? Yes we would have been better off if we kept those guys. Our lack of major league depth at the beginning of the year saw some just hideous lineups. The Swisher trade was a debacle, and unless Flowers ends up being a decent player, the Javy trade was poor as well. It is fun seeing how many errors Jon Gilmore can make on a given day though, I will admit that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Oh come on, really? That's your explanation for this? The Swisher and Vazquez trades? Would we be legitimately better if we hadn't dealt those 2 guys? Even the 2006 and 2008 versions of Vazquez are better that our 4th and 5th starters this year. He also said that the problems with the trades is that there was zero return for this year's team. The Swisher trade was garbage (remember, I wanted him traded before the season) and whatever "cash savings" that allowed for us to pay $5 million this year for a Chubby Viciedo to put up a .691 OPS and make a ton of errors has been flushed down the toilet with the Rios waiver claim (whose numbers aren't as good as Swisher) and the injured Peavy trade (who can still demand a trade.) Edited August 30, 2009 by santo=dorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Kenny's gone out got a legitimate centerfielder in Alex Rios and an elite starting pitcher in Jake Peavy who is running into some bad luck getting healthy. Wilson Betemit, who made a career out of being a serviceable bench player was a miserable flop. But with a payroll the size of the White Sox, watching this team has been like driving an old jalopy. Players who cost the most amount of wins: José Contreras. Scott Linebrink. Alexei Ramirez. Bobby Jenks has had a few rough spots and health problems. Mark Buehrle has been horrid in the outings since his perfect game, but he's battled hard without his best stuff and given quality starts on at least a few—the offense simply didn't pick him up. You can't fault Carlos Quentin for his injuries, but the offense suffered without his production. For much of the season, Ozzie Guillen was forced to rely upon a cast of inexperienced players like Chris Getz or those who simply weren't very good—like Brent Lillibridge, DeWayne Wise and Brian Anderson. You don't pitch well and your defense gives away too many extra outs, your bats are cold, it's a miracle the White Sox are a .500 team. Edited August 30, 2009 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Schadenfreude doesn't become you fathom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 And especially after we saw what happened to the OF market last offseason, just dumping Swisher's salary was a win. If nothing else, I'm much happier having Rios than Swisher at this point, and it's going to take a Swisher-level of failure next season to convince me otherwise. I certainly hope his time with the Sox so far isn't a preview. He's been worse than Anderson and Wise, and his numbers have been declining for a couple of years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I agree with Fathom For a team that was coming off a division title with expectations to do it again trading a starting OF and SP and getting nothing in return to help your MLB team was not very good. And yes, im aware we cleared salary and got prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 11:48 PM) Schadenfreude doesn't become you fathom. I had to look up what this means, and it's so bogus for you to say that. Hell, I've been on here less in the last week than probably the past 5 seasons because I've been so disgusted by the performance on and off the field and didn't come on here to state the obvious. I absolutely think members of the coaching staff should lose their job for just terrible baseball being played, but I'm not about to start numerous threads on that, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 QUOTE (kev211 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 10:31 PM) Is this really necessary? I don't think so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 QUOTE (T R U @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 10:51 PM) I agree with Fathom For a team that was coming off a division title with expectations to do it again trading a starting OF and SP and getting nothing in return to help your MLB team was not very good. And yes, im aware we cleared salary and got prospects. And it's not like we're just second guessing the trades now. When they were made, we all were wondering what would be done to help the 2009 big league team. We know where the money went now, but the big league squad had to suffer for a few months with just a terrible roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (T R U @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 05:51 PM) I agree with Fathom For a team that was coming off a division title with expectations to do it again trading a starting OF and SP and getting nothing in return to help your MLB team was not very good. And yes, im aware we cleared salary and got prospects. I have to agree with this. Though I don't agree with Gilmore from fathom. He's really improved his hitting after a terrible start and his defense isn't nearly as bad as earlier either. Edited August 30, 2009 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 06:52 PM) I had to look up what this means, and it's so bogus for you to say that. Hell, I've been on here less in the last week than probably the past 5 seasons because I've been so disgusted by the performance on and off the field and didn't come on here to state the obvious. I absolutely think members of the coaching staff should lose their job for just terrible baseball being played, but I'm not about to start numerous threads on that, etc. QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 06:45 PM) It is fun seeing how many errors Jon Gilmore can make on a given day though, I will admit that. Just commenting on your post bashing the players that we got in the trades. With their 2008 outputs, Swisher and Vazquez were never going to get numerous top prospects or younger mlb ready guys. They just weren't good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 The fact that he would spend 11 mil or whatever for Rios and not pony up for a guy like Hudson to have the entire year both confuses and infuriates me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockren Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 05:37 PM) Kenny Williams set the tone by trading Nick Swisher and Javy Vazquez for zero contributors to the 2009 big league team. You're probably right...but I'm still glad they weren't on the team this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 QUOTE (rockren @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 05:57 PM) You're probably right...but I'm still glad they weren't on the team this year. I agree with this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I'd blame it on everyone except Kenny Williams. Putting any blame on him is quite funny to me actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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