Playing a bit deeper on the mentor card- it struck me that Alexei was one of those who Kenny was unhappy with at the end of this season. I could see this as a "straighten out your s***" move directed at Alexei. He now has a resource in Vizquel, and will hopefully take advantage of that to improve his defensive game.

If that's a motivation for the signing its a slap in the face to your manager and bench coach.

so i went through most of the pages and no one has even suggested this could mean lexi to the bo sox for jacoby?? what shame... not saying i want it to happen nor do i think the rumor is true buttttt it wouldnt be toooo bad if it did happen. Her'es how i would handle it.

 

 

1. Jacoby CF

2. Omar 2b (he can handle the bat and would be a perfect guy to hit behind jacoby)

3. Gordo SS

4. CQ RF

5. Russell Branyon/Thome DH (this name hasnt been throw out yet which is surprising)

6. Kong 1B

7. AJ C

8. Rios LF

9. Teahen 3b

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 200916 yr by 2nd_city_saint787

They aren't going to lift Alexei in the late innings or Beckham. Maybe Teahan. What I'm concerned about is the once or twice a week starts Vizquel gets. Want to bet he leads off occassionally?

I won't bet that he'll lead off occasionally because you never know with Ozzie. But I will bet that he will be a late inning defensive replacement at all 3 infield positions. He played 3rd last year for the Rangers when Michael Young got injured and subbed for Kinsler when he got hurt also. He only had 177 at bats the whole year and when he got regular playing time his avg. was right around .300 . He even managed 2 triples in the limited time he got. Not bad for a geezer. The dude can still run unlike Dye. There was speculation he could end up on the Phillies , Indians or Red Sox so it's not like the Sox are getting someone that no one else was interested in. He won't get very many starts unless someone is injured.

Here's an interesting question:

Would we have been better off not acquiring Teahen and signing Omar?

Then we'd have Gordon at third, Omar at short, Lexi at second and Paulie at first. After a year of Omar, we then the following year acquire another OC or Omar-type ss.

Wouldn't it have been smarter than acquiring Teahen to start at third?? Thus moving Beckham to second and keeping Lexi at ss?

Then we'd have Getz and Fields to trade to somebody else for a middle relief candidate or whatever.

I am one fan who would rather have a new veteran ss if it means keeping Gordon at third and moving Lexi back to second.

 

Here's an interesting question:

Would we have been better off not acquiring Teahen and signing Omar?

Then we'd have Gordon at third, Omar at short, Lexi at second and Paulie at first. After a year of Omar, we then the following year acquire another OC or Omar-type ss.

Wouldn't it have been smarter than acquiring Teahen to start at third?? Thus moving Beckham to second and keeping Lexi at ss?

Then we'd have Getz and Fields to trade to somebody else for a middle relief candidate or whatever.

I am one fan who would rather have a new veteran ss if it means keeping Gordon at third and moving Lexi back to second.

Not really. At this point in his career Omar is not a full time player any more. For some reason many people think Alexei was a better 2nd baseman than he was a SS. Myself, I don't see that and I think the defensive metrics everyone likes to use say the same thing. Alexei is better at SS. I saw plenty of improvement in Beckham at 3rd but his future is as a 2nd baseman . He only played third out of necessity last year.

Here's an interesting question:

Would we have been better off not acquiring Teahen and signing Omar?

Then we'd have Gordon at third, Omar at short, Lexi at second and Paulie at first. After a year of Omar, we then the following year acquire another OC or Omar-type ss.

Wouldn't it have been smarter than acquiring Teahen to start at third?? Thus moving Beckham to second and keeping Lexi at ss?

Then we'd have Getz and Fields to trade to somebody else for a middle relief candidate or whatever.

I am one fan who would rather have a new veteran ss if it means keeping Gordon at third and moving Lexi back to second.

No.

Here's an interesting question:

Would we have been better off not acquiring Teahen and signing Omar?

Then we'd have Gordon at third, Omar at short, Lexi at second and Paulie at first. After a year of Omar, we then the following year acquire another OC or Omar-type ss.

 

 

No, we wouldn't "have" that, they wouldn't move Alexei again for Omar Vizquel age 43.

 

 

Why has this signing been so polarizing again? We have an excellent defensive infielder who can play 3 positions, which was a BIG problem last year.

No, we wouldn't "have" that, they wouldn't move Alexei again for Omar Vizquel age 43.

 

 

Why has this signing been so polarizing again? We have an excellent defensive infielder who can play 3 positions, which was a BIG problem last year.

Everything is polarizing around here. You know the old saying., "Opinions are like a--holes, every ones got one."

not a bad pickup especially if he puts up the same numbers as last year .

Well I can name countless people who have more relevant thoughts (KW, Hahn, Reinsdorf, KW's assistant, Hahn's assistant, anyone who is working on the potential contract, Vizquel's agent, Vizquel's agents assistant):

 

IE Those people who are in the loop.

 

Conversely, if the question was about "Where will Vizquel play" or "How will Vizquel be used", Ozzie would be the most relevant source.

 

Just because Ozzie is the manager of the White Sox, does not mean he has relevant information about trades.

 

Ozzie himself admits this:

 

 

 

Notice how he says "They aren't telling me anything."

 

If he isnt being told anything, how does he have relevant information?

 

I understand that Ozzie as manager, may be in the loop, but since he explicitly states that he is not, I just dont understand why hes being quoted on this potential deal. Unless the premise of the article is to show that Ozzie isnt being kept in the loop on trades because he leaks things.

 

Call me crazy... but I'd rather hear Ozzie's thoughts about an Omar Vizquel signing before any of the other people you named outside of KW. It doesn't matter if he's in the loop. I mean, the fact that he says he's not is more interesting/newsworthy then anything Rick Hahn could give you about Omar frickin' Vizquel.

 

I could not care less what Omar Vizquel's agent or Rick Hahn has to say about this. I could care less if they even sign Omar Vizquel.

 

This is a minor minor minor minor move. Who seriously wants to hear Rick Hahn's thoughts about it?

 

Not trying to be a jerk... just saying.

Omar Vizquel is nowhere near a starting caliber baseball player at this point in his career, everybody just get that out of your heads now. He should still be an elite defender at SS and play very well at both 2B and 3B but he has a 43 year old body that can't hold up to more than a start or 2 a week and most importantly he's an awful offensive player, he'll do all that little bulls*** that people small-ball lovers crave but he'll give you nothing else at the plate. This isn't a National League team and it's not 1988.

Call me crazy... but I'd rather hear Ozzie's thoughts about an Omar Vizquel signing before any of the other people you named outside of KW. It doesn't matter if he's in the loop. I mean, the fact that he says he's not is more interesting/newsworthy then anything Rick Hahn could give you about Omar frickin' Vizquel.

 

I could not care less what Omar Vizquel's agent or Rick Hahn has to say about this. I could care less if they even sign Omar Vizquel.

 

This is a minor minor minor minor move. Who seriously wants to hear Rick Hahn's thoughts about it?

 

Not trying to be a jerk... just saying.

 

Your not being a jerk, Im just some what perplexed as to how your last post explains how Ozzie's statements are relevant to whether or not Vizquel is being signed by the Sox. It seems you are saying that Ozzie is more interesting/newsworthy.

 

I was saying that Ozzie Guillen is not a relevant source of whether or not Vizquel has been signed or is going to be signed. I said the other people would have more information on that subject.

 

This isnt about whats "interesting" or what is "entertaining" this is about cold hard facts. And according to Ozzie Guillen, he is not in the loop, so he doesnt really have any facts on the situation.

 

 

The last time Vizquel had an average enough season with the bat offensively was in 2006 with the Giants.

 

Since then, he's put GPA's of .216, .192 and .222.

 

So as Kalapse said, there's no way in hell this guy is going to be anything close to a starter if he's signed.

 

Late inning defensive replacement etc. that'll be it.

 

FWIW though, his RZR in 2009 at SS was .903. That's pretty elite (Uribe in his best defensive season with the Sox had something around a .900 RZR IIRC).

 

Alexei Ramirez had a RZR of .815 in 2009 at SS, so at least there's a definite improvement shown defensively.

It's another one of those "we have had our eye on him years." Anyway he is still good with the glove

...there's no way in hell this guy is going to be anything close to a starter if he's signed.

 

I would have the thought the same with Wise and Lillibridge last year and they got way too many starts for my liking.

Omar is past his prime for sure (like the alomars, griffey jr when kenny acquired them) but I think it's a good move. The Sox needed a utility infielder that could play some good defense (Nix can't, didn't he make 10 errors in a month last year??)...

Omar is past his prime for sure (like the alomars, griffey jr when kenny acquired them) but I think it's a good move. The Sox needed a utility infielder that could play some good defense (Nix can't, didn't he make 10 errors in a month last year??)...

Nix is outstanding defensively at 2b. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case at ss or 3b

It's another one of those "we have had our eye on him years." Anyway he is still good with the glove

KW was waiting until he had just enough seasoning.

Your not being a jerk, Im just some what perplexed as to how your last post explains how Ozzie's statements are relevant to whether or not Vizquel is being signed by the Sox. It seems you are saying that Ozzie is more interesting/newsworthy.

 

I was saying that Ozzie Guillen is not a relevant source of whether or not Vizquel has been signed or is going to be signed. I said the other people would have more information on that subject.

 

This isnt about whats "interesting" or what is "entertaining" this is about cold hard facts. And according to Ozzie Guillen, he is not in the loop, so he doesnt really have any facts on the situation.

 

 

I guess to each his own.

 

I find this story somewhat newsworthy (not entertaining):

Ozzie has talked to Vizquel and KW won't clue Ozzie in to whether or not they will sign him.

 

It lets us know a little about how they are currently operating, and also that KW considers Ozzie a leak (I guess no surprise because he's always talking).

 

Rick Hahn and KW won't tell you anything about negotiations until after the fact, so anything they have to say would be of the "We're always on the lookout for a player of Omar Vizquel's caliber" variety.

 

When they say something factual, it will be "We signed him."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess to each his own.

 

I find this story somewhat newsworthy (not entertaining):

Ozzie has talked to Vizquel and KW won't clue Ozzie in to whether or not they will sign him.

 

It lets us know a little about how they are currently operating, and also that KW considers Ozzie a leak (I guess no surprise because he's always talking).

 

Rick Hahn and KW won't tell you anything about negotiations until after the fact, so anything they have to say would be of the "We're always on the lookout for a player of Omar Vizquel's caliber" variety.

 

When they say something factual, it will be "We signed him."

 

 

I cant remember a time that a GM was talking about a player during negotiations or before that player was even courted or signed. It may be known that X team is negotiating with Y player, but you never heard Brian Cashman come out and say "Yeah, we threw 180 million at CC yesterday, lets see what happens".

 

In other words, its always after the fact

if the vizquel signing is true im one who likes it.

He is a very good bunter. That will definitely help to Ozzie's liking.

He is a very good bunter. That will definitely help to Ozzie's liking.

The only problem with that: if he's sent out to pinch hit, the other team knows to expect a bunt, because they know that he can't hit.

The only problem with that: if he's sent out to pinch hit, the other team knows to expect a bunt, because they know that he can't hit.

 

Meh.. runner on first. He pinch hits. Lays down a beauty of a bunt even with a drawn in infield. Runner moves to second. Boom, success... till the others have to step in the box for RBI opportunities.

Meh.. runner on first. He pinch hits. Lays down a beauty of a bunt even with a drawn in infield. Runner moves to second. Boom, success... till the others have to step in the box for RBI opportunities.

yep now if we can get a player that will get the guy in from 2nd .