Keeping Kenny or Keeping Ozzie

[Quin]

Ozzie gone before Kenny, everyday of the week

 

If Kenny were fired, the message sent to the new GM, I'm assuming Rick Hahn, would be that Ozzie has control over the roster and we'd be stuck with slappy NL style baseball players.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Quinarvy

[Jordan4life_2007]

I've been as hard on Kenny as anyone. But I'll never criticize him for the Peavy deal. So forget about Clayton Richard. Gio? I like him. But he net us Gavin Floyd. Daniel Hudson? Inexcusable.

 

And yes, I want Ozzie gone last week.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Jordan4life

[JorgeFabregas]

On a case by case basis, Edwin Jackson is still kicking Hudson's butt. And we got him because we needed results now for a pennant race

Which cases are you considering? Game by game? Or are you counting Hudson's White Sox starts vs. Jackson's White Sox starts? You don't trade or acquire a player's past--you trade for their future.

Edited September 16, 2010 by JorgeFabregas

[southsideirish71]

I've been as hard on Kenny as anyone. But I'll never criticize him for the Peavy deal. So forget about Clayton Richard. Gio? I like him. But he net us Gavin Floyd. Daniel Hudson? Inexcusable.

 

And yes, I want Ozzie gone last week.

 

People forget the most inexcusable thing, Jackson is a boras client. There is ZERO chance he signs here. IF he does well, Boras will whore him out on the market. If he sucks, then its a one year deal, again if he sucks then really this was a disaster.

 

And he will not provide a pick, so thats out. And Kenny doesn't trade away, he adds because Double Down is all in.

 

 

[Butter Parque]

So basically everyone here is saying that Ozzie is the reason Mark Teahen is the world's dullest player and should never be a starter for a contending team.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Kenny traded a good young pitcher who had some success here for an injury-riddled, expensive pitcher who was below average and then surprisingly suffered another serious injury.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Carlos Quentin's 2008 season was a mere abberation.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Bobby Jenks is a fat piece of s*** and wasn't available when we needed him the most.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that he had a AAA 2nd lefty out of the bullpen who he couldn't use unless he was up or below 6 runs, thus forcing him to drastically overuse Thornton early in the season.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Scott Linebrink is a waste of flesh who pitches like Randy Williams, except makes closers money/

 

It's Ozzie's fault that his supposed best player (Beckham) was a mental midget for the first 3 months.

 

Ozzie is far from the best manager in the world, but anyone who thinks this season is his fault is out of their mind.

 

People forget Jim Thome hit .245 and .249 for us his last 2 years. Don't people remember him striking out in huge situations on most occasions at the tail end of his stay here. The guy was great for awhile but he was taking up space at the end.

 

Kenny was a fool to listen to Ozzie about Kotsay, Ozzie isn't a personnel director. Kenny is his boss, he should have known better.

[daggins]

It is Ozzie's fault for giving away outs like candy and for putting games out of reach with some baffling pitching decisions.

 

I don't think he should be canned but this is really a tandem effort and I wouldn't cry to see both them gone. If only as some sign of accountability.

[Butter Parque]

I think definitely Ozzie has given away outs this season. But just imagine how bad this offense would have been if he wasn't constantly putting runners in motion. This lineup has more speed than power. But what it really lacks is ability.

[fathom]

I think definitely Ozzie has given away outs this season. But just imagine how bad this offense would have been if he wasn't constantly putting runners in motion. This lineup has more speed than power. But what it really lacks is ability.

 

What it really lacks is home run threats outside of Konerko, Jones, Ramirez, Rios, and Quentin.

[Butter Parque]

Carlos Quentin and Andruw Jones are hitting .236 and .228 respectively. They are a threat to do little.

[kwolf68]

 

Not sure who should go, but neither one will. If I had my pick I'd say Kenny Williams, it seems he just makes trades now for the sake of trading and has now shipped 3 excellent starting pitchers...all young...all cheap to other teams for overpriced players (Peavy), crappy players (Swisher) or guys who won't be around very long anyway (Jackson).

 

Having faith in the young guys, faith in your coaching would have eliminated the necessity of having to go get Jake Peavy or Edwin Jackson, which would have freed up money to address the disgusting situation at third base.

 

And speaking of third base, what drug was Williams on thinking a guy who Kansas City dumped off third base could come to Chicago and man that position? Mark Teahen plays terrible terrible defense and has absolutely no power for a corner fielder. So what is his use again? On a championship team?

 

All told the outfield wasn't halfbad even with CQ's struggles this year. Rios had a good year...Quentin could still get to 30 homers and Piere will steal 60+ bases. Although defensively the OF is still average at best.

 

It appears none of the players obtained for Vazquez will amount to much. Flowers will need to really come on next year, but overall he looks awful. Lillibridge wasn't so bad, but looks to me like a utility type. Given what we have given up for players, it seems we surely didn't max our value for Javy.

 

Kenny Williams is just like the dude in your fantasy league who just likes making trades.

 

 

[SoxAce]

People forget Jim Thome hit .245 and .249 for us his last 2 years. Don't people remember him striking out in huge situations on most occasions at the tail end of his stay here. The guy was great for awhile but he was taking up space at the end.

 

Yikes.

 

BTW, looking at your post, you look at (and take) batting average waaaay too seriously.

[greg775]

So basically everyone here is saying that Ozzie is the reason Mark Teahen is the world's dullest player and should never be a starter for a contending team.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Kenny traded a good young pitcher who had some success here for an injury-riddled, expensive pitcher who was below average and then surprisingly suffered another serious injury.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Carlos Quentin's 2008 season was a mere abberation.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Bobby Jenks is a fat piece of s*** and wasn't available when we needed him the most.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that he had a AAA 2nd lefty out of the bullpen who he couldn't use unless he was up or below 6 runs, thus forcing him to drastically overuse Thornton early in the season.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Scott Linebrink is a waste of flesh who pitches like Randy Williams, except makes closers money/

 

It's Ozzie's fault that his supposed best player (Beckham) was a mental midget for the first 3 months.

 

Ozzie is far from the best manager in the world, but anyone who thinks this season is his fault is out of their mind.

 

People forget Jim Thome hit .245 and .249 for us his last 2 years. Don't people remember him striking out in huge situations on most occasions at the tail end of his stay here. The guy was great for awhile but he was taking up space at the end.

 

Kenny was a fool to listen to Ozzie about Kotsay, Ozzie isn't a personnel director. Kenny is his boss, he should have known better.

 

 

Not sure who should go, but neither one will. If I had my pick I'd say Kenny Williams, it seems he just makes trades now for the sake of trading and has now shipped 3 excellent starting pitchers...all young...all cheap to other teams for overpriced players (Peavy), crappy players (Swisher) or guys who won't be around very long anyway (Jackson).

 

Having faith in the young guys, faith in your coaching would have eliminated the necessity of having to go get Jake Peavy or Edwin Jackson, which would have freed up money to address the disgusting situation at third base.

 

And speaking of third base, what drug was Williams on thinking a guy who Kansas City dumped off third base could come to Chicago and man that position? Mark Teahen plays terrible terrible defense and has absolutely no power for a corner fielder. So what is his use again? On a championship team?

 

All told the outfield wasn't halfbad even with CQ's struggles this year. Rios had a good year...Quentin could still get to 30 homers and Piere will steal 60+ bases. Although defensively the OF is still average at best.

 

It appears none of the players obtained for Vazquez will amount to much. Flowers will need to really come on next year, but overall he looks awful. Lillibridge wasn't so bad, but looks to me like a utility type. Given what we have given up for players, it seems we surely didn't max our value for Javy.

 

Kenny Williams is just like the dude in your fantasy league who just likes making trades.

 

 

Just wanted to praise both posts and posters.

Please post more.

Great great stuff in both posts.

 

I especially loved the line about the disgusting situation at third base. Worded perfectly.

[whitesoxfan99]

Not sure who should go, but neither one will. If I had my pick I'd say Kenny Williams, it seems he just makes trades now for the sake of trading and has now shipped 3 excellent starting pitchers...all young...all cheap to other teams for overpriced players (Peavy), crappy players (Swisher) or guys who won't be around very long anyway (Jackson).

 

Swisher is a very good player who had a bad year with the Sox. He is hitting .288 with a .876 OPS and 26 HRs this year. The problem with the Swisher trade was dumping him for nothing the next year when his value was at its lowest point. And Clayton Richard isn't excellent, he is a product of pitching in San Diego just like just about everyone else on that staff.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Swisher is a very good player who had a bad year with the Sox. He is hitting .288 with a .876 OPS and 26 HRs this year. The problem with the Swisher trade was dumping him for nothing the next year when his value was at its lowest point. And Clayton Richard isn't excellent, he is a product of pitching in San Diego just like just about everyone else on that staff.

 

Except for Mat Latos.

[Quin]

So basically everyone here is saying that Ozzie is the reason Mark Teahen is the world's dullest player and should never be a starter for a contending team.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Kenny traded a good young pitcher who had some success here for an injury-riddled, expensive pitcher who was below average and then surprisingly suffered another serious injury.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Carlos Quentin's 2008 season was a mere abberation.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Bobby Jenks is a fat piece of s*** and wasn't available when we needed him the most.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that he had a AAA 2nd lefty out of the bullpen who he couldn't use unless he was up or below 6 runs, thus forcing him to drastically overuse Thornton early in the season.

 

It's Ozzie's fault that Scott Linebrink is a waste of flesh who pitches like Randy Williams, except makes closers money/

 

It's Ozzie's fault that his supposed best player (Beckham) was a mental midget for the first 3 months.

 

Ozzie is far from the best manager in the world, but anyone who thinks this season is his fault is out of their mind.

 

People forget Jim Thome hit .245 and .249 for us his last 2 years. Don't people remember him striking out in huge situations on most occasions at the tail end of his stay here. The guy was great for awhile but he was taking up space at the end.

 

Kenny was a fool to listen to Ozzie about Kotsay, Ozzie isn't a personnel director. Kenny is his boss, he should have known better.

 

Ozzie was rid of Teahen soon enouugh.

Peavy was not injury riddled before he came here. He's had two freak injuries. Also, the Clayton Richard overvaluing needs to stop. He was a 5th starter at best here.

Quentin's blame is solely on him.

Ozzie had two other closers in the pen available.

Not Ozzie's fault for Williams.

Scott Linebrink has not lost the Sox an unworldly amount of games this year. He's been fine, just massively overpaid.

Ozzie didn't do Gordon any favors by having him bunt into outs to start the year, but thats on Gordon.

Ozzie is responsible 99% for the rotating DH bulls***.

Thome had low averages but an OBP of .362 and .372 in those years.

 

I'd be fine with both of them back next year, but I prefer Kenny all the way to Ozzie and that's because Ozzie is the one who insisted on playing NL style slappy run baseball and run into out after out after out after out.

[Quin]

Also, you know what? The Mark Teahen trade was not terrible.

 

We traded a piece of crap third baseman who is worse defensively than Teahen, gives no hustle, and can't hit a fastball along with a second baseman with the power of Juan Pierre, no average, average at best defense, and has more magical injuries than anyone in the world.

 

Also, over a full season Teahen had never been this bad defensively.

 

What was bad was the extension, thats it.

[kitekrazy]

Swisher is a very good player who had a bad year with the Sox. He is hitting .288 with a .876 OPS and 26 HRs this year. The problem with the Swisher trade was dumping him for nothing the next year when his value was at its lowest point. And Clayton Richard isn't excellent, he is a product of pitching in San Diego just like just about everyone else on that staff.

 

I remember how bad that trade was getting Betimit who sucked but eventually hurt the Sox being on the Royals. So he's hurt the team twice.

Back to Swisher, funny how players change when they go to a team where winning is a habit.

 

[kitekrazy]

Also, you know what? The Mark Teahen trade was not terrible.

 

We traded a piece of crap third baseman who is worse defensively than Teahen, gives no hustle, and can't hit a fastball along with a second baseman with the power of Juan Pierre, no average, average at best defense, and has more magical injuries than anyone in the world.

 

Also, over a full season Teahen had never been this bad defensively.

 

What was bad was the extension, thats it.

 

Yeah that extension is mind boggling.

 

[kitekrazy]

that's because Ozzie is the one who insisted on playing NL style slappy run baseball and run into out after out after out after out.

 

odd how they already matched last year's victories and the season isn't over

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

odd how they already matched last year's victories and the season isn't over

 

Does that really matter when they'll probably finish anywhere from 8-10 games behind a MUCH superior team? I can't believe some are taking solace out of the possibility of possibly winning 85-88 games. This is Chicago. Not f***ing Pittsburgh.

[maggsmaggs]

Also, you know what? The Mark Teahen trade was not terrible.

 

We traded a piece of crap third baseman who is worse defensively than Teahen, gives no hustle, and can't hit a fastball along with a second baseman with the power of Juan Pierre, no average, average at best defense, and has more magical injuries than anyone in the world.

 

Also, over a full season Teahen had never been this bad defensively.

 

What was bad was the extension, thats it.

Teahen is underrated by so many people it's ridiculous. So what that our hot streak coincided with his injury, it was pure coincidence. The Sox have just misused Teahen this year. He should be playing 3-4 times a week in a super utility role playing 3rd (in a pinch), 2nd, 1st, LF and RF giving average D in most of the positions and solid offense of a bench player. It's just Ozzie and Kenny thought he was a starter at third (his worst defensive position), which I don't get. Didn't they watch tape or look at his fielding metrics to know how poor he plays over there? I am still a Teahen fan, and he still can have value as a utility player. If only he was paid like one.

 

Swisher is an overrated hitter and bad fielder. He has had like one really good here in his career and it's come hitting in baseball's best lineup in a ballpark designed for him.

 

Clayton is a backend AL starter and nothing special.

[LittleHurt05]

It's funny how so many people around here blame Ozzie for this season and want him gone ASAP, while so many outside analysts have called this Ozzie's greatest managerial effort yet, even better than 2005.

 

He took a team dead in the water in late May and got them to believe and play some incredible baseball and get back in the pennant race. Interleague or not, its still not easy to win that many baseball games at once.

[Milkman delivers]

I used to want to keep KW and get rid of Ozzie. Then, I didn't care if either went as long as Ozzie went first.

 

At this point, I don't even give a f***. Get rid of one or both, but definitely at least one of them. I'm tired of the same old faces with seemingly no consequences based on performance. The only time there might be a consequence for a member of this organization is if they embezzle money from the team or if they get into Ozzie's doghouse.

 

A head or two needs to roll.

[Milkman delivers]

What about 3 fourth or fifth starters because, apparently, that's the OP's point....we should have hung onto a bunch of bottom of the rotation pitchers because they're cheap.

 

 

KW has been an absolute Godsend to this franchise. Our drafts are looking CONSIDERABLY better (see Sale, Beckham, Mitchell), we've stolen some great undervalued talent from other teams, and, other than the aforementioned 4&5 SPs, we haven't given up dick. Not to mention the fact he actually wants to win. Other than a hiccup here or there, he doesn't sign bad contracts that are anchors to this team.

 

OG is the problem with this team. For a guy who has played as much baseball as he has, watched as much baseball as he has, and coached as much as he has...the guy makes some of the most idiotic management decisions I've ever seen....and it's getting worse! You'd think he'd have learned by now what works well and what doesn't but, nope, he just continues to make the same poor choices. I hope he's gone before opening day.

 

Which is opposed to most other GM's mantras of "I really hope we lose."

[mmmmmbeeer]

Which is opposed to most other GM's mantras of "I really hope we lose."

 

 

While veiled, my point was that he doesn't believe in 5 year rebuilds....he always wants to be competitive.