Jenksismyhero Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 11:28 AM) Even if you had some magic button to push that could eliminate all the shadiness, its still not going to make teams outside of the 10-20 top ones automatically contenders for championships. They simply dont have the facilities nor the actual location to pull in the top talent. You can clearly trace where the top college programs are by looking at the areas where more of the top recruits are from. But those are things the NCAA can't control. This you can. I have to believe that if Miami gets the death penalty here every other program will clean house of this kind of activity. Currently it's worth it to skirt the rule because the penalties don't prevent the school from competing at a high level or from raking in tons of money. They need to start hitting the schools hard, regardless of their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) But those are things the NCAA can't control. This you can. I have to believe that if Miami gets the death penalty here every other program will clean house of this kind of activity. Currently it's worth it to skirt the rule because the penalties don't prevent the school from competing at a high level or from raking in tons of money. They need to start hitting the schools hard, regardless of their history. Here's the issue though...how long has it been since Miami has been a major, relevant power in college athletics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 11:51 AM) Seriously? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 11:38 AM) If you took all of the illegal stuff out of recruiting (not sure if that's possible, but for the sake of argument we'll throw the scenario out there), the top programs would mostly stay the same. There would be a few changes, but I think in this scenario most kids would just play close to home. And home for most of the top recruits is Florida, Texas, California, Georgia, Ohio, Louisiana, South Carolina, etc. I would bet it would only strengthen the top programs, because it would give the top kids less reasons to go somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 01:02 PM) I would bet it would only strengthen the top programs, because it would give the top kids less reasons to go somewhere else. Assuming that the current situation is that those top programs aren't paying a fortune for the top kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:07 PM) Assuming that the current situation is that those top programs aren't paying a fortune for the top kids. Even if they are, those cycles are self-perpetuating. If you have the choice between Texas and Rice for football, you are going to Texas, even if no one is paying you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) Even if they are, those cycles are self-perpetuating. If you have the choice between Texas and Rice for football, you are going to Texas, even if no one is paying you. Depends. If Texas just signed a big shot QB last year, and youre a QB, why would you go there to sit on the bench for 3 years? Hell, somehow IU just scored a big shot QB. I still don't know how that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:13 PM) Depends. If Texas just signed a big shot QB last year, and youre a QB, why would you go there to sit on the bench for 3 years? Hell, somehow IU just scored a big shot QB. I still don't know how that happened. Yet it happens all of the time. Odds are the entire QB depth chart at a place like Texas is better than a place like Rice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:13 PM) Depends. If Texas just signed a big shot QB last year, and youre a QB, why would you go there to sit on the bench for 3 years? Hell, somehow IU just scored a big shot QB. I still don't know how that happened. The facilities, coaching staff, location, etc are all items that give the "powers" an advantage. There is an outlier here and there within those regions, but for the most part, the talent funnels in one direction and thats to the large schools with huge rich athletic programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 11:59 AM) Nope. You f***er. That would have been awesome. I am very anxious to see if anything comes of it in the media. Bama has been getting crucified by SBB with photo evidence and still nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I love that the guy who handed down the USC sanctions was the Miami athletic director during most of the time these violations happened. The NCAA is just an outstanding organization. Edited August 17, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 So if these are all proven, what happens to the players and coaches that arent at Miami i.e. Marve the starting QB at Purdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:22 PM) So if these are all proven, what happens to the players and coaches that arent at Miami i.e. Marve the starting QB at Purdue. If I were those schools, there is absolutely zero chance I'd let those guys on the field this season. Miami has to bench any current players in that report, too, IMO. Edited August 17, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 11:59 AM) Here's the issue though...how long has it been since Miami has been a major, relevant power in college athletics? 2 NC championship games in 2002 and 2003 and a BCS bowl in 2004. I'd say that's still pretty relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:25 PM) If I were those schools, there is absolutely zero chance I'd let those guys on the field this season. I wonder if Seantreal Henderson is going to transfer again. He seems to be a compliance jinx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:28 PM) 2 NC championship games in 2002 and 2003 and a BCS bowl in 2004. I'd say that's still pretty relevant. I think a bigger issue is Miami really hasn't done a great deal of relevant things on the field in the last several years even with all of these illegal benefits happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:29 PM) I think a bigger issue is Miami really hasn't done a great deal of relevant things on the field in the last several years even with all of these illegal benefits happening. ?? This new allegation starts in 2002 (and probably before). So that's 3 BCS bowls in the period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:31 PM) ?? This new allegation starts in 2002 (and probably before). So that's 3 BCS bowls in the period. My point is they haven't been to a BCS Bowl the last 7 seasons, even with all of this cheating going on. You'd think cheating on this level would be worth more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 01:28 PM) 2 NC championship games in 2002 and 2003 and a BCS bowl in 2004. I'd say that's still pretty relevant. Take a look though, that's 7 years since they appeared in a BCS bowl. If Miami go the "Death Sentence", how much money does that cost the NCAA? This isn't Alabama or Florida getting it right now, this is a team that hasn't been at the top for a while. This isn't USC getting it over the Bush thing when they still were a powerhouse. This isn't Ohio State blocking its guys from playing in bowl games last year. This is a team that has been down from its peak for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Reading every aspect of the story, I'm really not sure how Miami is even going to defend itself. The evidence is beyond overwhelming. Charles Robinson deserves any and every award he can get for that story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:41 PM) Reading every aspect of the story, I'm really not sure how Miami is even going to defend itself. The evidence is beyond overwhelming. Charles Robinson deserves any and every award he can get for that story. He really smoked Dohrman when it comes to investigative reporting. However, the only reason SMU got the death penalty is because they got caught and kept doing the same thing. I dont think Miami will face that, at least I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:48 PM) He really smoked Dohrman when it comes to investigative reporting. However, the only reason SMU got the death penalty is because they got caught and kept doing the same thing. I dont think Miami will face that, at least I hope not. I don't see any way they don't make an example of Miami. They are going to get the worst penalties (in division I, I think some smaller schools have received the death penalty since) since SMU, there is no doubt about that. You're right that SMU is different in the sense they got caught and kept doing it, but I just wonder if the NCAA is going to take the stance they have to do something extreme to try and stop cheating. Especially considering how many more cheaters have been getting caught in recent years. Edited August 17, 2011 by whitesoxfan101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:35 PM) Take a look though, that's 7 years since they appeared in a BCS bowl. If Miami go the "Death Sentence", how much money does that cost the NCAA? This isn't Alabama or Florida getting it right now, this is a team that hasn't been at the top for a while. This isn't USC getting it over the Bush thing when they still were a powerhouse. This isn't Ohio State blocking its guys from playing in bowl games last year. This is a team that has been down from its peak for a long time. I put them in the same league as Notre Dame - a powerhouse that's a powerhouse even if they don't win. They bring in highly ranked recruiting classes nearly every year. 2012 they're currently at #5 according to Rivals. They're not at the peak they were in the early 00's, but they're right there. And I could give a s*** about how much this costs the NCAA. That joke of an organization makes bazillions every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 01:53 PM) I put them in the same league as Notre Dame - a powerhouse that's a powerhouse even if they don't win. They bring in highly ranked recruiting classes nearly every year. 2012 they're currently at #5 according to Rivals. They're not at the peak they were in the early 00's, but they're right there. And I could give a s*** about how much this costs the NCAA. That joke of an organization makes bazillions every year. Notre Dame is a money powerhouse in a way that Miami currently is not though. The Death Sentence for Notre Dame costs a ton of people a ton of money. The Death Sentence for Miami doesn't feel like it changes much to me. If I were buying people for one of the top flight SEC schools, Miami getting the death sentence wouldn't scare me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 17, 2011 -> 12:56 PM) Notre Dame is a money powerhouse in a way that Miami currently is not though. The Death Sentence for Notre Dame costs a ton of people a ton of money. The Death Sentence for Miami doesn't feel like it changes much to me. If I were buying people for one of the top flight SEC schools, Miami getting the death sentence wouldn't scare me. Florida gets that much stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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