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Official 2011-2012 NCAA Football Thread


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QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 02:41 AM)
Oklahoma State played a better schedule in a better conference and has better wins. The only tangible argument for Alabama is their loss is better, but their loss is to a team they don't deserve a rematch with anyway. Alabama didn't win (or tie) for their conference, they didn't win (or tie) for their division. To have them in the national championship game is hilariously stupid.

 

And I'm tired of people saying "Alabama is the second best team". How do we know? Because they played well against Arkansas at home and won at an overrated Penn State outfit? Oklahoma State absolutely destroyed Baylor and Oklahoma, who are both far better than anybody Alabama beat short of Arkansas. I can't say for sure they are better than Alabama, but I can't say for sure they aren't either. So I have to go on resumes, and theirs is clearly the better of the two.

 

Luckily, for ESPN, their promoting the Alabama/LSU National Title game last night because it serves their personal best interests helped keep Alabama high enough in all of the polls to play in this imaginary title game. Quite frankly, LSU should get a share of the title even if they lose. They would be 13-1 to Alabama's 12-1, have a 1-1 record against them (with the win on the road), and have a far better overall resume.

IMO the Big 12 is not better than the SEC. Most experts agree, just go by the eye test. Overrated Penn St? Who did Oklahoma St beat out of conference? And yes, their loss is WAY better. Sorry you lost to f***ing Iowa St, that's no one's fault but your own. The whole winning conference/division makes no difference to me, like I said earlier you would have had the same thing if LSU lost Saturday, and they still would have been in the title game. Plus, they had the 1/2/3 teams in the COUNTRY in the same division at one point. There's no way their resume is "clearly better", there's no way they clearly played a better schedule. Besides, if LSU is the #1 team, Alabama took them to overtime, to pretend they aren't even close to the #2 team is ignorant.

 

The bottom line is that if they never played each other during the regular season this wouldn't be an issue. Most people just want something different instead of the rematch, that's what is fueling the hate. That's fine to want something different, but to use that to say Oklahoma St is clearly better is weak.

Edited by IlliniKrush
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On a different note,

 

AT&T Park would be an AWESOME place to watch an illini bowl game. Too bad no one in their right mind is going to drop that dough on airfare to watch a horribly disappointing team play another bad team.

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QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 07:28 AM)
IMO the Big 12 is not better than the SEC. Most experts agree, just go by the eye test. Overrated Penn St? Who did Oklahoma St beat out of conference? And yes, their loss is WAY better. Sorry you lost to f***ing Iowa St, that's no one's fault but your own. The whole winning conference/division makes no difference to me, like I said earlier you would have had the same thing if LSU lost Saturday, and they still would have been in the title game. Plus, they had the 1/2/3 teams in the COUNTRY in the same division at one point. There's no way their resume is "clearly better", there's no way they clearly played a better schedule. Besides, if LSU is the #1 team, Alabama took them to overtime, to pretend they aren't even close to the #2 team is ignorant.

 

The bottom line is that if they never played each other during the regular season this wouldn't be an issue. Most people just want something different instead of the rematch, that's what is fueling the hate. That's fine to want something different, but to use that to say Oklahoma St is clearly better is weak.

What's fueling my hate is that this is college football where "every game counts" and November 5th apparently didn't mean a damn thing. When there's no playoff system there should be no rematches in the National Championship especially when the losing team lost that game at home. And I actually enjoyed the first game, I couldn't care less if there wasn't a touchdown but the BCS is completely ruining college football for me, I love college sports but the fact that this f***in monstrosity is allowed to decide a National Champion is f***in garbage. And to be honest Kenny, I really don't know if I will watch the game, I just couldn't care less. I'll watch Ok State-Stanford and Oregon-Wisconsin, the rest of the BCS games are a complete snooze fest for me, just don't care.

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QUOTE (SnB @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:14 AM)
On a different note,

 

AT&T Park would be an AWESOME place to watch an illini bowl game. Too bad no one in their right mind is going to drop that dough on airfare to watch a horribly disappointing team play another bad team.

Has there ever been a bowl game where the two teams have a combined losing record?

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"every game counts" and November 5th apparently didn't mean a damn thing.

 

 

I could buy that if Alabama had retained the number 2 BCS spot over OSU after the loss to LSU. But Alabama fell back and OSU had their chance in this "tournament".

 

So you think OSU should retain their #2 ranking after a loss to Iowa St? Who else can make an argument for that second spot since losses shouldnt count unless its in a rematch situation?

 

Stanford who got worked at home against Oregon

Oregon who got smoked by LSU and lost to USC

Boise?

 

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QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 10:48 PM)
This was the last straw, I'm done with college football. I'll miss bowl season but this BCS thing has totally spiraled out of control.

 

How has it spiraled out of control? Both Stanford and OK State had an opportunity to be there and controlled their own destiny and didn't get it done. This is NOT the first time we've had a team that didn't win their conference in the BCS title game so I don't understand why everyone views this as a new deal.

 

Why not go back to the old way then where conferences are tied to bowls and the best two teams wouldn't play each other? That way we would have LSU playing in the Sugar, OK State playing in the Orange and Alabama playing in who knows what bowl.

Edited by Rex Hudler
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My two cents:

 

The SEC is a better conference than the Big 12 (minus two), but Alabama didn't have to play two of the better teams in the SEC in Georgia and South Carolina. Yet Alabama seems to be getting credit for having these teams in their conference.

 

If you go by the BCS standings, OSU's best wins were against #8 KSU, #12 Baylor, and #14 Oklahoma. Alabama's best wins were against #6 Arkansas, #22 Penn State, and #24 Auburn. Yes, Alabama's second best win is against Penn State. South Carolina has beaten two teams better than Penn State. I'd rather see them play LSU before I'd want to see another LSU-Alabama game.

 

Yes, OSU's loss is worse because it was to a 6-6 team, but it was on the road in overtime less than 24 hours after the tragic death of two OSU basketball coaches.

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 10:24 PM)
I would have rather seen OSU v LSU. Maybe OSU gets smoked, but at least its something different.

 

Personally, so would I. But I don't understand the outrage from everyone (not you specifically). There have always been times in which I would have rather seen a different matchup, whether for the championship or a major bowl. To me OK State would have made for a more intriguing matchup, yet produced a very similar result to most of LSU's other games, a roughly three touchdown win. While I am against rematches in general, I have zero doubt the best two teams are playing. Personally, I think they should just give the title to LSU and forget Jan. 9. LSU has done everything it is supposed to do.

 

Nothing happened this year than has any other year. In fact it was quite predictable. The only reason it was close is because OK State played very well Saturday night against a team perceived to be a top team (though I am not so sure) and it made people think twice. OK State was 5th in the coaches poll and Harris poll last week. And everyone wants them to jump all the way to #2? Hell Stanford should be pissed they got jumped (yes I know it didn't affect their bowl game). At what point in the history of bowl games and polls, does the #5 team jump the #2 and #4 teams without either of them having lost? I can't remember any.

Edited by Rex Hudler
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QUOTE (danman31 @ Dec 4, 2011 -> 10:36 PM)
What one touchdown is too much to ask? The last game didn't have one freaking touchdown! Not one! That's like a 1-0 baseball game going 10 innings.

 

Jack Morris outdueling John Smoltz 1-0 in 10 innings in the World Series was one of the best baseball games ever! I thought you were a baseball guy, c'mon!

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 02:41 AM)
Oklahoma State played a better schedule in a better conference and has better wins. The only tangible argument for Alabama is their loss is better, but their loss is to a team they don't deserve a rematch with anyway. Alabama didn't win (or tie) for their conference, they didn't win (or tie) for their division. To have them in the national championship game is hilariously stupid.

And I'm tired of people saying "Alabama is the second best team". How do we know? Because they played well against Arkansas at home and won at an overrated Penn State outfit? Oklahoma State absolutely destroyed Baylor and Oklahoma, who are both far better than anybody Alabama beat short of Arkansas. I can't say for sure they are better than Alabama, but I can't say for sure they aren't either. So I have to go on resumes, and theirs is clearly the better of the two.

 

Luckily, for ESPN, their promoting the Alabama/LSU National Title game last night because it serves their personal best interests helped keep Alabama high enough in all of the polls to play in this imaginary title game. Quite frankly, LSU should get a share of the title even if they lose. They would be 13-1 to Alabama's 12-1, have a 1-1 record against them (with the win on the road), and have a far better overall resume.

 

The whole Alabama didn't win their conference or even their division argument is stupid. Twice teams have made it to the BCS title game before this without winning their conference. If you are going to stick with that argument and we ultimately get a playoff, I sure as hell hope you will be for a plan of conference champions only and no wild card or at-large bids. Many years ago only the conference champion in basketball got to go to the NCAA Tournament. Everyone else had to go to the NIT or stay home. I don't see anyone supporting that anymore.

 

Until the rules are changed, it is what it is. Everyone is acting as if this is a big shock or major travesty, when what happened this year is basically the same thing that has ALWAYS happened.

 

All that said, I do understand why there is so much angst. And I agree with the basic premise of your final point. If Alabama wins, especially in a tight game, did we really solve anything? It would be a tough pill to swallow. But the other teams had their chances and didn't get it done.

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:15 AM)
What's fueling my hate is that this is college football where "every game counts" and November 5th apparently didn't mean a damn thing. When there's no playoff system there should be no rematches in the National Championship especially when the losing team lost that game at home. And I actually enjoyed the first game, I couldn't care less if there wasn't a touchdown but the BCS is completely ruining college football for me, I love college sports but the fact that this f***in monstrosity is allowed to decide a National Champion is f***in garbage. And to be honest Kenny, I really don't know if I will watch the game, I just couldn't care less. I'll watch Ok State-Stanford and Oregon-Wisconsin, the rest of the BCS games are a complete snooze fest for me, just don't care.

 

I would submit to you that November 5th very much did count. If that game was not as tightly contested and go to OT, none of this discussion would be had at this point. The fact that the two teams played as closely as they did created the possibility of the rematch, along with others losses of course.

 

If that game finished 20-6, we'd be seeing OK St. So the result of that game has very much shaped how this has all played out. Especially since some feel Alabama outplayed LSU in the game and a few missed opportunities cost them.

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QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:15 AM)
What's fueling my hate is that this is college football where "every game counts" and November 5th apparently didn't mean a damn thing. When there's no playoff system there should be no rematches in the National Championship especially when the losing team lost that game at home. And I actually enjoyed the first game, I couldn't care less if there wasn't a touchdown but the BCS is completely ruining college football for me, I love college sports but the fact that this f***in monstrosity is allowed to decide a National Champion is f***in garbage. And to be honest Kenny, I really don't know if I will watch the game, I just couldn't care less. I'll watch Ok State-Stanford and Oregon-Wisconsin, the rest of the BCS games are a complete snooze fest for me, just don't care.

 

That's where I am at. We already played this game. I doubt I am watching either.

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QUOTE (Rex Hudler @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 03:57 PM)
But the other teams had their chances and didn't get it done.

 

That just makes it sounds like OSU/Stanford had to be undefeated to 'get it done', yet Alabama doesn't. The fact of the matter is that this year (like many years), there are multiple teams with legit claims to that title shot and only one gets that chance.

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I don't think that a team should be automatically disqualified from the NC game due to not winning its division/conference, but I do think it's fair to use it as a factor when considering teams that are very close otherwise, such as OSU and Alabama.

 

If the choices were Alabama and Oregon, I would take Alabama because they have a better record and higher computer ranking even though Oregon won its conference. But the choices are Alabama and OSU, and in that case I would give OSU the edge due to being a conference champion.

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To be fair, the reason Texas looks like not a quality win anymore is because they are on like their 5th runningback on a team that was designed around their running backs. I think it's bulls***. I think the writers decided that this should be the matchup and didn't budge. I'm sick of teams being rewarded for not making their conference championship game. It's absolute horses***.

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I recognize that the SEC is the best conference, at least at the top...but jeesh, I miss the SEC with the high flying Florida teams and a Tennessee team and an LSU team that can move the ball up and down the field.

 

I don't think anyone really doesn't believe that the SEC defenses are the best in the country, but their offenses are lackluster at best, if not pathetic, and it's just not even entertaining to watch.

 

 

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 06:08 PM)
I recognize that the SEC is the best conference, at least at the top...but jeesh, I miss the SEC with the high flying Florida teams and a Tennessee team and an LSU team that can move the ball up and down the field.

 

I don't think anyone really doesn't believe that the SEC defenses are the best in the country, but their offenses are lackluster at best, if not pathetic, and it's just not even entertaining to watch.

 

You know what I think is what's pissing me off. It doesn't have to do with Big 12 bias, obviously. But as a fan of a school very similar to oklahoma state in prestige, it really sucks that when you have that amazing season, that 1-in-100 season, you get beat out by Alabama after just beating a #10 team on the last week of the season and Alabama has lost to the #1 team already, didn't win their division, and didn't play that week. It's a vicious cycle that when these schools do build up a great team, they have to also fight against the bias of writers sticking with what they know.

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QUOTE (zenryan @ Dec 5, 2011 -> 08:15 AM)
If you want to say the Penn St win is overrated then the same can easily be said for OSU wins against Kansas St, Texas and TAMU.

Who rates Texas and ATM as good teams anymore?

 

Anyway, the reason why Ok State should be in is because under this system we only have one game to determine the champion. After the regular season there is one game to prove who the best was. LSU already has a solid claim that it's better than Bama. They won in Bama. If Bama doesn't get in, they can't complain because they had their shot against No. 1. Ultimately I think Bama keeps the game closer than Ok State would, but just because they are a better match up for that style. If Bama wins, we don't have a clear national champ and that's a big problem. If Ok State and LSU play there is no controversy.

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There are 10 available BCS slots. Six go automatically to the champions of the six BCS conferences. Two more automatically went to Alabama and Stanford for finishing in the top 4. That left two slots where the bowls could actually pick from among eligible teams.

 

The Sugar Bowl ended up with both of those picks and took #11 Virginia Tech and #13 Michigan. #6 Arkansas and #9 South Carolina were ineligible due to the SEC already having two BCS teams. Eligible teams passed over were #7 Boise State, #8 Kansas State, #12 Baylor, and #14 Oklahoma. I'm not in any way a fan of the Big 12 (minus 2) but they really got doubly screwed over by the BCS this year by not getting OSU into the championship game and by not getting a team ranked #8 into any BCS game.

 

Just as a matter of principle, I'm going to make it a point to watch Boise State and Kansas State's bowl games and not the Sugar Bowl. First of all because the Sugar Bowl didn't pick the most-deserving teams and secondly because Virginia Tech really blows and will probably lose by 20+ points.

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