2011-12 White Sox off season catch all thread

[Balta1701]

Even Balta has seen the light.

Doesn't mean I think that it's the right path for the Sox, but it's the path we committed to when we moved Sergio, and there's no bigger mistake than doing it half way.

[southsider2k5]

Really? And selling off that 1b with the funny sounding name for players a couple years later had nothing to do with it? And their 5 years of struggling ahd nothing to do with them being able to build up that talent level?

 

And not trading Michael Young? Not even that but signing him to a huge extension?

[Milkman delivers]

Ozzie's gone, that's supposed to be good. Walker's gone, everyone should hit .300. Buehrle gone without an offer...........great move by your standards, horrible by mine. Ventura never managed before? So what. Didn't Brenly win the WS the first season he ever managed? Will Robin be splitting the atom or something in the dugout? Do you think during the 15 years or so he played, he paid no attention? Its not like he has to install a new offense or defense. Its baseball. If it all requires years of experience at the major league level, none of us should have anything to say.

 

This is not the hardest division to win. Mistakes were made. The two glaring mistakes costing the Sox about $26 million a year are going to be around for a while. I'm slightly optimistic with Peavy, not as optimistic as JR, but certainly feel unless he gets hurt again, he will be better. Sale will probably be good if he remains healthy, but in no way is he going to be able to match Buehrle's innings. We have a guy who can't pick players who have proven they can play making decisions. To let him chose guys who haven't proved anything yet could mean this team will be awful for at least 5 years. Where does attendance go then? If then guys can play, they have to get paid, no one is coming to the park and to think they will suddenly hop back to 2 million fans after 4,5,6 years of being totally irrelavant is beyond silly, the Sox won't be able to pay those players, so guess what, more prospects. Face it, the Sox 2008 first round pick was in the major leagues in 2009 and in 2010 you were already calling him a bust. You don't have patience for rebuilding.

 

I think you literally named every worst-case scenario.

[kapzk]

Huge news, one of the leagues top slugger, Ryan Braun tested posted for PEDs.

[iamshack]

Huge news, one of the leagues top slugger, Ryan Braun tested posted for PEDs.

Check the Diamond Club.

[Eminor3rd]

Guys, the AL central sucks. The Tigers played way over their heads all year. The Royals are starting to become a mild threat, nothing more at this point until they get some real pitching. We could win the division any year, literally. With the exception of a good run by the Twins, the AL Central has been won by whichever mediocre team had a the hottest season in practically any given year.

 

Let's make good long-term moves and see what happens. We need a farm system.

[caulfield12]

And the Tigers essentially had the 3 best players in the division, with Verlander, Cabrera and an unbeatable closer in Valverde for the entire year.

 

Their bullpen can't be that good again at the back end. In fact, their middle relief was a sore spot all season long.

 

After Verlander and Scherzer, they don't have anyone who really scares you pitching-wise, either. If Jacob Turner becomes a star, though, we might have some problems.

[hogan873]

With Buehrle getting a 4 year/$58 million contract (which I personally think is a bit of an overpay, especially considering the 4th year), what does that mean for John Danks? He's younger and has shown flashes of brilliance and has demonstrated some toughness. Before the Buehrle contract, I was thinking the Sox might have had a slim chance to sign Danks to an extension, but now I'm thinking he could be looking at $15-$17 million per for 4+ years. I certainly don't see the Sox even offering anything like that (if they offer anything). But what would SoxTalk nation think if Danks was signed to an extension for $15 million a year?

[cabiness42]

With Buehrle getting a 4 year/$58 million contract (which I personally think is a bit of an overpay, especially considering the 4th year), what does that mean for John Danks? He's younger and has shown flashes of brilliance and has demonstrated some toughness. Before the Buehrle contract, I was thinking the Sox might have had a slim chance to sign Danks to an extension, but now I'm thinking he could be looking at $15-$17 million per for 4+ years. I certainly don't see the Sox even offering anything like that (if they offer anything). But what would SoxTalk nation think if Danks was signed to an extension for $15 million a year?

 

I wouldn't give him 4/60 right now since 2012 is still an arb year and he only figures to make $8-9M, but I'd give him 4/55.

 

[southsider2k5]

With Buehrle getting a 4 year/$58 million contract (which I personally think is a bit of an overpay, especially considering the 4th year), what does that mean for John Danks? He's younger and has shown flashes of brilliance and has demonstrated some toughness. Before the Buehrle contract, I was thinking the Sox might have had a slim chance to sign Danks to an extension, but now I'm thinking he could be looking at $15-$17 million per for 4+ years. I certainly don't see the Sox even offering anything like that (if they offer anything). But what would SoxTalk nation think if Danks was signed to an extension for $15 million a year?

 

Danks could be a $100m pitcher on the open market. With his injury history 6-7 years isn't out of the question at all.

[Balta1701]

Danks could be a $100m pitcher on the open market. With his injury history 6-7 years isn't out of the question at all.

He's not a $100 million pitcher after last year...but he could still pitch himself into a $100 million contract this year if he has a year like we think he's capable of.

[southsider2k5]

He's not a $100 million pitcher after last year...but he could still pitch himself into a $100 million contract this year if he has a year like we think he's capable of.

 

He's not a hundred million dollar pitcher. Doesn't mean he couldn't get that big of a deal.

[hogan873]

It's frustrating that such a bad 2011 has lead to this. Who knows what would have happened with Buehrle, and maybe the Sox and Danks would have been better suited for a long-term deal. I just have a bad feeling that three years from now Danks is going to be a #1 starter for some team, winning 17-19 games a season with a nice ERA, and we'll be saying, "Remember when..."

 

Every day that goes by without any news or even rumors is depressing. I know it's early, but I really want to see a few guys moved and some good prospects in return. As of right now, all we're hearing is that it is a rebuild and then it's not a rebuild. Something needs to happen soon.

[Balta1701]

It's frustrating that such a bad 2011 has lead to this. Who knows what would have happened with Buehrle, and maybe the Sox and Danks would have been better suited for a long-term deal. I just have a bad feeling that three years from now Danks is going to be a #1 starter for some team, winning 17-19 games a season with a nice ERA, and we'll be saying, "Remember when..."

 

Every day that goes by without any news or even rumors is depressing. I know it's early, but I really want to see a few guys moved and some good prospects in return. As of right now, all we're hearing is that it is a rebuild and then it's not a rebuild. Something needs to happen soon.

If Danks leaves and becomes a #1 starter with another team, that's really an indictment of Cooper, since he's just been flat out unable to develop the consistency he needs here.

[DirtySox]

Anyone catch the shot at Peavy in Gonzales' recent Tribune piece discussing the marketing efforts?

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,1788782.story

 

The reason stems largely from a collection of underachieving performances that resulted in the Sox's third consecutive non-playoff season and a shortfall of 500,000 in projected 2011 home attendance that was needed to support a $127 million payroll.

 

Therefore, if any veteran requests a trade, it would behoove him to play to the level Williams, the organization and the fans anticipated last season, instead of staying in the abyss of mediocrity that put the Sox in this back-of-the-class situation.

 

Awesome. Oh how I despise you Jake Peavy.

 

[thehugeunit]

And the Tigers essentially had the 3 best players in the division, with Verlander, Cabrera and an unbeatable closer in Valverde for the entire year.

DUDE. Mauer, Masterson, Kipnis, Butler and tons of the Royals other young studs are better than Valverde. This guy is so overrated it blows my mind. The only stat he's good at is the Rippings your shirt out of your pants at the end of the game stat.

[Jordan4life_2007]

DUDE. Mauer, Masterson, Kipnis, Butler and tons of the Royals other young studs are better than Valverde. This guy is so overrated it blows my mind. The only stat he's good at is the Rippings your shirt out of your pants at the end of the game stat.

 

Well, he did say "had" the three best players in the division.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Jordan4life

[thehugeunit]

Well, he did say "had" the three best players in the division.

Oh my bad still Butler had a good season last year and didn't Alex Gordon as well? I'm not too certain about Gordon tho.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Oh my bad still Butler had a good season last year and didn't Alex Gordon as well? I'm not too certain about Gordon tho.

 

I think he just meant as far as '11 impact goes, the Tigers had the three best players in the division. I don't have a problem with that.

[caulfield12]

Yep, that's exactly what I meant.

 

Not sure how long Valverde's house of mirrors can stand without cracking into pieces, probably as long as Fernando Rodney out in Anaheim.

[nickofypres]

Guys, the AL central sucks. The Tigers played way over their heads all year. The Royals are starting to become a mild threat, nothing more at this point until they get some real pitching. We could win the division any year, literally. With the exception of a good run by the Twins, the AL Central has been won by whichever mediocre team had a the hottest season in practically any given year.

 

Let's make good long-term moves and see what happens. We need a farm system.

 

True that. Tigers had a lot go for them, and that isn't a knock, things usually have to go right for you to win a division.

 

Verlander had a cy young season (He's a stud anyways though)

Perfect closer

Aliva had a monster rookie season

Delmon Young and Wilson Betimit seemed to be on fire once they got to Detroit.

 

They do have a lot going for them though. Verlander and Fister is a great 1-2, they have a great middle of the order with Cabrera and Martinez and their pen is pretty good. But we have to see if Austin Jackson returns to form, can Avilia avoid sophmore slump, can Sherzer and Porcello rebound?

 

They're the favorite to win the division again I'm sure, and they've earned that, but I can't see them being a 95 win team again. I can see them winning maybe 88? But in the AL Central, maybe that is all it will take?

[caulfield12]

True that. Tigers had a lot go for them, and that isn't a knock, things usually have to go right for you to win a division.

 

Verlander had a cy young season (He's a stud anyways though)

Perfect closer

Aliva had a monster rookie season

Delmon Young and Wilson Betimit seemed to be on fire once they got to Detroit.

 

They do have a lot going for them though. Verlander and Fister is a great 1-2, they have a great middle of the order with Cabrera and Martinez and their pen is pretty good. But we have to see if Austin Jackson returns to form, can Avilia avoid sophmore slump, can Sherzer and Porcello rebound?

 

They're the favorite to win the division again I'm sure, and they've earned that, but I can't see them being a 95 win team again. I can see them winning maybe 88? But in the AL Central, maybe that is all it will take?

 

 

DET fans would argue that really Scherzer and Porcello should be their 2/3 guys with Fister 4th and Penny/Jacob Turner 5th.

 

Avila...although "Aliva" might be a more appropriate name for when he hits against us. His father is also DET's Assistant GM, and he wasn't even drafted so highly.

 

Their biggest weakness, to me, remains their middle relievers.

Edited December 13, 2011 by caulfield12

[fathom]

DET fans would argue that really Scherzer and Porcello should be their 2/3 guys with Fister 4th and Penny/Jacob Turner 5th.

 

Avila...although "Aliva" might be a more appropriate name for when he hits against us. His father is also DET's Assistant GM, and he wasn't even drafted so highly.

 

Their biggest weakness, to me, remains their middle relievers.

 

Tigers bullpen so far is Dotel, Benoit, Al Al, Coke and Valverde. That's pretty damn good.

[caulfield12]

Tigers bullpen so far is Dotel, Benoit, Al Al, Coke and Valverde. That's pretty damn good.

 

Ryan Perry was supposed to be the "bee's knees" and he totally flamed out to the point they had to trade him.

 

Zumaya imploded.

 

I would be shocked if 2-3 of those relievers didn't regress to their normal means. They seriously overachieved last year, particularly Valverde and Albuquerque.

 

Dotel scared me when he pitched the 7th/8th for the Sox three or four seasons ago.

 

They do have a ton of interchangeable parts on that roster, kids who can play all the OF positions and/or infield positions.

 

 

 

Lineup Player POS Team AB R HR RBI SB AVG OBP SLG

1 Austin Jackson OF DET 600 89 9 54 26 0.258 0.326 0.383

2 Brennan Boesch OF DET 475 72 17 61 6 0.274 0.338 0.446

3 Delmon Young OF DET 520 70 15 78 3 0.285 0.324 0.431

4 Miguel Cabrera 1B DET 560 114 32 119 3 0.330 0.432 0.580

5 Victor Martinez DH DET 515 79 14 81 1 0.307 0.366 0.456

6 Alex Avila C DET 445 68 17 66 3 0.265 0.369 0.458

7 Jhonny Peralta SS DET 540 69 18 75 1 0.270 0.330 0.433

8 Ryan Raburn OF DET 420 49 16 56 2 0.248 0.301 0.429

9 Brandon Inge 3B DET 410 45 9 44 2 0.220 0.297 0.341

 

 

The obvious weakness is 3B, with Inge's seemingly half-decade long offensive struggles.

 

I still don't know what the Twins gave Delmon Young to one of their two main division rivals...especially with Ordonez coming off the books, along with Carlos Guillen.

 

Peralta played way over his head offensively last year, but Jackson/Boesch/Raburn all underachieved, so their offense definitely has the potential to be even better, which is a scary proposition.

 

 

[iamshack]

I don't really see anyone unseating them next year, but much stranger things have happened.

 

Tebow knows that we've had the best team on paper plenty of years and have come up empty.