Ozzie Fires Back

[southsider2k5]

I think it's news that Guillen went on record about his feeling about Cooper. I'd rather know information from one side than no information at all. I think I'm intelligent enough to understand Guillen has an agenda and can take that into account when reading about this.

 

Then why isn't Joe asking the next logical questions?

[Greyone]

So to recap the questions that the truthsayer didn't ask...

 

-If Cooper is a backstabber for being back with the Sox, what does that make Harold Baines?

 

-If loyalty is so important, why didn't Ozzie take Greg Walker and Jeff Cox with him?

 

-If Cooper is Kenny Williams' b**** for telling Kenny what is going on in the locker room, what does that make Joe for telling the general public Ozzie's version of what is going on in the locker room?

 

-What happened to the promise about not writing about Guillen for three weeks?

 

-The Sox had Guillen under contract for 2012 because he asked for, and received, the exercise of his option last year. When you factor in that guys like Joe Torre and Tony LaRussa have managed on to the last year of their deal multiple times, what makes Ozzie think he is more deserving of a deal than guys who will be Hall of Fame managers?

 

-If Kenny Williams is "Hollywood" for a very short cameo on a Chicago themed tv show, what does it make Ozzie Guillen for going on to things like Fox and ESPN for TV coverage, not to mention the facebook account, the twitter account, and the webpages? Why doesn't Joe call out someone like AJ for going on TV and even on wrestling shows?

 

-If Don Cooper is wrong for going over Ozzie's head to go to Kenny for an extension when he doesn't have a contract for 2012, why isn't it wrong for Ozzie to go over Kenny's head to Jerry Reinsdorf, when he already has a deal for 2012?

 

Am I missing anything that any objective columnist would have asked Ozzie at some point?

 

 

A Cyborg. Baines is going to look the same and act the same for well over 100 years, when everybody else is gone from this Earth.

 

Because they cost him his job, nobody wants Cox, and Walker bleeds black and white.

 

Megab****.

 

He just couldn't sit on this amazing story, somebody else (either from there basement or wherever) could have gotten it out before him.

 

Well, they have the stones to actually try and win under pressure. Don't you know winning is hard and he can only do that when he has a guarantee contract for three or four years.

 

Ozzie "the truth sayer" Guillen, Oz speaks the truth, the only truth and nothing but the truth.

 

Oz is just looking out for his family man, his family gotta eat you know.

[southsider2k5]

Here's the thing...everyone knows that KW and Ozzie disliked each other. However, if Cowley wants to investigate the 2011 White Sox, I'd rather know about what issues haunted Dunn, etc. Was it due to Dunn's work ethic? Eating fried chicken and drinking beer between innings? No one cares anymore about the Ozzie/KW dynamic. That story died the second Venutra was hired and Theo to the Cubs gained steam.

 

And we all know the answer is that Ozzie hasn't told Joe that stuff...

[iamshack]

I find it sickening that Cooper isn't allowed to go over the head of his boss, but that's exactly what Ozzie did and it couldn't be more acceptable.

Honestly, what is Cooper supposed to do when you have Oney Guillen tweeting the play-by-play of what goes on behind the scenes?

 

Ozzie's comments about Cooper's family are a bit humorous, considering all the problems we had with Ozzie's family over the last two years.

 

If I was an employee of the White Sox, at least in one of the more public positions, I would certainly be concerned about Ozzie and his disgruntled son, and by extension, his lackey at the Sun-Times.

[greg775]

Again, don't understand the Cowley hatred. Would you prefer him not to report what Guillen thinks of Cooper or Williams?

 

Cowley's reports are one-sided, but KW and Jerry won't talk to him, so hey, he gets to fire away with one side of the story.

I can't believe people aren't a bit concerned about Coop after it was alleged he was a rat and snitch. Who's gonna want to pitch for him if that's true?

[southsider2k5]

Cowley's reports are one-sided, but KW and Jerry won't talk to him, so hey, he gets to fire away with one side of the story.

I can't believe people aren't a bit concerned about Coop after it was alleged he was a rat and snitch. Who's gonna want to pitch for him if that's true?

 

I can't believe you won't question an obviously one sided story.

[LittleHurt05]

Cowley's reports are one-sided, but KW and Jerry won't talk to him, so hey, he gets to fire away with one side of the story.

I can't believe people aren't a bit concerned about Coop after it was alleged he was a rat and snitch. Who's gonna want to pitch for him if that's true?

 

What are we, in high school? "The Chicago White Sox were unable to sign a single FA pitcher because their pitching coach has been deemed a tattletale."

[Harry Chappas]

Cowley's reports are one-sided, but KW and Jerry won't talk to him, so hey, he gets to fire away with one side of the story.

I can't believe people aren't a bit concerned about Coop after it was alleged he was a rat and snitch. Who's gonna want to pitch for him if that's true?

 

What did he rat and snitch on exactly?

 

 

[Marty34]

What did he rat and snitch on exactly?

 

The story is that Guillen and at least some coaches did not trust Cooper.

 

[RockRaines]

Coaches that left: Cora, Cox, Walker

 

Coaches that stayed and weren't f***ed over by Coop:

 

3 Harold Baines First Base Coach

36 Juan Nieves Bullpen Coach

59 Mark Salas Bullpen Catcher

Buddy Bell Director of Player Personnel

Alex Cosmidis Scout

Nick Capra Field Director

Daryl Boston Coordinator, Defensive

Kirk Champion Coordinator, Pitching

Curt Hasler Coordinator, Pitching

Jeff Manto Coordinator, Hitting

Ron Oester Coordinator, Defensive

John Orton Coordinator, Catching

Scott Takao Rehab Coordinator

Dale Torborg Conditioning Coordinator

Manny Trillo Coordinator, Baserunning

Devon White Coordinator, Baserunning

[Harry Chappas]

The story is that Guillen and at least some coaches did not trust Cooper.

 

I kind of get that but trust him with what exactly? What role did Cooper have in anything they did. He worked and prepared pitchers.

 

They are all paid to do their jobs....did Cooper get wind of the conspiracy to throw games ala Shoeless Joe...... Cox is a replaceable body like Baines was. Walker was responsible for hitting and we saw how that worked. guillen and cora were paid to win and get the most out of the team....that did not happen either.

 

I still am not certain what ratting and snitching could be happening in a MLB clubhouse that Don Cooper would know about.

 

My whole summation of this ordeal is that in the middle of the season Cooper asked for a contract extension and KW knew he a coach he could not afford to lose and he extended him. He actually had leverage. The remainign clown car cast down in that dugout had no leg to stand on.

 

Was Cooper supposed to go down with that ship?

 

Cooper wanted to stay in Chicago and he is. He owed nothing to that coaching staff which made his life hell with their overall ineptness (Cora & Walker) and unprofessional approach (guillen).

 

Kudos Mr. Copper. Now do what you do so well, 'fix em'

 

Also I love that the Sox employ Ron Oester. I love 1980's baseball.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Harry Chappas

[Quin]

9,000 comments better than this one?

“Since last year, this was about integrity, it was about loyalty, it was about do they want me here. Let me say it my way: The Sox were saying, ‘Yes, we want to f--- you, but we don’t want to marry you.’ ’’

 

I doubt that.

 

Of course you do, you think Ozzie is an infallible god.

 

Also, the joke appeared to go over your head.

 

Again, don't understand the Cowley hatred. Would you prefer him not to report what Guillen thinks of Cooper or Williams?

 

Probably because he's a hack journalist who has recycled the same story for over a year now.

 

Here's the thing...everyone knows that KW and Ozzie disliked each other. However, if Cowley wants to investigate the 2011 White Sox, I'd rather know about what issues haunted Dunn, etc. Was it due to Dunn's work ethic? Eating fried chicken and drinking beer between innings? No one cares anymore about the Ozzie/KW dynamic. That story died the second Venutra was hired and Theo to the Cubs gained steam.

 

...real journalism?

 

Cowley's reports are one-sided, but KW and Jerry won't talk to him, so hey, he gets to fire away with one side of the story.

I can't believe people aren't a bit concerned about Coop after it was alleged he was a rat and snitch. Who's gonna want to pitch for him if that's true?

 

Who's going to want to play for a loudmouth jackass who quits on his team, a confirmed rat, won't work unless he has more money coming his way, has a barely above .500 record, elevates himself above the players, can't develop young players, puts players in a position to fail, and wants the entire f***ing spotlight on him 24-f***ing-7?

Edited October 18, 2011 by Quinarvy

[Iwritecode]

I kind of get that but trust him with what exactly?

 

I have yet to hear an answer for this.

[Marty34]

Who knows what they didn't trust him with? Maybe the coaches talked amongst themselves about what a terrible signing Dunn was and Coop told Kenny about it.

[Balta1701]

Who knows what they didn't trust him with? Maybe the coaches talked amongst themselves about what a terrible signing Dunn was and Coop told Kenny about it.

[TaylorStSox]

Why shouldn't KW know everything that goes on in the clubhouse? It's his f***in team. He's the boss. He put of together. If he wants to sit on Konerko's lap in the dugout for every game, he can. Spies? Get the f*** outta here. Ozzie thought he was bigger than the Chicago White Sox. f*** him.

[Kyyle23]

Who knows what they didn't trust him with? Maybe the coaches talked amongst themselves about what a terrible signing Dunn was and Coop told Kenny about it.

 

Oh, so Kenny didnt know that until Coop told him?

 

 

If you(not just you Marty, anyone. Ozzie, Cowley, etc) are going to label Coop a rat/snitch, lets talk here about what Coop actually said that could have affected Ozzie in any way. As far as we all know, Ozzie was welcome to come back and coach for his last year of the contract, and he didnt want to do that because he wanted guaranteed money. He spoke to JR about it(which was, in effect, going over his immediate boss to negotiate, which somehow seems ok here), and Jerry, from all accounts, told him he had to play out his final year. Ozzie didnt like that, and went ahead and greased the wheels for the move to Florida.

 

So how exactly does Coop become a rat/snitch here? What exactly could he have told kenny that would have made the above situation happen? What could Coop have possibly said worse than anything Ozzie or Oney have said or tweeted in the past two years? Its as if you think that Coop gave KW some revelation that Ozzie is a verbally irresponsible person and a mediocre manager. We all could see it. KW/Coop isnt the one running around spreading rumors about Ozzie stepping out on his wife, or stories about what happened in the clubhouse. then you add on top of that the Sox having barely .500 years the past 3 seasons, what the hell could coop have possible said or done that Ozzie hasnt said or done himself?

 

 

[Texsox]

Why shouldn't KW know everything that goes on in the clubhouse? It's his f***in team. He's the boss. He put of together. If he wants to sit on Konerko's lap in the dugout for every game, he can. Spies? Get the f*** outta here. Ozzie thought he was bigger than the Chicago White Sox. f*** him.

 

 

Moral? If you are trying to put together a close knit team that will support each other, it's tough if someone is whispering to the boss about little s***. If Kenny can't put together a team and then trust them, he f***ed up.

[Marty34]

Why shouldn't KW know everything that goes on in the clubhouse? It's his f***in team. He's the boss. He put of together. If he wants to sit on Konerko's lap in the dugout for every game, he can. Spies? Get the f*** outta here. Ozzie thought he was bigger than the Chicago White Sox. f*** him.

 

If Kenny wants to have a spy in the clubhouse that's his right. It does add to the dysfunction of it all though.

[Balta1701]

If Kenny wants to have a spy in the clubhouse that's his right. It does add to the dysfunction of it all though.

This is the general manager of the team. He spends Spring Training with them. He's turned over a table mid-season before. The General Manager being present should not add to dysfunction.

[chw42]

Cowley's reports are one-sided, but KW and Jerry won't talk to him, so hey, he gets to fire away with one side of the story.

I can't believe people aren't a bit concerned about Coop after it was alleged he was a rat and snitch. Who's gonna want to pitch for him if that's true?

 

Telling the GM what happens in the locker room doesn't make him a snitch. WTF is this now? Are we in the hood where we can't talk to the 5-O or something?

[Marty34]

Oh, so Kenny didnt know that until Coop told him?

 

 

If you(not just you Marty, anyone. Ozzie, Cowley, etc) are going to label Coop a rat/snitch, lets talk here about what Coop actually said that could have affected Ozzie in any way. As far as we all know, Ozzie was welcome to come back and coach for his last year of the contract, and he didnt want to do that because he wanted guaranteed money. He spoke to JR about it(which was, in effect, going over his immediate boss to negotiate, which somehow seems ok here), and Jerry, from all accounts, told him he had to play out his final year. Ozzie didnt like that, and went ahead and greased the wheels for the move to Florida.

 

So how exactly does Coop become a rat/snitch here? What exactly could he have told kenny that would have made the above situation happen? What could Coop have possibly said worse than anything Ozzie or Oney have said or tweeted in the past two years? Its as if you think that Coop gave KW some revelation that Ozzie is a verbally irresponsible person and a mediocre manager. We all could see it. KW/Coop isnt the one running around spreading rumors about Ozzie stepping out on his wife, or stories about what happened in the clubhouse. then you add on top of that the Sox having barely .500 years the past 3 seasons, what the hell could coop have possible said or done that Ozzie hasnt said or done himself?

 

I'm making no judgement here. As I said in a previous post, Kenny does have a right to have a spy in the clubhouse, but when things go in a dysfunctional way he has to be held somewhat accountable for it.

[chw42]

This is the general manager of the team. He spends Spring Training with them. He's turned over a table mid-season before. The General Manager being present should not add to dysfunction.

 

The GM deserves to know WTF is going on with his team too...

[Balta1701]

I'm making no judgement here. As I said in a previous post, Kenny does have a right to have a spy in the clubhouse, but when things go in a dysfunctional way he has to be held somewhat accountable for it.

And KW has now taken an action to resolve that problem...removing the single individual he judged to be most responsible for that dysfunction.

 

If everyone in an office hates one worker and can't get along with them, the boss doesn't fire himself or herself.

[TaylorStSox]

Moral? If you are trying to put together a close knit team that will support each other, it's tough if someone is whispering to the boss about little s***. If Kenny can't put together a team and then trust them, he f***ed up.

It's baseball. What could these guys have been doing that they didn't want Kenny to know about? I guess snitches weren't a big deal when Anderson was riding the bench for kicking the s*** out of a Guillen kid. None of that even matters. I'm going to side with the guys who's been nothing but loyal to the club and been pretty damn good at his job. That guy isn't Ozzie Guillen.