I'm not going to defend Flowers because quite frankly he's sucked this year, but it's only been a month and a half. You have to give him more time to make adjustments at the plate before you completely write him off, at least another month and hald and maybe even more depending how this season goes. I'm not saying he will, but once you write him off there is no going back with him.

 

Also, I'm shocked that some people here want a rebuild but can't even give a legit prospect with contact issues more than a month and a half to prove they're a major leaguer. This guy was once a top 100 prospect, has incredible physical tools, and put up great offensive numbers in the minors (please look them up before saying otherwise). He's far from a perfect prospect, but very few are and they are not easy to attain. Unfortunately when you rebuild, most of the prospects you'll call up will have some issues just like Flowers does. You hope they can make adjustments at the major league and continue to develop, but more often than not these prospects will fail. I feel like people have let guys like Trout and Harper skew their reality, because most prospects go through growing pains and sometimes it takes year or two before you know what you truly have. On Soxtalk you get one and half months before you're officially issues the bust label.

That's absolute bulls***. The Sox have tried to sign FA's and been successful few times. They've even tried to overpay. (Hunter)

 

You guys look at every team as if they're equal, and they're not. One of the reason I liked KW was that he understood that he had to be unorthodox and aggressive to win here. It's not a coincidence that he's a Raiders fan. He had some Al Davis in him. Yeah, sometimes he took huge risks and struck out, but he always fielded a competitive team that was capable of making noise. He drafted low ceiling/high floor players to fill roster spots and tried to get impact players through trades. It didn't work out, but I get his philosophy and think it was a good one. All teams aren't created equal, and the Sox aren't an attractive organization. That's the reality. All things equal, free agents don't want to play on the south side.

Strongly disagree. Williams' approach was totally unsustainable. At some point, you are going to run out of prospects to trade and pick up veteran players with awful contracts. If you have the financial resources and can buy your way out of trouble like Boston or New York, that's fine, but obviously the sox are not. do not think for one minute that Kenny didn't realized that last summer when he decided to run away like a scared child and step down leaving Hahn to clean up his mess.

When Pierzynski signed with the Rangers, my Dad was extremely upset. I told him we need to give Flowers a chance. He responded with "Are you kidding, we are stuck with another Ron Karkovice" Moral of the story here is, my old man knows his baseball and I was wrong. Flowers is indeed crap. He would make a decent backup but he has proven to us that he is not a good every day catcher. His defense is well below average and he can't hit water if he jumped out of a boat.

 

The fact that we have two guys on our starting lineup hitting below .200 is an absolute joke! This team's current standing is a reflection of Hahn pretty much sitting on his hands this past winter.

 

 

Ron karkovice was a good defensive catcher, if Flowers would be that good I wouldn't complain

That's absolute bulls***. The Sox have tried to sign FA's and been successful few times. They've even tried to overpay. (Hunter)

 

You guys look at every team as if they're equal, and they're not. One of the reason I liked KW was that he understood that he had to be unorthodox and aggressive to win here. It's not a coincidence that he's a Raiders fan. He had some Al Davis in him. Yeah, sometimes he took huge risks and struck out, but he always fielded a competitive team that was capable of making noise. He drafted low ceiling/high floor players to fill roster spots and tried to get impact players through trades. It didn't work out, but I get his philosophy and think it was a good one. All teams aren't created equal, and the Sox aren't an attractive organization. That's the reality. All things equal, free agents don't want to play on the south side.

 

The Sox don't play at the top of the free agent market so there's no way of knowing whether this is true.

Strongly disagree. Williams' approach was totally unsustainable. At some point, you are going to run out of prospects to trade and pick up veteran players with awful contracts. If you have the financial resources and can buy your way out of trouble like Boston or New York, that's fine, but obviously the sox are not. do not think for one minute that Kenny didn't realized that last summer when he decided to run away like a scared child and step down leaving Hahn to clean up his mess.

+10000000000000000000000

 

 

I'm not one to say "I told you all so", but....

 

I obviously want Tyler to succeed, but just didn't see the point of letting AJ go after a career year. The "It was time" reasoning by some made no sense.

Flowers is a career backup and nothing more.

I'm not one to say "I told you all so", but....

 

I obviously want Tyler to succeed, but just didn't see the point of letting AJ go after a career year. The "It was time" reasoning by some made no sense.

 

You say this as AJ is currently sitting on the DL and has been hurt for most of this short season.

 

Tyler sure hasnt proved himself, but even if we kept AJ it looks like we would be looking at Tyler anyway

Strongly disagree. Williams' approach was totally unsustainable. At some point, you are going to run out of prospects to trade and pick up veteran players with awful contracts. If you have the financial resources and can buy your way out of trouble like Boston or New York, that's fine, but obviously the sox are not. do not think for one minute that Kenny didn't realized that last summer when he decided to run away like a scared child and step down leaving Hahn to clean up his mess.

 

BS. Had the Santos and Quentin trades went right we'd be able to acquire any bat on earth. Nestor Molina had absolutely ridiculous stats the year we acquired him. Looked like a KW steal. My point is that I think his strategy IS sustainable.

BS. Had the Santos and Quentin trades went right we'd be able to acquire any bat on earth. Nestor Molina had absolutely ridiculous stats the year we acquired him. Looked like a KW steal. My point is that I think his strategy IS sustainable.

His stats were ridiculous, but he wasn't considered a top prospect with Toronto. I do agree, his approach was sustainable. The White sox haven't produced a bat in almost a decade and they still were contending. If guys were just average offensively thus far this year, we would be talking about who they would be adding to make a run at Detroit. As long as you have some projectable arms, teams will dump payroll eventually and will take some lottery tickets in exchange for payroll relief.

His stats were ridiculous, but he wasn't considered a top prospect with Toronto. I do agree, his approach was sustainable. The White sox haven't produced a bat in almost a decade and they still were contending. If guys were just average offensively thus far this year, we would be talking about who they would be adding to make a run at Detroit. As long as you have some projectable arms, teams will dump payroll eventually and will take some lottery tickets in exchange for payroll relief.

 

 

The problem is we're more than one Edwin Jackson or bat away from competing in the Central still. We have four teams stacked up ahead of us...and that's 3 1/2 games ahead in the standings.

 

So let's not trade Erik Johnson unless someone who knows something about pitching (and not Buddy Bell) is 100% convinced he's not going to be the next Gio, Hudson or McCarthy.

Edited May 12, 201312 yr by caulfield12

It hurts sometimes to watch the futility of some of our players trying to do their best and failing. Yoiy kjnw they don't want to be bad but there it is for everyone to see. I have always believed that some players can be excellent in a specific role and when out of that comfort zone they can and often do fail. Tyler is better as a backup. But, as has been said before it's still early in the season so maybe he can turn it around. At this point what other choice do we have?

The problem is we're more than one Edwin Jackson or bat away from competing in the Central still. We have four teams stacked up ahead of us...and that's 3 1/2 games ahead in the standings.

 

So let's not trade Erik Johnson unless someone who knows something about pitching (and not Buddy Bell) is 100% convinced he's not going to be the next Gio, Hudson or McCarthy.

 

Holmberg's got an ERA under 2 at AA.

 

#cantletitgo

The problem is we're more than one Edwin Jackson or bat away from competing in the Central still. We have four teams stacked up ahead of us...and that's 3 1/2 games ahead in the standings.

 

So let's not trade Erik Johnson unless someone who knows something about pitching (and not Buddy Bell) is 100% convinced he's not going to be the next Gio, Hudson or McCarthy.

Contending this year should not even be a consideration at this point. You raise a good point regarding our lack of being good evaluators of talent and the idea of rebuilding through a fire sale. Simply put, other teams are much better at recognizing and developing young talent than the sox and yet we have this notion that we are going to restock our farm system with the garbage that we have. That Probably will not happen.

Holmberg's got an ERA under 2 at AA.

 

#cantletitgo

 

I was fine w/ trading Hudson then and now, but I hated losing Holmberg from the beginning.

Holmberg is still only in AA?

Holmberg is still only in AA?

 

He turns 22 in July.

 

He made 12 starts at High-A last year, then 15 starts at AA.

 

Maybe he gets moved up to AAA mid-season.

He turns 22 in July.

 

He made 12 starts at High-A last year, then 15 starts at AA.

 

Maybe he gets moved up to AAA mid-season.

I thought he was older. It seems like I've been hearing about him forever.

Holmberg's got an ERA under 2 at AA.

 

#cantletitgo

 

And Hudson hasn't given up an earned run in nearly 11 months.

He is soooooo terrible.

He is soooooo terrible.

 

It's really hard to imagine Phegley being worse defensively.

Wasn't Flowers supposed to be decent defensively? He looks like the JV catcher they had to put into the Varsity game due to injury.

Wasn't Flowers a 33rd round draft pick? Seems about right. He seems like a career backup if he's lucky/pinch hitter type (praying he might get lucky, make contact and elevate). Certainly he's shown the Sox front office nothing to make them want to start him again next season.

Edited June 12, 201312 yr by greg775

The only good thing about him is the price tag.

 

Which is why he's the starting catcher.

From Wikipedia. ....

On December 4, 2008, Tyler Flowers and fellow Braves prospects Brent Lillibridge, Jonathan Gilmore and Santos Rodriguez were traded to the Chicago White Sox for Javier Vázquez and Boone Logan.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Flowers#cite_note-2}

 

 

 

 

Well, Tyler is lousy; Lilly is (was) lousy. What's upwith Gilmore and Santos Rodriguez? This was one, nondescript trade.

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_Flowers#cite_note-2}