Jose Abreu Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:15 PM) Honestly it's foolhardy to make predictions on what will happen in the playoffs. Baseball is just so random anything could happen and I wouldn't be surprised. A team could win 115 games 5 straight seasons and never get out of the first round. On the other hand, a mediocre team could get hot and win it all due to some scrub playing over his head. The quality of the team means less in the baseball playoffs than in any other sport. You just have to get in. Well said. 2014 Royals are a good recent example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 03:13 AM) What is Robin's plan? Don't get me wrong, Maddon is a great manager. However, the media is so in love with him, it's ridiculous. Even saw some people giving him credit last week for him rejuvenating Castro's career by benching him. The ironic thing is Renteria was given a ton of credit last year for getting the most out of Castro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 03:17 AM) Well said. 2014 Royals are a good recent example. Hopefully Arrieta stops pitching like the best pitcher on the planet and isn't able to go all MadBum on the postseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:13 PM) God this we are so White Sox fans. What matters is the Cubs are in it and we are perpetually garbage. At the end of the day all that matters is WS titles and both franchises have been historically awful by that measure. It just so happens that the Cubs have been even more futile by this measure. How old are you? Do you even remember the 2005 championship? That was only 10 years ago. I'm sure your comeback will be what have they done the last 10 years blah blah blah but no Cubs fans have experienced a WS title in their lifetime so I will take 10 years all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:07 PM) Bottom line, NL = NBA Eastern Conference, AL = NBA Western Conference. I believe Sale would absolutely dominate in the NL and I have yet to see factual evidence provided in this thread that would change my mind. Sure you can call the statistics that I cited as insignificant due to sample size but what statistics do you have that would prove this small sample size should be completely disregarded? You can believe whatever you want, but you will have a hard time convincing many other people. You also haven't put out any strong arguments on why Sale would be 1 run better than he currently is. There are plenty of points listed out for you in this thread already, but you chose to ignore them, Someone already mentioned that batters will make adjustments to him as they face him more, I also mentioned that pitchers won't do that much better (maybe for a short stretch, but certainly not a fully season or across seasons) even if they switched leagues. Many times, they do slightly better or they could even do worst. See Shields and Scherzer as the latest example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:15 PM) Honestly it's foolhardy to make predictions on what will happen in the playoffs. Baseball is just so random anything could happen and I wouldn't be surprised. A team could win 115 games 5 straight seasons and never get out of the first round. On the other hand, a mediocre team could get hot and win it all due to some scrub playing over his head. The quality of the team means less in the baseball playoffs than in any other sport. You just have to get in. agreed but I would be willing to bet anyone the Cubs don't win the Series this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 If you're the Cubs do you try to extend Arrieta right now? At the rate he's going he's going to get a hefty sum in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:20 PM) At the end of the day all that matters is WS titles and both franchises have been historically awful by that measure. It just so happens that the Cubs have been even more futile by this measure. How old are you? Do you even remember the 2005 championship? That was only 10 years ago. I'm sure your comeback will be what have they done the last 10 years blah blah blah but no Cubs fans have experienced a WS title in their lifetime so I will take 10 years all day. I'm 30. I watched the World Series team just like you did. The organization celebrated by continually driving into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:20 PM) You can believe whatever you want, but you will have a hard time convincing many other people. You also haven't put out any strong arguments on why Sale would be 1 run better than he currently is. There are plenty of points listed out for you in this thread already, but you chose to ignore them, Someone already mentioned that batters will make adjustments to him as they face him more, I also mentioned that pitchers won't do that much better (maybe for a short stretch, but certainly not a fully season or across seasons) even if they switched leagues. Many times, they do slightly better or they could even do worst. See Shields and Scherzer as the latest example. It's really this simple to me. Sale is as good as Kershaw and Grienke in my opinion. So I would expect him to post similar numbers to those guys if he pitched in the NL. Put Sale on the Dodgers today and those are the numbers I would expect from him. Do you disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 09:22 PM) agreed but I would be willing to bet anyone the Cubs don't win the Series this year. I'd be willing to bet anyone that any particular team won't win it all, odds are always going to be in your favor if you take the field. This isn't the NBA where Golden State is getting favorable odds in Vegas to win a title at the beginning of the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:24 PM) I'm 30. I watched the World Series team just like you did. The organization celebrated by continually driving into the ground. I wouldn't trade 2005 to be a Cubs fan right now. The Cubs haven't won anything yet and the odds of them winning the Series are still against them. Cubs fans may never experience what I and other Sox fans experienced in 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 09:12 PM) Yep, the great Joe Maddon left Lester in to die last night, but he'll get credit for keeping them loose Bring back the blow up dolls, Nick Swisher and Jay Mariotti to keep the focus off the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:25 PM) I'd be willing to bet anyone that any particular team won't win it all, odds are always going to be in your favor if you take the field. This isn't the NBA where Golden State is getting favorable odds in Vegas to win a title at the beginning of the playoffs. I will give that person 10:1 odds as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:25 PM) I'd be willing to bet anyone that any particular team won't win it all, odds are always going to be in your favor if you take the field. This isn't the NBA where Golden State is getting favorable odds in Vegas to win a title at the beginning of the playoffs. I will give that person 10:1 odds as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:24 PM) It's really this simple to me. Sale is as good as Kershaw and Grienke in my opinion. So I would expect him to post similar numbers to those guys if he pitched in the NL. Put Sale on the Dodgers today and those are the numbers I would expect from him. Do you disagree? Yes, on the grounds that Sale isn't Kershaw. Everyone who isn't a Sox fan will tell you the same. Sale is better than Greinke historically. Greinke is having an extremely lucky season. Put Sale's number at slightly better than Zack's number last year, 2.30 -2.40 ERA, sure. That would make it half a run better than Chris's career ERA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Already have Cubs fan friends saying on FB that Arrieta pitched the best game since Kerry Wood's 20 Ks. I...I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 09:24 PM) I'm 30. I watched the World Series team just like you did. The organization celebrated by continually driving into the ground. They did win 90 games the season following the World Series, and that's enough to get into the post-season more often than not these days...so you had the anomalies of the Twins/Tigers both being better in one season (same as the NL Central this year). They got to the playoffs in 2008, and made strong/competitive runs in 2010 and 2012, as well as adding Peavy/Rios/Beckham/Quentin/Floyd/Danks/Alexei Ramirez/Viciedo. Unfortunately, it didn't work out...but it's not like they immediately collapsed. If anything, they held onto the veteran core pieces for too long instead of starting the rebuilding in 2007-09 instead of pushing it all the way back to 2012/2013, essentially. It was more faded into obscurity...rather than being driven into the ground. Bringing in Thome, Mackowiak and Javy V. seemed like solid moves at the time. Of course, their FA moves this off-season were applauded by many as well, and we all know how that worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (daa84 @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 09:53 PM) the Scott Feldman trade has to be one of the worst in the last 20 years. Also didn't realize arrieta is 29 I wouldn't say it's anywhere close to the worst of the last 20 years. Think Liriano, Nathan and Bonser for AJ Pierzynski, for one. Padres have made a few historically bad deals too just this year. But regardless, these are the type of one-sided trades we've been missing with this organization. We need the type of trade that sets us forwars without giving up much. Yes i know everyone is looking for that -- but we need that ONE big franchise changing trade if we're thinking of improving this offense beyond FA or the draft. Edited August 31, 2015 by Flash Tizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 31, 2015 -> 04:35 AM) Already have Cubs fan friends saying on FB that Arrieta pitched the best game since Kerry Wood's 20 Ks. I...I can't. Makes sense as they probably became Cubs fans this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:35 PM) I wouldn't say it's anywhere close to the worst of the last 20 years. Think Liriano, Nathan and Bonser for AJ Pierzynski, for one. Padres have made a few historically bad deals too just this year. But regardless, these are the type of one-sides trades we've been missing with this organization. We need the type of trade that sets us forwars without giving up much. Yes i know everyone is looking for that -- but we need it if we're thinking of improvig this offense beyond FA or the draft. Jake Peavy? Yency Almonte for Gordon Beckham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:32 PM) Yes, on the grounds that Sale isn't Kershaw. Everyone who isn't a Sox fan will tell you the same. Sale is better than Greinke historically. Greinke is having an extremely lucky season. Put Sale's number at slightly better than Zack's number last year, 2.30 -2.40 ERA, sure. That would make it half a run better than Chris's career ERA. Kershaw also benefits by pitching in LA where his career ERA is nearly 1 run lower than on the road. Sales and Kershaws career ERA on the road are only 0.11 apart and that's while Kershaw is pitching against inferior NL lineups including pitchers rather than DH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 To guarantee that Sale will have a sub-2 ERA in the NL seems pretty silly. But a 2-2.25 ERA is not at all unreasonable. He has a 2.47 FIP over the last two seasons, and adding in the usual NL discount we should expect an ERA in the low 2s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:35 PM) They did win 90 games the season following the World Series, and that's enough to get into the post-season more often than not these days...so you had the anomalies of the Twins/Tigers both being better in one season (same as the NL Central this year). They got to the playoffs in 2008, and made strong/competitive runs in 2010 and 2012, as well as adding Peavy/Rios/Beckham/Quentin/Floyd/Danks/Alexei Ramirez/Viciedo. Unfortunately, it didn't work out...but it's not like they immediately collapsed. If anything, they held onto the veteran core pieces for too long instead of starting the rebuilding in 2007-09 instead of pushing it all the way back to 2012/2013, essentially. It was more faded into obscurity...rather than being driven into the ground. Bringing in Thome, Mackowiak and Javy V. seemed like solid moves at the time. Of course, their FA moves this off-season were applauded by many as well, and we all know how that worked out. Regardless, this is rock bottom. This organization isn't going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 09:24 PM) I'm 30. I watched the World Series team just like you did. The organization celebrated by continually driving into the ground. Yeah, but things can turn quickly. Everyone thought 2007 was rock bottom as well...with the only thing to get excited about Josh Fields that second half (unless you were a Jerry Owens fan). Edited August 31, 2015 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Aug 30, 2015 -> 10:43 PM) Regardless, this is rock bottom. This organization isn't going anywhere. Not even close. Rock bottom would be Milwaukee Brewers or Colorado Rockies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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