Attendance 2015

[Harry Chappas]

I think that was overblown a bit as well. The first 4 years JR owned the White Sox they outdrew the Cubs by about 1,400,000 total. What killed the Sox was 1984. Everything came up roses for the Cubs until they went to San Diego in October. It used to be, they would actually close the upper deck at Wrigley Field back then. It wasn't until Harry's 4th season with the Cubs where they overtook the White Sox attendance-wise. The Sox actually slightly outdrew them in 1984.

 

The renaissance of wrigleyville and the poorly constructed US Cellular led to the flip. The late 90's was what killed the White Sox and built the cubs. The gap narrowed over the last couple of years but now it has blown wide open and looks to be this way for a while as the White Sox suck.

[fathom]

Just FYI, the reason I bumped this that no one really hit upon yet was really how bad last night's attendance was. I threw Sale's in because I was bumping the thread anyway.

 

Last night's attendance was pathetic. Goes to show you that there really was an impressive boost on Monday due to the Sale/Buehrle hype. I don't blame fans for not going. I attended the Sox/Cards game last Tuesday, and watching the Sox bat was more boring that this season of True Detective.

[Dick Allen]

The renaissance of wrigleyville and the poorly constructed US Cellular led to the flip. The late 90's was what killed the White Sox and built the cubs. The gap narrowed over the last couple of years but now it has blown wide open and looks to be this way for a while as the White Sox suck.

Wrigleyville did get better, but I still don't understand the appeal of being in a jam packed bar, paying ballpark prices, having to scream at the guy next to you for him to hear you.

[Thad Bosley]

What it boils down to is White Sox fans have all the excuses in the world.

Less on the lame fans' excuses nonsense and more on the dire need for this incompetent management team to substantially improve the product they are trying to sell to the fans.

[Hatchetman]

35 years of bad decisions! Not that hard to figure out where the blame lies!

[Doc Edwards Shot]

This team sucks I was at the game on June 19th and I was at Monday's game.

 

Other than watching Chris Sale pitch there is no reason to be out there NONE. The fundamentals, food etc are all bulls***. Put a good team on the field that is exciting to watch and you will get fans.

 

I know the team sucks, but the stadium food? I think it's as good as it's ever been and the front office has made a good effort to offer interesting things to eat and drink. That's one of the few things they've done right the past several years.

 

The food isn't the problem causing low attendance. It's all of the other things we keep beating the drum about: bad team, unattractive neighborhood situated far away from the Loop with no reputation for partying, second-fiddle stadium to Wrigley, less media coverage, etc.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Doc Edwards Shot

[southsider2k5]

Less on the lame fans' excuses nonsense and more on the dire need for this incompetent management team to substantially improve the product they are trying to sell to the fans.

 

Yet Cubs fans kept going to Wrigley Field in droves long before there was any hope or improvement. The only "nonsense" trotting out whatever the excuse du jour is, while people in the same town do the exact opposite of said excuse.

[Dunt]

Wrigleyville did get better, but I still don't understand the appeal of being in a jam packed bar, paying ballpark prices, having to scream at the guy next to you for him to hear you.

 

While I agree that I dont enjoy being in packed bars yelling at my friend a foot away from me, the appeal is that usually crowds and attractions like this bring energy and excitement. Sure, you get a lot of negative impact as well (Wrigleyville St. Patty's Day weekend is probably the worst place on Earth), but the excitement around games noticeably carries over. What is there to really do around the Cell? A couple bars? Tailgate in a 1/4 full lot? The Sox haven't really done anything to establish an atmosphere in the neighborhood. It can remain residential while still being fun to go to. They have just failed miserably at making their overall product the least bit exciting.

[Dick Allen]

While I agree that I dont enjoy being in packed bars yelling at my friend a foot away from me, the appeal is that usually crowds and attractions like this bring energy and excitement. Sure, you get a lot of negative impact as well (Wrigleyville St. Patty's Day weekend is probably the worst place on Earth), but the excitement around games noticeably carries over. What is there to really do around the Cell? A couple bars? Tailgate in a 1/4 full lot? The Sox haven't really done anything to establish an atmosphere in the neighborhood. It can remain residential while still being fun to go to. They have just failed miserably at making their overall product the least bit exciting.

There is not much they can do. They did open up a bar/restaurant, which is at least as nice as the Cubby Bear.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Dick Allen

[shysocks]

Do people not understand that Wrigley is a tourist attraction, or do they conveniently ignore it?

[LittleHurt05]

While I agree that I dont enjoy being in packed bars yelling at my friend a foot away from me, the appeal is that usually crowds and attractions like this bring energy and excitement. Sure, you get a lot of negative impact as well (Wrigleyville St. Patty's Day weekend is probably the worst place on Earth), but the excitement around games noticeably carries over. What is there to really do around the Cell? A couple bars? Tailgate in a 1/4 full lot? The Sox haven't really done anything to establish an atmosphere in the neighborhood. It can remain residential while still being fun to go to. They have just failed miserably at making their overall product the least bit exciting.

 

To be fair, the Cubs didn't really either, but they didn't have to. Wrigleyville used to be a dump. Then Chicago's gay population started moving in to a neighborhood next door, the area started becoming nicer, and present day Wrigleyville was born. It's not like the Cubs Sluggers or Murphys or any of the other local establishments.

[Buehrlesque]

Yet Cubs fans kept going to Wrigley Field in droves long before there was any hope or improvement. The only "nonsense" trotting out whatever the excuse du jour is, while people in the same town do the exact opposite of said excuse.

In the aggregate, Sox fans aren't that different than Cubs fans (or Mariners fans, or Padres fans or Royals fans, etc.). I buy that there is some truth to the "Sox fans have a different/more winning-oriented/more excuse-making mindset than Cubs fans," but not by nearly enough to explain the humongous gap in attendance. There's a reason Sox fans seem to behave differently, and it's not just something unique to their brains. People don't go to the Cell because the team is bad, the stadium is far away and the experience is unexciting and unpopular. If going to the Cell was considered as appealing as going to Wrigley, people would go. The demographic of the fandom is nowhere near as different from other fandoms (Cubs especially, but also other major league baseball teams, as well as the Bulls, Blackhawks and Bears) as you make it seem.

[WBWSF]

I've said it before and I will say it again: Bad Team+Bad Stadium Location+Bad Stadium Upper Deck= BAD ATTENDANCE.

[Harry Chappas]

I know the team sucks, but the stadium food? I think it's as good as it's ever been and the front office has made a good effort to offer interesting things to eat and drink. That's one of the few things they've done right the past several years.

 

The food isn't the problem causing low attendance. It's all of the other things we keep beating the drum about: bad team, unattractive neighborhood situated far away from the Loop with no reputation for partying, second-fiddle stadium to Wrigley, less media coverage, etc.

 

Not one person alive said, I am hungry, let's get something eat. Where shall we go...U.S. Cellular field.

 

The food is good but it is not drawing in fans same as the food at Wrigley is not driving the fans away.

[Thad Bosley]

Yet Cubs fans kept going to Wrigley Field in droves long before there was any hope or improvement. The only "nonsense" trotting out whatever the excuse du jour is, while people in the same town do the exact opposite of said excuse.

Forget about the Cubs. It's almost like comparing apples to oranges. In the '80s, due primarily to the combination of the ultimate salesman in Harry Caray and the power of WGN, they very successfully marketed the Wrigley Field/Wrigleyville experience. The popularity skyrocketed in the mid 80s and has carried to this very day. People go there primarily to experience the ballpark and neighborhood. The Sox have neither of those two things working for them. If the Cubs had neither, they'd have attendance issues, too, given their poor track record for winning. But they do have those two advantages, and therefore you cannot compare the two teams fairly on the attendance front.

 

As for this "excuse du jour", your argument continues to be upside down on all of this. Do you think Sox attendance is what it is this year because Sox fans wake up every day and make a different excuse for not going out to the ballpark? That's ridiculous. They are not going because Reinsdorf, Williams, and Hahn have given them no compelling reason to do so because the team they've given us is about as dreadful as it could get. Sox fans don't need to make an excuse - the team being awful is enough to keep them away. And with no other draw in the form of an amazing ballpark and/or great neighborhood experience, then the low attendance is no surprise.

[Chisoxfn]

Not one person alive said, I am hungry, let's get something eat. Where shall we go...U.S. Cellular field.

 

The food is good but it is not drawing in fans same as the food at Wrigley is not driving the fans away.

Stadium food may not draw in fans but I have been to a lot of MLB stadiums (20+) and the cell is near the top of my list when it comes to foods. It might be the foods I get that are in particular, but the sausages with the sweet peppers and onions are amongst the best in baseball (and the other food I've had has been solid). I actually am in general a very huge fan of the lower bowl at the cell in comparison to many of the stadiums I've been too. Clearly the cell won't compare to places like San Fran or Camden or even a Fenway (which has the history...although I would be apalled if I was a season ticket holder because if I go to many games, I want to have some of those amenities like comfortable seats w/leg room for this generation (and I'm not a big guy).

 

Product is what in most cases drives tickets or no tickets. Product on field has suffered past few years and we never were able to get past consistently contending and consistently making the the playoffs (which would have been a huge game changer).

[Chisoxfn]

Forget about the Cubs. It's almost like comparing apples to oranges. In the '80s, due primarily to the combination of the ultimate salesman in Harry Caray and the power of WGN, they very successfully marketed the Wrigley Field/Wrigleyville experience. The popularity skyrocketed in the mid 80s and has carried to this very day. People go there primarily to experience the ballpark and neighborhood. The Sox have neither of those two things working for them. If the Cubs had neither, they'd have attendance issues, too, given their poor track record for winning. But they do have those two advantages, and therefore you cannot compare the two teams fairly on the attendance front.

 

As for this "excuse du jour", your argument continues to be upside down on all of this. Do you think Sox attendance is what it is this year because Sox fans wake up every day and make a different excuse for not going out to the ballpark? That's ridiculous. They are not going because Reinsdorf, Williams, and Hahn have given them no compelling reason to do so because the team they've given us is about as dreadful as it could get. Sox fans don't need to make an excuse - the team being awful is enough to keep them away. And with no other draw in the form of an amazing ballpark and/or great neighborhood experience, then the low attendance is no surprise.

Well said.

[southsider2k5]

Forget about the Cubs. It's almost like comparing apples to oranges. In the '80s, due primarily to the combination of the ultimate salesman in Harry Caray and the power of WGN, they very successfully marketed the Wrigley Field/Wrigleyville experience. The popularity skyrocketed in the mid 80s and has carried to this very day. People go there primarily to experience the ballpark and neighborhood. The Sox have neither of those two things working for them. If the Cubs had neither, they'd have attendance issues, too, given their poor track record for winning. But they do have those two advantages, and therefore you cannot compare the two teams fairly on the attendance front.

 

As for this "excuse du jour", your argument continues to be upside down on all of this. Do you think Sox attendance is what it is this year because Sox fans wake up every day and make a different excuse for not going out to the ballpark? That's ridiculous. They are not going because Reinsdorf, Williams, and Hahn have given them no compelling reason to do so because the team they've given us is about as dreadful as it could get. Sox fans don't need to make an excuse - the team being awful is enough to keep them away. And with no other draw in the form of an amazing ballpark and/or great neighborhood experience, then the low attendance is no surprise.

 

It isn't just the Cubs. The Bulls and Bears do the exact same thing. We all know what a great fan sight the United Center is, right? All of the great bars to hang out at Solider Field? All of those titles the Bears and Bulls have put up in the 2000's...

 

Their attendance doesn't falter based on the record of the team. The Sox fan base continues to be different.

[Chisoxfn]

It isn't just the Cubs. The Bulls and Bears do the exact same thing. We all know what a great fan sight the United Center is, right? All of the great bars to hang out at Solider Field? All of those titles the Bears and Bulls have put up in the 2000's...

 

Their attendance doesn't falter based on the record of the team. The Sox fan base continues to be different.

Bulls won 6 titles and along with the Lakers and Celtics have the best brand awareness in the league (and history of the greatest player and probably the best global brand in the NBA). The Bulls also have been one of the most successful basketball franchises over the past 10 years (in terms of won / loss, unfortunately they haven't gotten the title but consistent playoffs have been made). They had the dark era after the dynasty but I really don't see how you can compare the two and the Bears were a once great team but it is also the NFL and 16 games and almost everything in the NFL sells out, let alone when you are talking about a major market like Chicago (with no split).

 

In the case of the Bears, 8 games in a market like Chicago...how pathetic would it be if you didn't sell out? Plus the product of the NFL is the most popular thing in the states when it comes to sports and has been for at least the past decade and more realistically since the 94 lockout.

[southsider2k5]

Bulls won 6 titles and along with the Lakers and Celtics have the best brand awareness in the league (and history of the greatest player and probably the best global brand in the NBA). The Bulls also have been one of the most successful basketball franchises over the past 10 years (in terms of won / loss, unfortunately they haven't gotten the title but consistent playoffs have been made). They had the dark era after the dynasty but I really don't see how you can compare the two and the Bears were a once great team but it is also the NFL and 16 games and almost everything in the NFL sells out, let alone when you are talking about a major market like Chicago (with no split).

 

So I don't really buy it.

 

Even when the Bulls were a perpetual laughing stock, they were amongst the NBA's attendance leaders.

[Chisoxfn]

Even when the Bulls were a perpetual laughing stock, they were amongst the NBA's attendance leaders.

Yes, but by that point they were coming off of 6 titles and one of the most dominate runs in sports history. Additionally, they had 13+ years with the greatest player on the planet so the fan base and generations growing up got to watch a run of special (even before the Bulls started winning titles). Hell, even during their drought, their were reasons to watch the team. People had to watch to see if Curry / Chandler would pan out (hype existed). Since Jordan was drafted by the Bulls, they have made the playoffs 24 times in 31 years. If the Bulls reverted to a run of 15 or 20 years with limited playoff appearances or even a 10 year run with 1 playoff appearance you might have saw something different.

 

Heck, had they not been aggressive and tried the Curry / Chandler twin towers experiment, attendance might have finally gotten a hit. You also have to remember the fact that you don't have other competition like Sox do (w/Cubs).

[shysocks]

Even when the Bulls were a perpetual laughing stock, they were amongst the NBA's attendance leaders.

They had a line of people 10,000 miles long ready to see the team from the Jordan years. Go figure, having a dynasty builds the fanbase.

 

And attendance still took a hit.

 

1999-00 41 22,124

2000-01 41 21,674

2001-02 41 18,934

2002-03 41 19,617

2003-04 41 19,736

[Dunt]

It isn't just the Cubs. The Bulls and Bears do the exact same thing. We all know what a great fan sight the United Center is, right? All of the great bars to hang out at Solider Field? All of those titles the Bears and Bulls have put up in the 2000's...

 

Their attendance doesn't falter based on the record of the team. The Sox fan base continues to be different.

 

Playoff appearances since 1990:

 

Bulls = 18

Bears = 7

 

Neither of the teams has any competition in the city in their respective sports, so your comparison doesn't really hold much weight.

[southsider2k5]

They had a line of people 10,000 miles long ready to see the team from the Jordan years. Go figure, having a dynasty builds the fanbase.

 

And attendance still took a hit.

 

1999-00 41 22,124

2000-01 41 21,674

2001-02 41 18,934

2002-03 41 19,617

2003-04 41 19,736

 

If only the White Sox had only taken a 20% after their title years.

 

Then even when the team was awful, the attendance started going up again. They gained fans after a .366 and .280 winning percentage. The White Sox lost fans after winning a division title. But, let's hear about all of things that make it different for the White Sox again.

[caulfield12]

The Cell and Kauffman are virtually identical...the slope or rake of the upper deck. USCF was almost an exact replica of that stadium, with the obvious difference of the outfield fountains.

 

Nobody complains in KC because they have a winning/exciting team now. It's the smallest market in baseball and they're in the top 10 in MLB attendance and didn't even win the World Series last season.

 

Very simple. Put a winning (and dynamic/interesting) team on the field, even the small markets can do well attendance-wise.

 

The opposite is just as true. A team that doesn't score many runs...in fact, is one of the most boring teams in baseball if not for the presence of Sale and Abreu, well, the results are patently obvious.

 

Attendance was terrible for the last 25 years in KC because they only flirted with winning in 2003 (first half) and finally had a winning season in 2013. This whole idea of the White Sox fanbase being unusual just doesn't have any support. Look at the Twins...who are playing in a very new stadium. They're not drawing very well and they're leading the race for the Wild Card. Nothing to do with bandwagon fans. It has everything to do with being terrible for 3-4 seasons in a row. Heck, the Twins also have Buxton, Sano and Berrios to be excited about.

 

We have? Tim Anderson and Carson Fulmer? Okay. Not quite equal.

 

Instead of thinking of the White Sox fans as "disloyal," we have to look at the Brewers, Cubs, Cardinals and Tigers are being successful anomalies that create the perception by their juxtaposition that Sox fans are "lesser thans" when it's just not true.

 

The White Sox simply can't put together a consistently compelling product. They can't string together consecutive years of success (and 2006/08/10/12 don't count for much, except in comparison to the wasteland of the 60's, 70's and 80's).

Edited July 8, 2015 by caulfield12