Kyyle23 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 21, 2015 -> 04:50 PM) As bad as Viciedo was, in his 5 years with the Sox, at ages 21 to 25, he never had a year as bad as the one La Roche has had this year. Considering that La Roche will be 36 next year, and Dayan will be just 27, I'd prefer to take my chances with the player who has just entered his prime. I would prefer neither option. And at least Laroche offers defensive value, whereas Viciedo has none Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 21, 2015 -> 05:23 PM) I would prefer neither option. And at least Laroche offers defensive value, whereas Viciedo has none I'm with you in not wanting either option. However, that was not the question, which I was addressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 QUOTE (Lillian @ Sep 21, 2015 -> 05:25 PM) I'm with you in not wanting either option. However, that was not the question, which I was addressing. Is it the question? Seems to me as it is the assumption in this thread rather than the question. I don't really think it is a safe bet that either of those players are going to be on the sox 25 man come spring If Viciedo really was in the running for DH next season, I am fairly sure he would be getting major league ABs right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Sox fans could do their self a big favor by accepting that LaRoche will be on the team next year. No team is going to trade for a player that earns 13M and cannot hit. The Sox are not going to pay LaRoche that kind of money to not be on the 25 man roster. All we can hope for going into 2016 is that LaRoche turns it around or can provide some value off the bench. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 12:43 AM) Sox fans could do their self a big favor by accepting that LaRoche will be on the team next year. No team is going to trade for a player that earns 13M and cannot hit. The Sox are not going to pay LaRoche that kind of money to not be on the 25 man roster. All we can hope for going into 2016 is that LaRoche turns it around or can provide some value off the bench. It is what it is. Probably true. Maybe an NL team will bite. Sox probably would have to play at least five million of it though and Jerry won't approve that. I'll say this about Melky. At least he hasn't been completely worthless like LaLob. Melky did get his average up to .280, though I do despise him as a player, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 21, 2015 -> 10:50 PM) Probably true. Maybe an NL team will bite. Sox probably would have to play at least five million of it though and Jerry won't approve that. I'll say this about Melky. At least he hasn't been completely worthless like LaLob. Melky did get his average up to .280, though I do despise him as a player, too. I would trade LaRoche in a heartbeat but its not something I am counting on. I know if LaRoche were on another team I would not want the Sox to trade for him. Even if a team offered to pay 5M, no thanks. I hope I'm dead wrong but I just don't see LaRoche going anywhere so I've come to accept he will be in a Sox uni for one more season. I really hope that the Sox use him as a bench bat and move Avi to the DH spot to open up RF for Thompson. As for Melky, I think the Sox are getting exactly what was expected from him and he's one of the few bright spots offensively this season. He doesn't have much power but he never has. He started driving in some runs once he was moved to the middle of the order and imo, he provided some protection for Abreu. Protection LaRoche failed to provide. I really have no complaints about Melky and I'm glad he's on the team. Aside from HR's, he's better in pretty much every offensive category when compared to the player he replaced, Viciedo. I do realize though, that improvement came at a pretty steep price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 21, 2015 -> 10:27 PM) Is it the question? Seems to me as it is the assumption in this thread rather than the question. I don't really think it is a safe bet that either of those players are going to be on the sox 25 man come spring If Viciedo really was in the running for DH next season, I am fairly sure he would be getting major league ABs right now you make a very convincing counter. however i would like to point out, the roster expansion and bringing up players to the majors is for the FO to get them major league look see. to see and to gage how how a prospect is doing and as a little reward for doing a great job. that is what i always thought. now with DV, everyone knows he can play in the majors, that is no secret there, and if... he is in the future for the sox, why bother with bringing him up. let the team see the other prospects. anyway, most of the time the regulars are seeing plenty of starting time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 06:02 AM) you make a very convincing counter. however i would like to point out, the roster expansion and bringing up players to the majors is for the FO to get them major league look see. to see and to gage how how a prospect is doing and as a little reward for doing a great job. that is what i always thought. now with DV, everyone knows he can play in the majors, that is no secret there, and if... he is in the future for the sox, why bother with bringing him up. let the team see the other prospects. anyway, most of the time the regulars are seeing plenty of starting time. I think he proved he really isnt a major league player, which is why he spent the last year both 1: unemployed, and 2: in AAA His success in AAA this year isnt an indicator of major league success. It is a red herring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 12:43 PM) I think he proved he really isnt a major league player, which is why he spent the last year both 1: unemployed, and 2: in AAA His success in AAA this year isnt an indicator of major league success. It is a red herring ok, you got me there. i misspoke in my intentions ..... nice catch. and you got a good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 The guy was unwanted by the rest of MLB. Certainly if he had MLB ability, some scout would have recommended that he be signed before he came back to the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 12:43 PM) I think he proved he really isnt a major league player, which is why he spent the last year both 1: unemployed, and 2: in AAA His success in AAA this year isnt an indicator of major league success. It is a red herring and you made another good point. but that is the only test that baseball has to gage prospects. how well they do in the minors. now these test can show a prospect is and will be nothing more than a AAAA type of a baseball player. but still he can be a cheap invite to training camp. don't get me wrong, i have never been a fan of his. i am thinking on how the sox FO will see things this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 01:23 PM) The guy was unwanted by the rest of MLB. Certainly if he had MLB ability, some scout would have recommended that he be signed before he came back to the Sox. and i agree, that is why i am thinking this might have been a wake up call. that is if he gets another shot, with what ever team will give it to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 He has at least proven that he can hit at the MLB level. I'd take him hitting .235 with 25 homers (or whatever his 2014 numbers were) at DH over LaRoche's .205 with 12 homers any day. I am not advocating that he start in a non-DH position nor do I think he's a good player. I just think he would produce better than LaRoche in 2016 at DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Why are we comparing LaRoche to Viciedo? One of them should only face RHP. The other one should only face LHP. They shouldn't even be fighting over the same roster spot anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 LaRoche will be a White Sox next season. Viciedo will not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 07:43 AM) I think he proved he really isnt a major league player, which is why he spent the last year both 1: unemployed, and 2: in AAA His success in AAA this year isnt an indicator of major league success. It is a red herring In the same day I have seen people pining for Tim Tebow and Dayan Viciedo. Now I know what depression really looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 08:36 AM) He has at least proven that he can hit at the MLB level. I'd take him hitting .235 with 25 homers (or whatever his 2014 numbers were) at DH over LaRoche's .205 with 12 homers any day. I am not advocating that he start in a non-DH position nor do I think he's a good player. I just think he would produce better than LaRoche in 2016 at DH. Wait, Dayan Viciedo has prove he can hit at the major league level, but Adam LaRoche hasn't? You can't be serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 08:53 AM) In the same day I have seen people pining for Tim Tebow and Dayan Viciedo. Now I know what depression really looks like. The Kirk Hinrich trifecta will bring the apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 09:11 AM) The Kirk Hinrich trifecta will bring the apocalypse Add to that the Cubs winning a World Series, and I believe you have the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 07:36 AM) He has at least proven that he can hit at the MLB level. I'd take him hitting .235 with 25 homers (or whatever his 2014 numbers were) at DH over LaRoche's .205 with 12 homers any day. I am not advocating that he start in a non-DH position nor do I think he's a good player. I just think he would produce better than LaRoche in 2016 at DH. He has not proven he can hit at the ML level. To put those 2014 numbers in perspective: despite those 21 homeruns, he somehow ended up with a 90 wRC+. A league average hitter is 100 wRC+ and each point represent 1% below or above that. In 2014, the average wRC+ for catchers was 93. So, essentially, despite 21 homers, 2014 Dayan Viciedo hit like a slightly below-average hitting catcher while playing a terrible LF and running the bases poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 08:54 AM) Wait, Dayan Viciedo has prove he can hit at the major league level, but Adam LaRoche hasn't? You can't be serious. I never said LaRoche hasn't. But next year I think LaRoche will be just as bad, if not worse, than this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'm not saying Viciedo is amazing or LaRoche has had a s*** career. Once again, my point is that I think if they were given the same amount of 2016 DH at-bats, Viciedo would be the better hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 11:43 AM) Once again, my point is that I think if they were given the same amount of 2016 DH at-bats, Viciedo would be the better hitter. Your point is not a point. It's an opinion based on unfounded pure speculation. No one can know for certain what hypothetical future statistics will happen in a non-existing scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 10:43 AM) I'm not saying Viciedo is amazing or LaRoche has had a s*** career. Once again, my point is that I think if they were given the same amount of 2016 DH at-bats, Viciedo would be the better hitter. I am not buying. Even after Adam Dunn's disaster of a 2011, he had a solid bounce back year in 2012. I think LaRoche has a much better 2016 for a myriad of reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 10:43 AM) I'm not saying Viciedo is amazing or LaRoche has had a s*** career. Once again, my point is that I think if they were given the same amount of 2016 DH at-bats, Viciedo would be the better hitter. Not against RHP. LaRoche hit righties better in 2015 than Viciedo has in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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