Dunt Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) This is what I mean. In the late 90's and 2000s the sox had one of the highest winning percaentages in baseball. Fans didnt go because thet werent in the playoffs. If the sox consistently nake the playoffs, fans wont go because they didnt win the world series often enough. I hafe season tickets because I enjoy baseball, live closer to the ballpark and enjoy the ballpark. The casual fan only cares about getting to the playoffs and how you do once you get there. That's just the way it is. Even with the Cubs, fans didnt really start coming out of the woodwork until August/September last year. I go to roughly 25 games a year, it sucks to see the stadium empty, but let's not pretend like the Sox have given fans all that much reason to go to the ballpark. They dont spend in FA, they dont spend internationally, they only recently started investing more in scouting/drafting, the park (while a perfectly acceptable place to catch a game) is kinda boring, the neighborhood doesnt really have a draw...unless the Sox start seeing the playoffs more, dont expect the attendance situation to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 03:25 PM) With the unbalanced schedule, the NL East/Central teams have an advantage over the West teams for the 2 WC spots. I wouldn't be surprised if one of Pitt, StL, or the Cubs actually misses the playoffs in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) This is what I mean. In the late 90's and 2000s the sox had one of the highest winning percaentages in baseball. Fans didnt go because thet werent in the playoffs. If the sox consistently nake the playoffs, fans wont go because they didnt win the world series often enough. I hafe season tickets because I enjoy baseball, live closer to the ballpark and enjoy the ballpark. Problem is, you have no comparison to draw off of. If the Sox consistently make the playoffs (which should mean at the minimum three years in a row), I'd guarantee they'd be drawing fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 08:17 PM) I just murdered a kangaroo. you gotta be f***ing kidding me? runs? rbi? #facepalm. Chuck whatever the f*** his name is should be banished pete rose style for that garbage. a dynasty is forming and there's nothing anybody can do about it. Whole string of tweets makes more sense: Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien 6m6 minutes ago Cubs fans don't be like Cardinals fans. You're better than that. Heyward will be great(again). Was just comparing some stats. Good day. Chuck Garfien Retweeted Luke Stuckmeyer I put it in the next tweet. Heyward is a great defender. Said it twice. Cubs fans so defensive. Chuck Garfien added, Luke Stuckmeyer @LukeStuckmeyer .@ChuckGarfien Heyward has a top 15 WAR. Seems you left that stat off. You've gone fishin' again Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien 27m27 minutes ago Heyward is an elite defender. Had a 6.5 WAR in 2015. Eaton was 3.9. Heyward will be great for Cubs. Just not sure he's worth $180 million. Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien 32m32 minutes ago Jayson Heyward in 2015: 79 runs/13 HR/60 RBI/.293 BA/.359 OBP/.797 OPS Adam Eaton in 2015: 98 runs/14 HR/56 RBI/.287 BA/.361 OBP/.792 OPS Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien 33m33 minutes ago Jason Heyward is a great signing for the Cubs. No doubt. But as pointed out to me by @_TBOZ, he has an interesting White Sox comp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) The casual fan only cares about getting to the playoffs and how you do once you get there. That's just the way it is. Even with the Cubs, fans didnt really start coming out of the woodwork until August/September last year. I go to roughly 25 games a year, it sucks to see the stadium empty, but let's not pretend like the Sox have given fans all that much reason to go to the ballpark. They dont spend in FA, they dont spend internationally, they only recently started investing more in scouting/drafting, the park (while a perfectly acceptable place to catch a game) is kinda boring, the neighborhood doesnt really have a draw...unless the Sox start seeing the playoffs more, dont expect the attendance situation to change. The sox spend in free agency. Robertson and cabrera just last year. Internationally they've done pretty well with Rameirez and abreu recently. I've never really understood what the neighborhood has to do with watching a baseball game. My point all along is that the attendance wont challenge the cubs even with more playoff appearances. I just see more excuses in general from sox fans to not go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) The MLB would never allow the White Sox to move away from Chicago. It's not happening. They were already let them going to move once, not sure why they would stop them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:34 PM) They were already let them going to move once, not sure why they would stop them now. That was to an untapped market in florida, which turned out to be a dry well as not many fans seem to go. Where is the untapped market now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 09:33 PM) The sox spend in free agency. Robertson and cabrera just last year. Internationally they've done pretty well with Rameirez and abreu recently. I've never really understood what the neighborhood has to do with watching a baseball game. My point all along is that the attendance wont challenge the cubs even with more playoff appearances. I just see more excuses in general from sox fans to not go. They just have to win. The fans were excited for last year, but that excitement quickly vanished with the slow start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) They just have to win. The fans were excited for last year, but that excitement quickly vanished with the slow start. Don't get me wrong, I have season tickets and will always go to games. I've just become more pessimistic that just winning will ever bring the sox to the cubs levels for interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 08:38 PM) Don't get me wrong, I have season tickets and will always go to games. I've just become more pessimistic that just winning will ever bring the sox to the cubs levels for interest. They'll never compete with the Cubs for fan interest, as the Cubs have the "outside of Chicago suburbs" market in hand. Sox just have to win enough to draw a decent enough amount to be able to have a solid payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Arguably the 7 worst teams in baseball are all in the NL, we're going to see some crazy win totals in the NL again for the top teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) They'll never compete with the Cubs for fan interest, as the Cubs have the "outside of Chicago suburbs" market in hand. Sox just have to win enough to draw a decent enough amount to be able to have a solid payroll. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 He can opt out after 4th or after third depending on amount of at bats. Wow that's a hell of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) Sox just have to win enough to draw a decent enough amount to be able to have a solid payroll. "Just" They have no history of being able to consistenly win. I'm not going to argue that maybe Sox fans are "bad fans." Unfortunately winning 87 games and getting bounced as a wild card -- that's just not going to cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpd9189 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The Sox need to do the following. 1. Stop trying to compete with or be obsessed over the Cubs. They're not in our division or league. Look at them no different then you look at the Padres or Braves. what the Cubs do or don't do shouldn't influence the Sox. 2. Draft better and build/develop from within and create a sustainable winner. If they do these things, fans will come. Everyone loves being a fan of a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:34 PM) They were already let them going to move once, not sure why they would stop them now. Even drawing peanuts look at the White Sox revenues vs other teams. The White Sox aren't moving, or at least if they did, another team would move in quickly. When Bill Veeck "saved" the White Sox for Chicago, he didn't save AL baseball in Chicago. Finley would have moved the A's here. Chicago is not going to be a one team town, at least for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 If the Mets and Oakland cna exist, the White Sox can exist. This is a silly conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) White Sox arent going to make a flury of moves because the Cubs did. Rick Hahn will give us a speech about staying the course and not paying attention. But I doubt he's completely oblivious to the whole situation. He wants to make moves too. Just not on their time schedule. Edited December 11, 2015 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:36 PM) That was to an untapped market in florida, which turned out to be a dry well as not many fans seem to go. Where is the untapped market now? There are a few. Look at the regional TV markets that do not have pro sports teams as a start. Charlotte - Fox Sports Carolinas Indianapolis - Fox Sports Indiana Oklahoma City - Fox Sports Oklahoma Nashville - Fox Sports Southeast/Tennessee Salt Lake City - Root Sports Utah Portland - CSN Northwest Fastest growing cities in the US: 5. Salt Lake City 6. Raleigh, NC Based on that, I would think Charlotte, Indianapolis and SLC would be real opportunities for the Sox to relocate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:49 PM) If the Mets and Oakland cna exist, the White Sox can exist. This is a silly conversation. Oakland can't they have been desperately trying to move south from Oakland for years. The time is going to come, and I imagine it will be in 2019 when the media deals are up, that the Sox are going to have a really tough decision to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Montreal market is like 4 million. Much bigger than any of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 TV deals becoming ridiculous are the exact reason the Sox would never ever move. They drive everything. This isnt the 70s. Even if people aren't tuning in, the potential will always be there for them to do so, and there's no chance in hell MLB gives that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:57 PM) TV deals becoming ridiculous are the exact reason the Sox would never ever move. They drive everything. This isnt the 70s. Even if people aren't tuning in, the potential will always be there for them to do so, and there's no chance in hell MLB gives that up. The Sox are not going to get a competitive TV deal. Low attendance, lowest viewership of any team on a RSN. They are going to have to do something different to compete for a contract like those that you see other teams getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunt Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:33 PM) The sox spend in free agency. Robertson and cabrera just last year. Internationally they've done pretty well with Rameirez and abreu recently. I've never really understood what the neighborhood has to do with watching a baseball game. My point all along is that the attendance wont challenge the cubs even with more playoff appearances. I just see more excuses in general from sox fans to not go. Last year they spent $128 million across 4 players. One of their biggest offseasons in franchise history. As a comparison, the f***ing Diamondbacks just spent $206.5 million on 1 player. Not saying that model is beneficial to building a winner, but the Sox hardly spend big in FA. They are always going for the lower tier guys. Abreu is the largest contract in franchise history at $68 million. Great gamble by the organization, but the Sox are 1 of, what, 8 teams that have never had a contract over $100 million? Over $70 million for that matter? They haven't gone over their J2 allotment yet to replenish an otherwise mediocre farm system that was greatly in need of a talent infusion. Neighborhood has a lot to do with bringing in money for a team, whether you choose to admit that or not is completely up to you. I like Bridgeport, but again, to a casual fan, what is there that would make you want to go to a game? Not everyone is a rabid baseball fan. I dont need them to compete with the Cubs, that really isn't feasible. I think it's a lazy narrative to say that Sox fans just make excuses though. People want to see postseasons, the Sox havent delivered on that. Interest will diminish when you arent ever playing in October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 02:59 PM) The Sox are not going to get a competitive TV deal. Low attendance, lowest viewership of any team on a RSN. They are going to have to do something different to compete for a contract like those that you see other teams getting. They have ownership in their own network and that % is about to spike way up thanks to the Cubs. They don't need a competitive deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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