Alex Gordon Thread

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Honestly, I would be content with this lineup

 

Eaton (CF)

Melky (LF)

Abreu (1B)

FA Acquisition (RF)

Frazier (3B)

Lawrie (2B)

LaRoche/Garcia (DH)

Navarro/Avila ©

Saladino (SS)

 

with the bench being Shuck, LaRoche/Garcia, Avila/Navarro, and Sanchez.

[Chicago White Sox]

And they shouldn't. A team with the Sox payroll can't add two more expensive outfielders when you already have the money invested in Melky (plus have Eaton). I personally think we are golden if we get one outfielder. Might like an upgrade in the rotation / pen, but the lineup would look nice. LaRoche/Avi can platoon at DH (with Melky ocassionally playing their as well)....plus you have Shuck who can bring some plus defense and solid offense off the bench. Sanchez as the super sub and either Saladino or Ramirez at SS.

Shuck brings plus defense? I guess I didn't see that when watching him play (actually looked bad to me) and I don't believe advanced metrics liked his defense very much either. His bat is solid for a bench guy, but he might be the most overrated player on this site. Some posters have talked about giving him regular playing time, which would be beyond disastrous.

[elrockinMT]

Gordon does make sense for the White Sox. Good outfield defense and a decent bat. He would play LF with Cabrera moving to DH, but that depends on whether Laroche stays with the Sox. I think there is less of a chance Garcia gets dealt because of his youth and talent. I see little chance of Upton or Cespedes coming here based only on the salary demand.

[Chicago White Sox]

I have a feeling the Sox dont sign any of these big three. I predict them to pretty much stay put where they are at in payroll right now (outside of signing a cheap SS option and other odds and ends) and see how the team plays with the option to rebuild come the middle of summer or add a big name at that time depending on how they are producing.

Why do you think this? Recent Hahn interviews suggest they aren't done fixing the offense and that RF is an upgrade spot, and multiple baseball insiders have suggested the Sox are actively pursuing the high-end OFs. I would be shocked if they didn't add at least one more significant piece, with one of the big three OFs being the likely player.

[Chicago White Sox]

Honestly, I would be content with this lineup

 

Eaton (CF)

Melky (LF)

Abreu (1B)

FA Acquisition (RF)

Frazier (3B)

Lawrie (2B)

LaRoche/Garcia (DH)

Navarro/Avila ©

Saladino (SS)

 

with the bench being Shuck, LaRoche/Garcia, Avila/Navarro, and Sanchez.

Who is the backup CF?

[Chicago White Sox]

Dumb question, but what prevents Gordon from playing RF? Doesn't he have a great arm?

[lasttriptotulsa]

Who is the backup CF?

 

Shuck played a little CF last year. There is still one open spot on top of the four he listed (A. Garcia, Shuck, Backup C, Sanchez). Maybe Leury makes the roster again.

[ChiSox59]

What kind of contract do you think he'll get then?

 

I could see 2 years $16M, three years $24M for Parra.

[LDF]

 

i wouldn't mind taking a stab at parra and if not him, i like David Murphy who is a lhh and plays the outfield.

 

if someone looks at the lineup, it is heavily right handed hitting.

 

[bmags]

"plays the outfield"

[bmags]

I feel like Daniel Murphy is going to end up as a nelson cruz like signing. No market for him, but found a fit and is now a cheap incredibly productive hitter. Wish we had a DH spot for him.

[CyAcosta41]

I'm all for an Alex Gordon signing.

 

In a vacuum, both Cespedes and Upton are bigger offensive threats than Gordon, even though Gordon is a strong offensive player in his own right.

 

But this isn't a vacuum, it's selecting one player to best fit our circumstances. Weighing everything, I think that means Gordon -- and rather handily.

 

Factors that make Gordon the chosen one, include:

 

* His OBP is better and should continue to be better

* Handedness does matter and the Sox need a strong left-handed bat

* The Sox don't need another masher, they need a talented overall bat (I'd go Eaton, Melky, Gordon, Abreu)

* Defense matters. A lot. And the Sox need it badly. The others aren't bad, but Gordon is strong.

* Gordon has a track record of success in the AL Central.

* $$$. Repeat, $$$. Gordon might cost 4/$72M (something like that). The others are likely both at least 6/$130M. The Sox could plow some of this savings immediately into pitching, or save some as additional war-chest for the deadline deal that we'll undoubtedly need this year for our playoff push.

 

Yes, he has some cons: he's a little older, has a recent injury (I trust our medical/training team), and doesn't have the same "shock and awe" factor as the other two. Even if those things matter, they pale in comparison to his many pros.

 

For me, Gordon fits our circumstances the best, but you'll hear no complaints from me about either Cespedes or Upton (different pros and cons, but similar overall impact from my perspective).

[ChiSox59]

I think Gordon is the best overall fit on the Sox. He will command significantly less than Upton and Cespedes, plays plus-plus D and is a LH bat. I think Upton and Cespedes are better offensive players, but not $60-$70M better. I'd be fine with any of the three, but Gordon in LF, Eaton is CF, and a RF platoon of Avi/Shuck or better yet an OF platoon of Parra/Avi would IMMENSELY improve the OF defense, which I think should be a priority. For those of you that say, "well what about LaRoche?"...he can remain on the roster for injury insurance, pinch hitting, defensive replacement and Abreu's personal masseuse. He'll get his ABs.

 

This scenario obviously requires the Sox to raise payroll, but they can get cute so it only bumps it about $12-15M this year and goes back down to $125M or so next year.

[ChiSox59]

i wouldn't mind taking a stab at parra and if not him, i like David Murphy who is a lhh and plays the outfield.

 

if someone looks at the lineup, it is heavily right handed hitting.

 

Murphy's got a nice bat, but he is a HORRIBLE outfielder.

[Chisoxfn]

Shuck brings plus defense? I guess I didn't see that when watching him play (actually looked bad to me) and I don't believe advanced metrics liked his defense very much either. His bat is solid for a bench guy, but he might be the most overrated player on this site. Some posters have talked about giving him regular playing time, which would be beyond disastrous.

Maybe I'm misreading the stats and I'd also argue the stats aren't that great because sample sizes as a platoon player are tough, but given limited playing time and playing a variety positions, he had positive Dwar last year. That has fluctuated. Maybe I should have restated my comment by saying above average defense vs. Avi / Melky (which is what I was more implying). His defense though is statistically solid (based upon the limited Defensive Stats I'm looking at) but also statistically flawed given the sample size.

[Knackattack]

Maybe I'm misreading the stats and I'd also argue the stats aren't that great because sample sizes as a platoon player are tough, but given limited playing time and playing a variety positions, he had positive Dwar last year. That has fluctuated. Maybe I should have restated my comment by saying above average defense vs. Avi / Melky (which is what I was more implying). His defense though is statistically solid (based upon the limited Defensive Stats I'm looking at) but also statistically flawed given the sample size.

Shuck definitely looked solid in RF to me last year. 1000 times better than Avi and his arm plays pretty decently there as well.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Maybe I'm misreading the stats and I'd also argue the stats aren't that great because sample sizes as a platoon player are tough, but given limited playing time and playing a variety positions, he had positive Dwar last year. That has fluctuated. Maybe I should have restated my comment by saying above average defense vs. Avi / Melky (which is what I was more implying). His defense though is statistically solid (based upon the limited Defensive Stats I'm looking at) but also statistically flawed given the sample size.

 

bWAR had him rated as a positive a D-WAR player but fWAR had him rated pretty poorly. The difference being he had a positive DRS but a poor UZR. His UZR/150 was actually worse than Avi's. Although like you said, the sample size for bench players is pretty small and defensive metrics in such a small sample size should be taken with a grain of salt.

Edited December 21, 2015 by lasttriptotulsa

[iamshack]

I'm all for an Alex Gordon signing.

 

In a vacuum, both Cespedes and Upton are bigger offensive threats than Gordon, even though Gordon is a strong offensive player in his own right.

 

But this isn't a vacuum, it's selecting one player to best fit our circumstances. Weighing everything, I think that means Gordon -- and rather handily.

 

Factors that make Gordon the chosen one, include:

 

* His OBP is better and should continue to be better

* Handedness does matter and the Sox need a strong left-handed bat

* The Sox don't need another masher, they need a talented overall bat (I'd go Eaton, Melky, Gordon, Abreu)

* Defense matters. A lot. And the Sox need it badly. The others aren't bad, but Gordon is strong.

* Gordon has a track record of success in the AL Central.

* $$$. Repeat, $$$. Gordon might cost 4/$72M (something like that). The others are likely both at least 6/$130M. The Sox could plow some of this savings immediately into pitching, or save some as additional war-chest for the deadline deal that we'll undoubtedly need this year for our playoff push.

 

Yes, he has some cons: he's a little older, has a recent injury (I trust our medical/training team), and doesn't have the same "shock and awe" factor as the other two. Even if those things matter, they pale in comparison to his many pros.

 

For me, Gordon fits our circumstances the best, but you'll hear no complaints from me about either Cespedes or Upton (different pros and cons, but similar overall impact from my perspective).

Good post CA!

Good to see your well-thought out arguments again!

[Dick Allen]

I wonder the validity of the tweet. No one else has it but this guy. I do agree, if the offers are similar if it is between KC and the Sox, he has no reason to leave, but if KC is offering Adam LaRoche money, I find it hard to believe several teams wouldn't blow that away.

[bmags]

True, I have no idea who that tweet is.

[Special K]

I wonder the validity of the tweet. No one else has it but this guy. I do agree, if the offers are similar if it is between KC and the Sox, he has no reason to leave, but if KC is offering Adam LaRoche money, I find it hard to believe several teams wouldn't blow that away.

 

Make me naucious to even think LaRoche might be compensated along the same lines as Gordon. I don't even think LaRoche deserves league minimum, and the players union might not fight the sox on that...

[fathom]

I can't say whether it's true or not but the guy definitely has connections.

 

Yep, wonder if Gordon himself told the guy this

[Bigsoxhurt35]

We don't need someone to "strike fear". Gordon brings tremendous defense, decent hitting, and comes from a winning background. That's what we need.

And I agree with that too. I just would like to have a guy like Cespedes behind Abreu. I do love Gordon's defense and clutch hitting at times is a plus.

[beck72]

I'm all for an Alex Gordon signing.

 

In a vacuum, both Cespedes and Upton are bigger offensive threats than Gordon, even though Gordon is a strong offensive player in his own right.

 

But this isn't a vacuum, it's selecting one player to best fit our circumstances. Weighing everything, I think that means Gordon -- and rather handily.

 

Factors that make Gordon the chosen one, include:

 

* His OBP is better and should continue to be better

* Handedness does matter and the Sox need a strong left-handed bat

* The Sox don't need another masher, they need a talented overall bat (I'd go Eaton, Melky, Gordon, Abreu)

* Defense matters. A lot. And the Sox need it badly. The others aren't bad, but Gordon is strong.

* Gordon has a track record of success in the AL Central.

* $$$. Repeat, $$$. Gordon might cost 4/$72M (something like that). The others are likely both at least 6/$130M. The Sox could plow some of this savings immediately into pitching, or save some as additional war-chest for the deadline deal that we'll undoubtedly need this year for our playoff push.

 

Yes, he has some cons: he's a little older, has a recent injury (I trust our medical/training team), and doesn't have the same "shock and awe" factor as the other two. Even if those things matter, they pale in comparison to his many pros.

 

For me, Gordon fits our circumstances the best, but you'll hear no complaints from me about either Cespedes or Upton (different pros and cons, but similar overall impact from my perspective).

Well said. Getting a true professional like Gordon would be a nice coup for the Sox. We'd be lucky to get him.

 

With Gordon signed, the Sox could trade Avi for a young starting pitcher who may be struggling-like Garcia. If he's not starting he could be a bullpen arm.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Well said. Getting a true professional like Gordon would be a nice coup for the Sox. We'd be lucky to get him.

 

With Gordon signed, the Sox could trade Avi for a young starting pitcher who may be struggling-like Garcia. If he's not starting he could be a bullpen arm.

Who falls into that category that Garcia could be traded for? I can't think of any.