2016 Democratic Thread

[lostfan]

Until a couple of years ago, Hillary Clinton was recognized by most people as an ordinary Democratic politician with pretty standard Democratic positions on most issues, and a public voting record that backs this up. The criticism of her from the left was mainly her hawkishness on foreign policy (the main reason she lost the primary to Obama) and some black liberals had started going after her for 90s era "tough on crime" laws that significantly increased the prison population, and some hard feelings from how she ran her campaign against Obama in 2008. Again, this is pretty ordinary politician stuff. The vast majority of the right's criticism of her was nonsensical conspiracy theories that nobody took seriously outside of talk radio and some Fox News pundits.

 

Then she announced she was running for president (actually very low key, she just released a video where she was barely even the focus) and this started to change. The left's criticism of her got really exaggerated and she turned into this red-handed racist Lady Macbeth who is the most corrupt political figure in American history, who is eager to sell everyone out to the banks and send every black person to prison. Bernie Sanders started gaining momentum on her and then because they really wanted to grasp onto any reason to vote against her, many of his supporters started co-opting right-wing talking points against her, so for the first time you had liberals talking about Benghazi, Vince Foster, murder conspiracies, other fake scandals, and obsessed with e-mails. The Wikileaks stuff just makes it worse, because almost nobody ever actually reads those in full context, so they will see whatever they want to see in them.

 

That's how we got to where we are now. I'm really tired of hearing about it, honestly. I'm tired of false equivalences made between Clinton and Trump. Clinton has thousands and thousands of words about policy you're free to scrutinize but are otherwise serious policy proposals, Trump might be the single worst presidential nominee this country has ever produced who doesn't even have actual plans for the very little policy he actually DOES propose. They're not the same. The choice isn't hard. Your choices are a run-of-the-mill Democrat and an insane person.

[bmags]

At least Andrew Jackson also had a strong policy stance against the banks.

[bmags]

Which he was wrong about

[chw42]

Ken Bone did a Reddit AMA. He probably should not have done that

 

This is why you make a throwaway...he got infatuated with the karma he was going to possibly get out of this.

[Steve9347]

It was the second or third time, yes it was egging. But it's your site and you'll enforce your rules however you want.

[brett05]

I think they go hand in hand, but Limbaugh laying out his lack of understanding or even rejection of consent- based ethics to borrow a phrase from crimson just highlights the underlying problem so well.

 

Mike pence has been on the morning shows defending Trump and claiming that Trump has proof that the accusations against him are lies.

Pence was outstanding this morning showing by far he's the best of the four folks involved in this race (Sorry Johnson and Stein, you ain't part of the four).

 

That said, how do you have proof of a negative? That puzzled me.

 

I wish the hosts would have told Pence that we don't care at all about policies, we only want to hear about Trump allegations and whether or not you can handle them correctly. They were quite rude.

[CrimsonWeltall]

That said, how do you have proof of a negative? That puzzled me.

 

Same way you have proof of Obama being a Kenyan Muslim.

[Soxbadger]

Pence was outstanding this morning showing by far he's the best of the four folks involved in this race (Sorry Johnson and Stein, you ain't part of the four).

 

That said, how do you have proof of a negative? That puzzled me.

 

I wish the hosts would have told Pence that we don't care at all about policies, we only want to hear about Trump allegations and whether or not you can handle them correctly. They were quite rude.

 

What is the point about caring about policies when Trump changes them all the time. I mean Trump has been a Democrat, he has supported Hillary Clinton, he has defended Bill Clinton against the 4 accusers, he has said things and then days later claimed "I never said that".

 

So what is the point?

 

 

[bmags]

Pence is a disgusting person. His abortion bill required people seek funeral services for any fetus that died in utero. And it required everyone be cremated or buried. My wife had three miscarriages while we tried for child, and he would have forced us to spend money to comply with his disgusting bill instead of grieve and deal with it as a family. He deserves every hell that comes to him. Principled and kind my ass. Thank God for US judicial system that protected families from his callousness.

[bmags]

TFW when you see dems will pick up a senate seat but it's Evan bayh. I don't have a gif for it but I'm making that face

[shysocks]

[GoSox05]

But, then you remember that Russ Feingold is probably back in the senate.

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

Multiple women come out of the woodwork accusing Bill Cosby of rape. Result? Life, reputation and career ruined.

 

Multiple women come out of the woodwork accusing Donald Trump of sexual assault/rape. Result? Reasonable shot to be the next POTUS.

 

What the f*** is wrong with our country? And I am in no way implying that Cosby is getting a raw deal.

[pettie4sox]

Pence is worst than Trump because he's a socially conservative psychopath.

 

Trump is a dope but Pence, if he became president would be really f***ing scary.

Edited October 14, 2016 by pettie4sox

[lasttriptotulsa]

But, then you remember that Russ Feingold is probably back in the senate.

 

Hopefully. Johnson making some headway though in the polls. Should be a good debate tonight. Looking forward to seeing Feingold take him to school.

 

As a side note. I got a chance to meet Feingold a few weeks ago at a small fundraiser in a tavern. Awesome dude. Made his way through the entire bar making sure to shake hands, learn everybody's name and chat for a few seconds with each and every person there on his way in and then shook nearly everybody's hand again on the way out. A good friend of mine served two terms in the Wisconsin State Assembly and knows Feingold fairly well. He told me the guy is about as sincere as you can get, especially for a politician. My buddy had very little support and was not taken all that seriously at first as a viable candidate by the Democratic Party of Wisconsin due to the unlikelihood of him defeating a long term Republican incumbent. That all changed once he received an endorsement from Feingold. Then he was taken very seriously.

Edited October 14, 2016 by lasttriptotulsa

[southsider2k5]

When Glenn Beck worked for CNN, he was a reasonable, thoughtful guy I thought, I actually liked him even if I disagreed with most of what he said. Then Obama won the election in a huge tidal wave and Dems had a House majority and a supermajority in the Senate (even if only functional for a few weeks and mostly a mirage), and he went over to Fox and made a s***load of money selling fear and paranoia. It eventually got to be too much even for Fox but his media company still lived. Most of that s*** he does is just an act.

 

Rush Limbaugh is the same thing honestly. If you go back into his pre-right wing radio show, he was nothing like this.

[southsider2k5]

Multiple women come out of the woodwork accusing Bill Cosby of rape. Result? Life, reputation and career ruined.

 

Multiple women come out of the woodwork accusing Donald Trump of sexual assault/rape. Result? Reasonable shot to be the next POTUS.

 

What the f*** is wrong with our country? And I am in no way implying that Cosby is getting a raw deal.

 

He has no shot at being President. Honestly the one thing this has done long term is ruin his brand. In the long term, he is going to see some pretty big financial problems because a lot of the world isn't going to want to be associated with him.

[southsider2k5]

Pence is worst than Trump because he's a socially conservative psychopath.

 

Trump is a dope but Pence, if he became president would be really f***ing scary.

 

I can't stand Pence, but I will give him credit for being intelligent and well read, even if I can't handle most of his positions.

[greg775]

Multiple women come out of the woodwork accusing Bill Cosby of rape. Result? Life, reputation and career ruined.

 

Multiple women come out of the woodwork accusing Donald Trump of sexual assault/rape. Result? Reasonable shot to be the next POTUS.

 

What the f*** is wrong with our country? And I am in no way implying that Cosby is getting a raw deal.

He has no shot to be president, come on. And these allegations could wind up being Cosby-like if anybody decides to press charges/sue after all these years. Remember the Cosby case had somebody sue I believe.

 

He has no shot at being President. Honestly the one thing this has done long term is ruin his brand. In the long term, he is going to see some pretty big financial problems because a lot of the world isn't going to want to be associated with him.

Exactly. After the election, if the sexual allegations thing doesn't explode in formal charges and get very very ugly (worse than now) he'll remain on TV a lot. I'm sure he'll keep his millions but he's done.

[pettie4sox]

I can't stand Pence, but I will give him credit for being intelligent and well read, even if I can't handle most of his positions.

 

He's a politician for sure but any extreme right wing religious zealots need to be shut down early.

[greg775]

Greg,

 

I appreciate your honest reply. While I do believe Trump winning is unlikely, there have been "unlikely" events that have occurred in history that have resulted in terrible things. Many of those events occurred because people sat on the sidelines and didnt ever believe "it could get that bad." Who knows what will happen with Hillary, but I believe it likely will be the status quo. Which in reality, is all we need. There is something fundamentally broken in Congress, where "compromise" has become a bad thing. Our country is being taken over by the extreme, because they have the loudest voices, they are the ones that show up no matter. So we end up pandering to them, in a sick cycle where the minority extreme dictates the course for everyone. Every issue isnt some sort of end all war, but thats what they make it. Instead of starting with "What can we agree on?" they start with "we will never give in." They would rather destroy everything than come up with a solution that may require a small sacrifice by both sides.

 

As to how did the Republican's let it get there? Because they didnt think Trump really could do it. So some sat on the sidelines, some of them voted for Trump out of protest and maybe even some voted for Trump in an attempt to cripple the Republican's chances in the general election. But again, instead of the Republican candidates sacrificing themselves, they all went for their own glory. That is, until it was too late. Because what they never predicted was that the minority extreme, would show up. And while the rest of the Republican field split all of their votes among an insane amount of candidates, the extreme all went for Trump.

 

So here we are. And I am not going to tell anyone how to vote. The greatness and terribleness of a democracy/republic is that we are all entitled to vote for whoever we want for whatever reason we want. All I can say is that not standing up to evil, is evil. For thousands of years humans have been trampled and destroyed so that we could have the privilege of living in this nation and it is extremely offensive that people of this country parade around signs saying "Make America great again." Because the underlying implication is that somehow America was better when not everyone was equal, when there were Americans struggling to have the same rights just because of their race, gender, religion, orientation. To me there is nothing great to go back to.

 

All we can do is try and create a country where the lowest of the low have a chance to become the highest of the high. That may mean that we have to give up something, that we have to pay taxes that are "unfair", that some people may "game" the system. But so what, nothing is ever truly "even" or really "fair." But at least we live in a country where I am not going to worry that I will wake up tonight with a black hood coming down over my face, because I dared to disagree, because I am not one of the "majority." And there is no price that can be put on that.

Well you are making very good points. That is probably a good point that my vote of Ventura is not making sure (in theory cause Kansas will vote Republican no matter what) evil stays out of the White House. As much as I despise Hillary I do have to concede she is not "evil" in the true sense of the word. Like you said it is more apt to be status quo which I happen to not like (I dont like what have happened to my medical benefits, the economy and buddies getting laid off, what I deem racial problems and problems with police, etc.) but status quo like you said is OK compared to a truly evil man becoming president. You do make good points. If I re-read your post 1,000 times I could start to hate Hillary less I would think. I like your comments on gridlock in Congress as well. I don't like what's happened and I appreciate your statements on that subject as well.

 

Greg,

 

Here is the biggest problem. If you really read what most of us have said, we agree with a lot of this. There HAVE not been a ton of posts actually supporting Hillary Clinton. It's been more bashing her opponent, which is justified.

 

You're right. This election is between a .050 hitter and a .150 hitter. It's unacceptable. But it is what it is. You can try and be cute and talk about Jesse Ventura, but it means nothing. Congrats, your vote will mean nothing. Are you looking for praise from everyone?

 

I just don't know why you crave negative Hillary articles so badly. You see what you want to see, and don't take anything else in. We pile on because you're no different than a talking head on CNN that's pulling for one side. Someone will present a rational point to a claim, and your response didn't hear any of it, just rehashed the same old argument you've been making for months. Why even have the discussion if you aren't going to listen?

 

Again, actually read what people write, and stop getting all your news from talk radio and right-wing conservatives. Expand your base, look at things for all angles. You'll hear a lot of different opinions, not just what Rush and Lumpy Hannity have to say...

That's a good post as well. I do agree there have not been a lot of posts supporting Hillary, most bashing the other side. I guess I would prefer Soxtalkers actually show me WHY they support Hillary. And what makes them happy she's to become President besides hatred of Trump. But you make good points as well. Its not as if many Soxtalkers have flat out said, "I'm choosing the lesser of the two evils." And you are right about me and Jesse V. It does sadden me my vote in that scenario means nothing. I guess I can take solace in the fact it truly won't matter in this goshforsaken political state of Kansas where Trump will win easily cause of the R.

 

Until a couple of years ago, Hillary Clinton was recognized by most people as an ordinary Democratic politician with pretty standard Democratic positions on most issues, and a public voting record that backs this up. The criticism of her from the left was mainly her hawkishness on foreign policy (the main reason she lost the primary to Obama) and some black liberals had started going after her for 90s era "tough on crime" laws that significantly increased the prison population, and some hard feelings from how she ran her campaign against Obama in 2008. Again, this is pretty ordinary politician stuff. The vast majority of the right's criticism of her was nonsensical conspiracy theories that nobody took seriously outside of talk radio and some Fox News pundits.

 

Then she announced she was running for president (actually very low key, she just released a video where she was barely even the focus) and this started to change. The left's criticism of her got really exaggerated and she turned into this red-handed racist Lady Macbeth who is the most corrupt political figure in American history, who is eager to sell everyone out to the banks and send every black person to prison. Bernie Sanders started gaining momentum on her and then because they really wanted to grasp onto any reason to vote against her, many of his supporters started co-opting right-wing talking points against her, so for the first time you had liberals talking about Benghazi, Vince Foster, murder conspiracies, other fake scandals, and obsessed with e-mails. The Wikileaks stuff just makes it worse, because almost nobody ever actually reads those in full context, so they will see whatever they want to see in them.

 

That's how we got to where we are now. I'm really tired of hearing about it, honestly. I'm tired of false equivalences made between Clinton and Trump. Clinton has thousands and thousands of words about policy you're free to scrutinize but are otherwise serious policy proposals, Trump might be the single worst presidential nominee this country has ever produced who doesn't even have actual plans for the very little policy he actually DOES propose. They're not the same. The choice isn't hard. Your choices are a run-of-the-mill Democrat and an insane person.

That's another pretty good post. My contention has been Trump stands no chance so the real issue is how bad is Hillary Clinton going to be? These were good posts. I can't argue them much at all. I give them all A's.

I will not end this thread blasting her. I do think the next couple weeks before the election could really be ugly. I'm not looking forward to it.

[StrangeSox]

Pence was outstanding this morning showing by far he's the best of the four folks involved in this race (Sorry Johnson and Stein, you ain't part of the four).

 

That said, how do you have proof of a negative? That puzzled me.

 

I wish the hosts would have told Pence that we don't care at all about policies, we only want to hear about Trump allegations and whether or not you can handle them correctly. They were quite rude.

 

At least I can say for Trump that he doesn't seem to have the visceral hatred for gay people that pence does.

[StrangeSox]

Rush Limbaugh is the same thing honestly. If you go back into his pre-right wing radio show, he was nothing like this.

That would have been the 80'S though, right? He's been the leading voice of movement conservatism for decades.

[Dick Allen]

Trump set himself up for all these women to come out of the woodwork, whether they are lying or not, he boasted about doing exactly what they are accusing him of doing.

 

If it wasn't such an embarrassment to our country, it actually would be very funny.

 

How can Trump ever be credible? It's one lie after another. He donated to 9/11 charities, except he didn't.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/nyc-audit-finds-n...topstories.html

 

 

He was boasting not too long ago how he would be maybe the first candidate who made money running for president. I think he may be one of the few who wind up totally ruined by doing it.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Dick Allen

[BigSqwert]

Is he insinuating what I think he is?

Trump:"I am standing at the podium and she (Hillary) walks in front of me. And believe me when she walks in front of me I wasn’t impressed."

 

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