White Sox Sign Mat Latos

[OmarComing25]

"Eldridge Cleaver: I feel like the White Sox have been trying to go from 90 losses to 90 wins for a few years now. Have they finally done enough to be in the wild-card discussion?

12:24

Dave Cameron: They still need another outfielder, a shortstop, and preferably one more starter. They’re up to .500ish, but they shouldn’t be done yet."

 

I was taken aback by the starter comment. Unless he believes Sox should just cut Danks, acquiring another starter makes no sense.

I also took it as he thinks Latos won't contribute much.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Everyone says Law hates the Sox and I think he's totally changed his tune since Hahn took over. Cameron on the other hand has never said anything positive about the Sox as far as my eyes have seen.

 

12:01

Joe: Who do you like better for the White Sox: Latos or Gallardo?

12:02

Dave Cameron: At the price Latos got, he’s a pretty clear pick, but I think it’s worth noting that in a market starved for pitching, no one else wanted the guy. I’m not a big believer in paying for chemistry, but when 29 teams decide they just don’t want this dude on their team, there’s a decent chance he’s a more destructive force than the typical “bad makeup” guy.

 

12:12

John: After seeing Latos only get $3 mil, what can you expect Lincecum to receive?

12:13

Dave Cameron: I’d bet he’ll get a low base/high incentive deal, maybe with some kind of vesting option for a second year. Latos’ price reflected Latos’ personality.

 

Eldridge Cleaver: I feel like the White Sox have been trying to go from 90 losses to 90 wins for a few years now. Have they finally done enough to be in the wild-card discussion?

12:24

Dave Cameron: They still need another outfielder, a shortstop, and preferably one more starter. They’re up to .500ish, but they shouldn’t be done yet.

 

 

He says good things about them during his weekly Fangraphs Audio podcast with Carson Cistulli.

[royoung]

When was this live chat done? After the Latos signing?

 

Yes. This afternoon.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yes. This afternoon.

 

Weird.

[bmags]

Were the Blue Jays?

 

Yes. They were in the playoffs and won their division.

[GreenSox]

I thought this was funny:

 

dbet: Could Justin Turner and Ryu get Chris Sale?

12:55

Dave Cameron: Yes. You could have one be the driver and the other be the kidnapper, and combined, they could put him in a van and bring him to Glendale. I think the White Sox would call the police, though.

That's a silly trade. But just a comment on Turner - talk about a late bloomer. He's dogmeat for years, gets traded at age 29 and explodes with the Dodgers.

 

Yes, Law likes Hahn.

[GGajewski18]

Great signing. Surprised we got him for peanuts.

 

As others have probably said, if he's bad or detrimental to the team, you can just cut him. If he's good and the Sox are bad, he can be a great trade chip. If he's good and the Sox are good, we can maybe talk about an extension or even offering a QO for him.

 

Win-win situation for me.

[Vance Law]

I think my point is being misunderstood - I am not mad he is around and I have no problem with Turner. I hope he turns into a stud with the Sox and he certainly has more upside than a AAAA pitcher. Its just a bit of curious move in hindsight, but I definitely don't think the Sox anticipated Latos falling into their lap for $3M.

 

It's necessary to sign guys like this for depth. People are often clamoring in the offseason for the Sox to sign a guy like Latos and 2 more for depth while ignoring the logic that there's no chance an ML caliber starter wants to sign to be the 7th guy on a depth chart. You need to sign guys like Turner (Paulino, Noesi, etc.) who can't get a guaranteed rotation spot anywhere on a big league team. If they could, they would.

[LDF]

It's necessary to sign guys like this for depth. People are often clamoring in the offseason for the Sox to sign a guy like Latos and 2 more for depth while ignoring the logic that there's no chance an ML caliber starter wants to sign to be the 7th guy on a depth chart. You need to sign guys like Turner (Paulino, Noesi, etc.) who can't get a guaranteed rotation spot anywhere on a big league team. If they could, they would.

 

i am really stoke on the signing of latos. this will really add to the sp pitching of the sox. # 1-4 will be solid, #5 Danks, then # 6 / 7 the sox have ej and turner, the wildcard will be beck. this has to be the strongest rotation i have seen since the 90's.

 

finish the shopping with jackson at cf or murph also a LH hitter OF'er. which i really like his hit vs so = to his avg, and use him as a platoon.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2016 by LDF

[Kyyle23]

i am really stoke on the signing of latos. this will really add to the sp pitching of the sox. # 1-4 will be solid, #5 Danks, then # 6 / 7 the sox have ej and turner, the wildcard will be beck. this has to be the strongest rotation i have seen since the 90's.

 

finish the shopping with jackson at cf or murph also a LH hitter OF'er. which i really like his hit vs so = to his avg, and use him as a platoon.

 

That 05 rotation wasn't too bad

[LDF]

That 05 rotation wasn't too bad

 

good enuf to win the WS and really hung in there for the Series games, against Hou.

 

05 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 16

Mark Buehrle ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Sale

Freddy Garcia ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Q

Jon Garland ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rodon

Jose Contreras ~~~~~~~~~~~ Latos

Orlando Hernandez ~~~~~~~~ Danks

 

but for me, i think it was the pen that did it for the 05 team. they were lights out.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

good enuf to win the WS and really hung in there for the Series games, against Hou.

 

05 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 16

Mark Buehrle ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Sale

Freddy Garcia ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Q

Jon Garland ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rodon

Jose Contreras ~~~~~~~~~~~ Latos

Orlando Hernandez ~~~~~~~~ Danks

 

but for me, i think it was the pen that did it for the 05 team. they were lights out.

 

For the Sabermetrically inclined.....

 

2005 SP WAR vs. 2016 SP *projected* WAR....

Buehrle (5.9) ------------ Sale (5.9)

Garcia (4.0) ---------Quintana (3.6)

Garland (3.5) ---------- Rodon (2.5)

Contreras (3.4) ---- Latos/Johnson (1.8)

Duque/BMac (1.8) ---Danks (0.8)

 

05 Staff (18.6)------2016 Staff (14.6)

 

So yeah, that 2005 staff was extremely balanced, full over above-average to nearly all-star level talent 1 through 4. Although I do feel those projections are light on Quintana and Rodon. I think both are 0.5 or better in 2016.

 

But, that was also the best staff in baseball in 2005. If you want to look at the latest WS Champion staffs...

 

2015 Royals - 7.5

2014 Giants - 8.7

2013 Red Sox - 12.4

2012 Giants - 11.3

2011 Cards - 12.5

 

So if you want to think about it this way, our 2016 projections, which I think are at least 1 WAR short, are still a few wins better than any recent champion. This is a championship caliber rotation. Just need the offense and defense to come through.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Chilihead90

[LDF]

For the Sabermetrically inclined.....

 

2005 SP WAR vs. 2016 SP *projected* WAR....

Buehrle (5.9) ------------ Sale (5.9)

Garcia (4.0) ---------Quintana (3.6)

Garland (3.5) ---------- Rodon (2.5)

Contreras (3.4) ---- Latos/Johnson (1.8)

Duque/BMac (1.8) ---Danks (0.8)

 

05 Staff (22.6)------2016 Staff (14.6)

 

So yeah, that 2005 staff was extremely balanced, full over above-average to nearly all-star level talent 1 through 4. Although I do feel those projections are light on Quintana and Rodon. I think both are 0.5 or better in 2016.

 

But, that was also the best staff in baseball in 2005. If you want to look at the latest WS Champion staffs...

 

2015 Royals - 7.5

2014 Giants - 8.7

2013 Red Sox - 12.4

2012 Giants - 11.3

2011 Cards - 12.5

 

So if you want to think about it this way, our 2016 projections, which I think are at least 1 WAR short, are still a few wins better than any recent champion. This is a championship caliber rotation. Just need the offense and defense to come through.

 

many... many thanks for that added perceptive, i'll be honest, i never thought of using the Sabermetrically stats.

 

anyone has the pen sabes comparison, esp the 05 squad???

[LDF]

i am really stoke on the signing of latos. this will really add to the sp pitching of the sox. # 1-4 will be solid, #5 Danks, then # 6 / 7 the sox have ej and turner, the wildcard will be beck. this has to be the strongest rotation i have seen since the 90's.

 

finish the shopping with jackson at cf or murph also a LH hitter OF'er. which i really like his hit vs so = to his avg, and use him as a platoon.

 

i will admit, using the sabe metric, i was amaze on how strong the 05 > WS team was in the pitching dept.

 

that 05 team was simply phenomenal......

[knightni]

Surprising to see Buehrle having the same WAR as Sale.

[LittleHurt05]

Surprising to see Buehrle having the same WAR as Sale.

 

Very surprising, although it turned out to be quite the outlier season for Buehrle

 

Buehrle top 4 WAR seasons:

5.9

4.5

4.3

4.3

 

Sale top 4 WAR seasons:

6.2

5.2

4.9

4.7

[MnSoxFan]

For the Sabermetrically inclined.....

 

2005 SP WAR vs. 2016 SP *projected* WAR....

Buehrle (5.9) ------------ Sale (5.9)

Garcia (4.0) ---------Quintana (3.6)

Garland (3.5) ---------- Rodon (2.5)

Contreras (3.4) ---- Latos/Johnson (1.8)

Duque/BMac (1.8) ---Danks (0.8)

 

05 Staff (22.6)------2016 Staff (14.6)

 

So yeah, that 2005 staff was extremely balanced, full over above-average to nearly all-star level talent 1 through 4. Although I do feel those projections are light on Quintana and Rodon. I think both are 0.5 or better in 2016.

 

But, that was also the best staff in baseball in 2005. If you want to look at the latest WS Champion staffs...

 

2015 Royals - 7.5

2014 Giants - 8.7

2013 Red Sox - 12.4

2012 Giants - 11.3

2011 Cards - 12.5

 

So if you want to think about it this way, our 2016 projections, which I think are at least 1 WAR short, are still a few wins better than any recent champion. This is a championship caliber rotation. Just need the offense and defense to come through.

 

Where did you get 22.6, those add up to 17.6 for those 5 starters for 2005? Maybe you used the stat for starts by all starters that year but you only use 5 starter projections for 2016.

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

Surprising to see Buehrle having the same WAR as Sale.

 

You also have to remember that WAR is a counting stat and Buehrle was a work horse in his prime. Sale's projection is for 210 innings. In 2005 Buehrle pitched 236.2 innings. Use Sale's projection and project that for an additional 26.2 innings and he jumps up to 6.6 WAR. Still comparable but a somewhat significant difference.

[knightni]

Where did you get 22.6, those add up to 17.6 for those 5 starters for 2005? Maybe you used the stat for starts by all starters that year but you only use 5 starter projections for 2016.

They add up to 18.6.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Where did you get 22.6, those add up to 17.6 for those 5 starters for 2005? Maybe you used the stat for starts by all starters that year but you only use 5 starter projections for 2016.

 

Not sure where he got it from unless he accidentally double counted Garcia. Those 6 starters he listed did, believe it or not, make all 162 starts for the Sox that year. So the combined WAR of Sox starters was 18.6 in 2005.

[Rowand44]

What I've learned from this page is that Soxtalk is bad at math

[hi8is]

This is dope...

Whoever does the new photoshop work at mlbtr is really talented.

 

[GGajewski18]

This is dope...

Whoever does the new photoshop work at mlbtr is really talented.

 

 

He looks good in a Sox uni

[hi8is]

He looks good in a Sox uni

Yea - Bobby Jenks looks pretty badass after losing all that weight. Looks younger in this picture too. Hum.

[3GamesToLove]

This is dope...

Whoever does the new photoshop work at mlbtr is really talented.

 

 

They must've been a global change. At first I thought they just kept the pants, but those are road pants, at Marlins Park. He didn't pitch in Miami after the trade to the Dodgers...unless this is from another year.