Sox are so dysfuctional. They are gonna let Shields go out turn after turn and pitch way worse than Erik J would have. Dumb. Erik never had a fair chance here. Shields blows. He's worse than Danks.

Hopefully Shields struggles are as Pedro said.. Mechanics issues.. Hope coop can fix em

Sox are so dysfuctional. They are gonna let Shields go out turn after turn and pitch way worse than Erik J would have. Dumb. Erik never had a fair chance here. Shields blows. He's worse than Danks.

 

I just could never understand why they couldn't just slot EJ as the #5 for a full season and just take our lumps with him and see if he can show any improvement. Never had more than 5 starts in any season.

Sox are so dysfuctional. They are gonna let Shields go out turn after turn and pitch way worse than Erik J would have. Dumb. Erik never had a fair chance here. Shields blows. He's worse than Danks.

But, he can't be bad. He was on the Royals.

Sox are so dysfuctional. They are gonna let Shields go out turn after turn and pitch way worse than Erik J would have. Dumb. Erik never had a fair chance here. Shields blows. He's worse than Danks.

 

No way this front office will DFA him after they just traded for him. Their egos are way too big for that. If he continues to be worse than Danks they will probably stick him on the 60 day DL and try again next year.

Edited June 14, 20169 yr by soxforlife05

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2016/6/14...jols-brad-lidge

 

Did Bartolo Colon break James Shields?

 

Btw, Shields once finished Top 3 in the Cy Young voting, so that's one of the reasons for his label. Of course, so did Dallas Keuchel, and he's definitely no ace so far this season, and barely throwing 88-90 when I've seen him.

No way this front office will DFA him after they just traded for him. Their egos are way too big for that. If he continues to be worse than Danks they will probably stick him on the 60 day DL and try again next year.

 

No one in MLB is DFA'ing a pitcher they just traded for after two starts. I can't even describe how ridiculous that diea is.

They don't give up on guys like Beckham, Viciedo and Jared Mitchell until at least 2 years too late...you can forget about Shields going anywhere.

 

There has to be a mechanical or tipping pitches issue in there somewhere. They'll figure it out eventually.

They don't give up on guys like Beckham, Viciedo and Jared Mitchell until at least 2 years too late...you can forget about Shields going anywhere.

 

There has to be a mechanical or tipping pitches issue in there somewhere. They'll figure it out eventually.

 

Yeah, none of those guys is even in a remotely close to the same situation. It is a nice list of random names though.

They don't give up on guys like Beckham, Viciedo and Jared Mitchell until at least 2 years too late...you can forget about Shields going anywhere.

 

There has to be a mechanical or tipping pitches issue in there somewhere. They'll figure it out eventually.

 

What the absolute hell does Jared Mitchell have to do with anything?

What the absolute hell does Jared Mitchell have to do with anything?

No kidding. How does he fit in with those two?

They don't give up on guys like Beckham, Viciedo and Jared Mitchell until at least 2 years too late...you can forget about Shields going anywhere.

 

There has to be a mechanical or tipping pitches issue in there somewhere. They'll figure it out eventually.

 

What?

I just could never understand why they couldn't just slot EJ as the #5 for a full season and just take our lumps with him and see if he can show any improvement. Never had more than 5 starts in any season.

It wasn't going to happen.

EJ was not a Cooper guy. Note Cooper gave Noesi more opportunity- much more - than EJ.

And White Sox pitching is Cooper's world.

It wasn't going to happen.

EJ was not a Cooper guy. Note Cooper gave Noesi more opportunity- much more - than EJ.

And White Sox pitching is Cooper's world.

 

But the strange thing about that when they dumpster dive is none of those "Cooper guys" that ended up failing have overpowering stuff either. From this year alone, Miguel Gonzalez and Latos. Noesi as you noted. And others.

Edited June 15, 20169 yr by soxforlife05

For $10 million a year I expected more than the 8+ ERA he's putting up... there is some ground in between ace and 8+ era

 

Chris Sale's last 4 starts: 6.75 ERA, 1.90 WHIP, .351/.402/.557/.959 splits against (still with a .420 BABIP, which is obviously entirely unsustainable)

 

You are making judgment calls based on 2 starts. Step off the ledge and relax.

 

Sox are so dysfuctional. They are gonna let Shields go out turn after turn and pitch way worse than Erik J would have. Dumb. Erik never had a fair chance here. Shields blows. He's worse than Danks.

 

Erik Johnson started 19 games for the White Sox at the major league level, put up a 4.73 ERA, a 5.82 FIP, a 5.01 xFIP, a league average strikeout rate (7 K/9), a below average walk rate (4.5 BB/9), and his fastball velocity maxed out at 92, in 2013, in 5 starts. If the White Sox miss Erik Johnson that badly, they can probably trade for Dylan Axelrod.

 

And he never got a fair chance.

 

No, Greg.

Erik Johnson started 19 games for the White Sox at the major league level, put up a 4.73 ERA, a 5.82 FIP, a 5.01 xFIP, a league average strikeout rate (7 K/9), a below average walk rate (4.5 BB/9), and his fastball velocity maxed out at 92, in 2013, in 5 starts. If the White Sox miss Erik Johnson that badly, they can probably trade for Dylan Axelrod.

 

And he never got a fair chance.

 

No, Greg.

 

Shields 5.45 ERA looks so much better

 

Those starts were across 3 seasons. And it's not like our guy who replaced him (Danks) was any better. But we'll trot guys like Shields out there in their age 36-37 season just because they are paid the most. So basically, to have any prayer of contention in the coming years, Fulmer will need to come up and be a #3/4 caliber guy from day one.

 

The question is, if we can't afford to cut loose bad players who are paid a lot why are we aggressively trading for wild cards with a financial commitment lasting 2-3 seasons? Organizational philosophy here is terrible.

Edited June 15, 20169 yr by soxforlife05

This is going to be Edwin Jackson/Daniel Hudson all over again, isn't it?

Not really...because Erik Johnson doesn't have 1/2 of Daniel Hudson's talent.

 

Clayton Richard and Eric Stults have looked serviceable as starters in SD. Look at Drew Pomeranz this year, compared to what he did in Colorado or Cleveland.

Not really...because Erik Johnson doesn't have 1/2 of Daniel Hudson's talent.

 

Clayton Richard and Eric Stults have looked serviceable as starters in SD. Look at Drew Pomeranz this year, compared to what he did in Colorado or Cleveland.

I mean in the sense that it gets dragged up over and over through the years left on Shields' contract while he's on the Sox.

 

Especially if Johnson is even remotely successful.

Not really...because Erik Johnson doesn't have 1/2 of Daniel Hudson's talent.

 

Clayton Richard and Eric Stults have looked serviceable as starters in SD. Look at Drew Pomeranz this year, compared to what he did in Colorado or Cleveland.

 

Where are both of them now? They had flash in the pan seasons in SD and now they both are just journeyman pitchers. Erik Johnson isnt gonna make us regret trading him

This is going to be Edwin Jackson/Daniel Hudson all over again, isn't it?

 

 

No. The Sox thought Daniel Hudson was going to get hurt and traded him. The problem is, they could have traded him for something better (even though EJax was very good here). Erik Johnson had pretty much no value.

That was kinda the point. Even journeymen/relievers can look successful, at least temporarily, in SD.

 

The regret won't be with parting with Erik Johnson, but about the money remaining committed to Shields if he doesn't start turning things around here pretty quickly.

 

That negative initial impression will be hard to shake for Sox fans...not unlike Dunn's 2011 season, or Melky last year, or Rios when we first claimed him.

 

So it won't be what Johnson does, but more if Latos/Danks could have outperformed what Shields gave us, since we already had $15-20 million invested into them.

Where are both of them now? They had flash in the pan seasons in SD and now they both are just journeyman pitchers. Erik Johnson isnt gonna make us regret trading him

But James Shields will likely make us regret trading for James Shields and his 2.5 year encumbrance.

Erik Johnson won't be a top of the rotation guy, nor probably a mid., but he can provide competent back-end performance. Sox will be lucky if Shields provides that

 

Sox seem to find little value in back end young pitchers or position players their eagle-eyes for talent deem "utility"...yet they repeatedly trade or otherwise acquire veterans who can't even provide that.

No. The Sox thought Daniel Hudson was going to get hurt and traded him. The problem is, they could have traded him for something better (even though EJax was very good here). Erik Johnson had pretty much no value.

 

If the White Sox were concerned about his mechanics and ready to trade him after just 3 starts...what's to say that other GM's wouldn't have identified the same issue/s (mechanics/injury risk) with him, or heard whispers around the batting cage that Cooper was frustrated and ready to cut bait, etc.?

 

It's not like it's always a slam dunk that you can trade a top prospect for an established veteran major league pitcher with that kind of talent...Jackson had stretches of success in LA, TB and especially with the Tigers.