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Jose Abreu

Sox fire Matt Lisle/Matt Lisle quits (?)

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1 minute ago, southsideirish71 said:

How many coaches get canned mid season.   

Midseason? He's not a MLB coach.

He didn't even have a seasonally directed role. It's not as if he's the hitting coach of a particular team. He's an advisor basically.

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Just now, fathom said:

Agreed, but the hiring of Lisle was “proof” the Sox were trying to get out of the Stone Age.  It’s just another occurrence that seems to keep things status quo instead of progressing forward

Maybe. Or maybe Lisle wanted more money and a bigger position. 

He was making real good money as a private instructor (there's a lot of money in that at the tippy top) and if the Sox job took up time and wasn't enough status I could see him moving on 

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6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No one here has any idea what Lisle did, why he was let go or etc. 

The sad thing is that the possibility of Lisle getting fired for liking an article about the Sox bunting too much is even in question with this organization.  If true, talk about an awfully sad and archaic look.

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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25 minutes ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said:

Maybe it is that.  Could be that lisle tangled with more old school coaches who didn't like to be told how to do their job by a rookie. Many baseball lifers have a big problem with guys like lisle, ochart or albert with no pro experience comining in and telling them how to do their job.

Maybe in the sox org the traditionalists with tenure still have more power unlike the astros who fire old school coaches who don't comply.

But then again maybe it was something else, I think this Johansen guy is still there so maybe it just didn't work with lisle. I read rumors his last college job didn't go well either, some of those "nerd coaches" are not easy to work with because they know that they are smart and let the old school guys feel it (kinda a bit arrogant sheldon cooper style, kyle boddy comes off like this too at least online).

He was only at Missouri for like a month before Sox hires him

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I just looked it up and he was only at Missouri for 5 months and and at South Carolina for a year.  Its starting to seem like a pattern where he doesn't stay long

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The idea that the Sox hired him because of his analytical background and then changed their minds because they realized he was too progressive for their caveman ways doesn’t make any sense.

There’s a million reasons why he might have been fired/quit.

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4 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

The idea that the Sox hired him because of his analytical background and then changed their minds because they realized he was too progressive for their caveman ways doesn’t make any sense.

There’s a million reasons why he might have been fired/quit.

Sure it does. That doesn't mean it's right, but there's a hundred ways where that could be the reality.

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachlisle/

Scoreboard operator in Oakland for 17 years?

He was the hitting analytics instructor for the Sox, btw.

 

https://thehittingvault.com/about/

Has moved around a lot...just reading between the lines, he seems to like being the center of attention and self-promotion, which doesn’t fit the Sox style.  That said, they should have known that.  And if they weren’t willing to make changes in the way they teach hitting systemically across the system, why bring him in? 

Hitting Coach - University of Missouri

Assistant Coach - South Carolina

Head Coach – Menlo College

Assistant Coach – Santa Clara University

Assistant Coach – Cal State University – East Bay

Head Coach – Gallaudet University

Assistant Coach – University of Oregon

Head Coach – College Park HS (DVAL Coach of the Year)

Associate Scout – Detroit Tigers

Professional Hitting Instructor (20+ years)

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11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Sure it does. That doesn't mean it's right, but there's a hundred ways where that could be the reality.

So in your scenario - they hire a guy with an analytical background specifically because he is an analytical background.  He is a model employee.  He's doing everything they ask of him.  He's getting results.  He gets along with players.  He gets along with other coaches and staff.  Then one day Jerry/Kenny/Hahn wakes up and decides they want to fire him because he still possesses the quality that was the main reason they hired him?

I'd put my money on him being fired (if he got fired) for the reason most people get fired.  They either underperform, they pissed someone off, they always showed up late, they showed up drunk, they slept with someone's wife, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

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2 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

So in your scenario - they hire a guy with an analytical background specifically because he is an analytical background.  He is a model employee.  He's doing everything they ask of him.  He's getting results.  He gets along with players.  He gets along with other coaches and staff.  Then one day Jerry/Kenny/Hahn wakes up and decides they want to fire him because he still possesses the quality that was the main reason they hired him?

I'd put my money on him being fired (if he got fired) for the reason most people get fired.  They either underperform, they pissed someone off, they always showed up late, they showed up drunk, they slept with someone's wife, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

Or they like a tweet suggesting the whole organization’s approach is garbage and they should be the hitting coach.

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6 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

So in your scenario - they hire a guy with an analytical background specifically because he is an analytical background.  He is a model employee.  He's doing everything they ask of him.  He's getting results.  He gets along with players.  He gets along with other coaches and staff.  Then one day Jerry/Kenny/Hahn wakes up and decides they want to fire him because he still possesses the quality that was the main reason they hired him?

I'd put my money on him being fired (if he got fired) for the reason most people get fired.  They either underperform, they pissed someone off, they always showed up late, they showed up drunk, they slept with someone's wife, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

Your first paragraph is one possible option - they changed their minds. They got feedback from analytics that said they were doing things wrong, and regardless of how it was presented their reaction was to close ranks and remove the person who gave them that feedback because they don't like it. In that case, they have decided that toeing the company line is more important than analytics, because they only want to hear that they are doing things right and will fire anyone who isn't a yes-man.

You can obviously have a number of versions of that - maybe there were specific people who he clashed with by pushing those perspectives (maybe Renteria's F*** off was aimed square at him), maybe he wasn't gentle in how he pushed his perspective and that led to clashes, and sure maybe there was something else and we'll hear tomorrow about the terrible thing he did that cost him his job for other reasons. But you can't just scoff at it and say it's impossible that he got fired for doing his job based on the information we have right now, because sometimes poorly run companies want to fill themselves with yes-men and fire anyone who isn't. 

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10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Your first paragraph is one possible option - they changed their minds. They got feedback from analytics that said they were doing things wrong, and regardless of how it was presented their reaction was to close ranks and remove the person who gave them that feedback because they don't like it. In that case, they have decided that toeing the company line is more important than analytics, because they only want to hear that they are doing things right and will fire anyone who isn't a yes-man.

You can obviously have a number of versions of that - maybe there were specific people who he clashed with by pushing those perspectives (maybe Renteria's F*** off was aimed square at him), maybe he wasn't gentle in how he pushed his perspective and that led to clashes, and sure maybe there was something else and we'll hear tomorrow about the terrible thing he did that cost him his job for other reasons. But you can't just scoff at it and say it's impossible that he got fired for doing his job based on the information we have right now, because sometimes poorly run companies want to fill themselves with yes-men and fire anyone who isn't. 

If they fired him because he couldn't work with others and had poor communications skills that led to clashes, I don't think that's evidence of them being backwards.

A roving hitting instructor who has never been employed by a major league team and who no one really knows much about is (maybe) let go and the reaction of the posters here (who have no idea about his effectiveness or any details) is to imply Jerry Reinsdorf needs to die and to assume the guy (who previously never had a MLB job) was fired because he was too smart? Too good? 

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6 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

If they fired him because he couldn't work with others and had poor communications skills that led to clashes, I don't think that's evidence of them being backwards.

A roving hitting instructor who has never been employed by a major league team and who no one really knows much about is (maybe) let go and the reaction of the posters here (who have no idea about his effectiveness or any details) is to imply Jerry Reinsdorf needs to die and to assume the guy (who previously never had a MLB job) was fired because he was too smart? Too good? 

 All of those are possible and I admitted as such in my post. That's not what provoked my post responding to you. What drove it was that you said you could absolutely rule out that he was fired because they expected he would tell them they were doing everything right and he was fired when he didn't produce an analysis saying that. It "Doesn't make any sense", your words. You didn't bother replying to the paragraph where I explained how that possibility was one possible option, because your initial blanket statement that it "Doesn't make any sense" is a strong absolute that you can't back up. Suggesting all the other things it could be like you're doing in this post - any of them could be true and I acknowledged that, but listing those isn't what is necessary to support your blanket statement that one option is impossible. You're distracting right now because you came down hard in a way you can't back up.

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This is a team that employs one of the worst managers in baseball.  Why are people surprised about the ridiculous possibilities that could have led to Lisle’s exit?

Edited by Moan4Yoan

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1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

This is a team that employs one of the worst managers in baseball.  Why are people surprised about the ridiculous possibilities that could have led to Lisle’s exit?

And have become absurdly concerned about what is said on social media

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

 All of those are possible and I admitted as such in my post. That's not what provoked my post responding to you. What drove it was that you said you could absolutely rule out that he was fired because they expected he would tell them they were doing everything right and he was fired when he didn't produce an analysis saying that. It "Doesn't make any sense", your words. You didn't bother replying to the paragraph where I explained how that possibility was one possible option, because your initial blanket statement that it "Doesn't make any sense" is a strong absolute that you can't back up. Suggesting all the other things it could be like you're doing in this post - any of them could be true, but that isn't what is necessary to support your blanket statement that one option is impossible. You're distracting right now because you came down hard in a way you can't back up.

What are you talking about?  I never used an "absolute."  I said that explanation makes no sense.  Is it possible?  Sure.  I  think other run of the mill explanations are more likely.

How am I distracting?  Because I brought up the fact that a random dude no one knows anything about (and who has had no other MLB teams hire him) lost his job and that motivated posters to wish another human being died earlier?

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1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

It shouldn't matter if they're right, but that's not how it works in the real world.

Sometimes you have to be a dick to get your point across and people have too fragile of an ego to ever admit that they are wrong. 

Nothing actually works like it's supposed to. People would rather fire a valuable employee than admit that they are wrong. Sad. 

I thought you were going to keep your personal stuff out of these threads?

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1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I thought you were going to keep your personal stuff out of these threads?

This has nothing to do with my personal stuff. Jeez I was referring to the situation here. Why the fuck do all of you guys think I'm bringing up my personal shit here? This is an educated guess on to what I think happened here. Last week when we were talking Analytics you guys thought the same thing. This had nothing to do with that. 

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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

This has nothing to do with my personal stuff. Jeez I was referring to the situation here. Why the fuck do all of you guys think I'm bringing up my personal shit here? This is an educated guess on to what I think happened here. Last week when we were talking Analytics you guys thought the same thing. This had nothing to do with that. 

Because you literally bring up your shit anytime an employee/employer matter is mentioned.  And I’m not actually counting the Analytics discussion.

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10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I thought you were going to keep your personal stuff out of these threads?

This is true in the corporate world too.  I see it all the time.

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9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Because you literally bring up your shit anytime an employee/employer matter is mentioned.  And I’m not actually counting the Analytics discussion.

I'm not bringing up "my shit" 

I have my opinions about the employer/employee relationship and I'd have those thoughts regardless of my personal experiences. My personal experiences have been few and far between, so they really don't matter. Everything that shapes my opinion on the matter comes from other people's experiences. 

Just because you people accept what's going on, doesn't mean that it's ok or acceptable. 

I truly believe that a company has a larger societal obligation than solely to generate as much profit as possible. If you disagree that's fine, but you're not changing my mind anytime soon and I'd prefer not to re-litigate it. I take that perspective into these discussions. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The amount of hot takes in this thread is wild.  We have no facts whatsoever and people are already crafting conspiracy theories.

We have front office people that yell at the fans.  Again, why is the possibility all that surprising?

Edited by Moan4Yoan
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