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2020 Election Thoughts

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3 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Everybody is racist now a days apparently. We better cancel him.

Hate on Bill all you want, but he's right. There's plenty of "simpletons" that agree with him. The "holier than thou" attitude shown in your post is a big turn off to those simpletons.

I am entitled to my opinion on Maher, holier than thou as it may be. There is just a plain meanness to him, and we have too much of that in our current political debate. There are many times when I agree with him, but I just can't stand him personally. He has a horse shit attitude toward women and Muslims. Of course, no one is going to cancel him. There area many out there who are even worse than him, and they're doing just fine. Meanwhile, I feel fine not watching or listening to him.

 

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Defund was a cry of desperation from the BLM movement to get everyone's attention. It is the view of outsiders. 

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7 minutes ago, pcq said:

Defund was a cry of desperation from the BLM movement to get everyone's attention. It is the view of outsiders. 

The problem has been in the making for the Democrats for decades.

In 1968, anti-war activists came to protest the Democratic National Convention. Riots ensued and blame was placed both on the police and the protestors. In the end, the Democrats were tied to all of the violence. For years, the Democrats were viewed as weak on crime and weak on national defense. In the short run, it led to Richard Nixon, a thug who condoned and approved of violence against political opponents. Sound familiar? Anyway, part of this happened because the Democrats wanted to protect their right flank by fighting an ill-advised and tragic war in Vietnam. 

Now, with the BLM, the Democrats got tied to the looting and violence during the protests. As with the Vietnam, systemic racism is a complicated issue. But white people got scared and voted Republican.

The Democrats have been a party looking for an identity for over 50 years. Imply that they are socialist and they run like hell. They don't know how to tackle law-and-order issues. They just don't know how to define the political landscape. They let the media and GOP define them instead.

Liberal? Obama and Biden are centralists. The Democrats don't want to be called liberal. They actually might have to admit they're Democrats.

 

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44 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

I am entitled to my opinion on Maher, holier than thou as it may be. There is just a plain meanness to him, and we have too much of that in our current political debate. There are many times when I agree with him, but I just can't stand him personally. He has a horse shit attitude toward women and Muslims. Of course, no one is going to cancel him. There area many out there who are even worse than him, and they're doing just fine. Meanwhile, I feel fine not watching or listening to him.

 

I can't speak to his opinion on women. I agree with him on Islam. I see no issue with calling a spade a spade. 

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2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

So is the strategy to discredit the election results to drive out their voters in January, or are they just being assholes about losing that state to Biden?

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

The problem has been in the making for the Democrats for decades.

In 1968, anti-war activists came to protest the Democratic National Convention. Riots ensued and blame was placed both on the police and the protestors. In the end, the Democrats were tied to all of the violence. For years, the Democrats were viewed as weak on crime and weak on national defense. In the short run, it led to Richard Nixon, a thug who condoned and approved of violence against political opponents. Sound familiar? Anyway, part of this happened because the Democrats wanted to protect their right flank by fighting an ill-advised and tragic war in Vietnam. 

Now, with the BLM, the Democrats got tied to the looting and violence during the protests. As with the Vietnam, systemic racism is a complicated issue. But white people got scared and voted Republican.

The Democrats have been a party looking for an identity for over 50 years. Imply that they are socialist and they run like hell. They don't know how to tackle law-and-order issues. They just don't know how to define the political landscape. They let the media and GOP define them instead.

Liberal? Obama and Biden are centralists. The Democrats don't want to be called liberal. They actually might have to admit they're Democrats.

 

They were tied to the looting and BLM even though there isn’t involvement there. I don’t even know if the so called squad and progressives came up with legislation for defunding police or if it was something BLM raised and a progressive commented on it. White people may have voted Republican, but eventually thorny issues will need to be dealt with, something compromise should be able to help with in the Congress.
 

Like I said to Greg, there was a fairly interesting podcast on “The Daily” that had an AOC interview and a Conor Lamb interview. It speaks to some of the issues the Democratic Party is going to have to grapple with. 

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1 hour ago, The Beast said:

So is the strategy to discredit the election results to drive out their voters in January, or are they just being assholes about losing that state to Biden?

They were tied to the looting and BLM even though there isn’t involvement there. I don’t even know if the so called squad and progressives came up with legislation for defunding police or if it was something BLM raised and a progressive commented on it. White people may have voted Republican, but eventually thorny issues will need to be dealt with, something compromise should be able to help with in the Congress.
 

Like I said to Greg, there was a fairly interesting podcast on “The Daily” that had an AOC interview and a Conor Lamb interview. It speaks to some of the issues the Democratic Party is going to have to grapple with. 

The President is making money off of this and is setting up for 2024.

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Now comes my own failure, and the failure of the people with labels just like me. I am a Bible-believing Christian minister, I am blue collar, and I have been a committed member of the working-class poor most of my life. Many of my people support Trump and will continue in four years to support the next Trump type if the Democratic Party doesn't start changing its approach. By the way, the Trump type is here to stay. Trump brought in more votes than any other Republican ever — the Republicans aren't just going to wash their hands of him now. That's just a pipe dream of the left. The true path to defeating Trumpism forever lies within the blue-collar, working-class poor of this country. 

If I had any political network besides a bunch of package handlers at FedEx I would start a new political party called the Blue Collar Party, the leaders of which would only be front-line workers around this great country. The laborers, the line workers, the waitresses, the janitors, the shovel holders and anyone else suffering from holding up this country. These people understand this country more than any reporter, politician or entertainer with a voice and a big salary ever could. The best part of that blue-collar fight is that it empowers all races, since class doesn't have a color. Naturally enough, providing upward mobility to the working-class poor will predominantly bring hope to many people of color and will potentially show a new sense of unity that could break down some of the barriers between races.  

I have worked side by side with the working-class poor who love Trump, and I promise you there is hope in reaching them. Hell, Obama reached them a little, and Bernie Sanders did more so. Even Bill Clinton did, but for the most part they feel forgotten by the Democratic Party. In spite of all this, the liberal media simply wants to explain away half the country as racist, sexist and ignorant voters. God forbid the vote they gave for Trump had a genuine purpose. I admit it may have been a flawed purpose but it's one that needs to be addressed before the country completely loses sight of itself. 

https://www.yahoo.com/now/understanding-trump-voters-heres-why-110001165.html

 

Along with continuing to battle for and chipping away at some of the religious centrists/moderates, this idea makes a lot of sense.

Doing it is another matter altogether. 

Cheri Bustos, who had a REALLY difficult time defending her NW Illinois district from a challenge and Klobuchar (like her message more than her personally) and Buttigieg are all in the right "territory" but it has to be an emotional call like a Reagan or Trump...it can't be confused for technocratic, McKinsey & Co. consulting reports in terms of socioeconomic arguments.  It requires emotion and charisma.

Edited by caulfield12

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4 hours ago, The Beast said:

So is the strategy to discredit the election results to drive out their voters in January, or are they just being assholes about losing that state to Biden?

They were tied to the looting and BLM even though there isn’t involvement there. I don’t even know if the so called squad and progressives came up with legislation for defunding police or if it was something BLM raised and a progressive commented on it. White people may have voted Republican, but eventually thorny issues will need to be dealt with, something compromise should be able to help with in the Congress.
 

Like I said to Greg, there was a fairly interesting podcast on “The Daily” that had an AOC interview and a Conor Lamb interview. It speaks to some of the issues the Democratic Party is going to have to grapple with. 

The looting and $2B of property destruction were pulling in one direction. Not the BLM alone, that has merit by itself, even if some people join the two.  The president's handling of COVID was pulling in the other direction.  That's the story of this election.  It also explains why close House races went so Republican.  They weren't burdened by a quarter million dead Americans on their watch.

Disagree?  Who was elected president in the vote after the property destruction following the assassination of Dr. King?

Makes me want to believe reports of some violence being started by agents from the other side embedding themselves with the rioters.  Democrats need to focus on the real reason they lost House seats and not attribute it to a failure to connect with one voting block or another.

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If the GOP was smart, they would cut ties with Trump.  But, that's not going to happen.  He's going to be tweeting and holding rallies for the next four years, and barring health issues he'll be one of the favorites for the GOP nomination in 2024.

The party is unrecognizable compared to when John McCain ran against Obama.

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24 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

If the GOP was smart, they would cut ties with Trump.  But, that's not going to happen.  He's going to be tweeting and holding rallies for the next four years, and barring health issues he'll be one of the favorites for the GOP nomination in 2024.

The party is unrecognizable compared to when John McCain ran against Obama.

Why?  Trump pulled in more votes than any other Republican candidate.  He's polarizing to the extreme but if Biden has a lackluster three years I'd run Trump back out there.  I don't see another GOP star of that magnitude.  

If the Dems were smart they would hold a couple years of Hillary Clinton style hearings about Trump.  Just get the public so tired of hearing his name the sway votes in battleground states will stay away. 

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7 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Why?  Trump pulled in more votes than any other Republican candidate.  He's polarizing to the extreme but if Biden has a lackluster three years I'd run Trump back out there.  I don't see another GOP star of that magnitude.  

If the Dems were smart they would hold a couple years of Hillary Clinton style hearings about Trump.  Just get the public so tired of hearing his name the sway votes in battleground states will stay away. 

Good point.  I guess looking at it from the other side, I can't see why mainstream Republicans follow Trump.  I know he has his base, but there's another 25% to 30% of the population that has latched onto him because he is/was the Republican president.  Very few people, voters and other politicians alike, pushed back and said, "This isn't what we stand for."

Is this the future of politics in a two-party system?  Do the Democrats need a wildly liberal candidate to match what Trump is?  Would a person like that get the same buy-in that Trump has?

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43 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Why?  Trump pulled in more votes than any other Republican candidate.  He's polarizing to the extreme but if Biden has a lackluster three years I'd run Trump back out there.  I don't see another GOP star of that magnitude.  

If the Dems were smart they would hold a couple years of Hillary Clinton style hearings about Trump.  Just get the public so tired of hearing his name the sway votes in battleground states will stay away. 

He also pulled in more votes against than any other candidate. As a dem, I hope he runs again. It won't be about Biden, although Biden has said he is a one termer, it will be anti Trump. The craziness has gotten to people. The grift will be exposed. He will probably spend the rest of his life defending himself in court, golfing and having rallies as a fake president to pay for it all. 

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38 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He also pulled in more votes against than any other candidate. As a dem, I hope he runs again. It won't be about Biden, although Biden has said he is a one termer, it will be anti Trump. The craziness has gotten to people. The grift will be exposed. He will probably spend the rest of his life defending himself in court, golfing and having rallies as a fake president to pay for it all. 

You are right about him attracting anti-Trump votes. At this point, Biden has picked up over 12,000,000 votes that Hillary Clinton. Yes, the Trump votes increased as well, but in 2016 he lost by almost 3,000,000. This year that margin is over 5,000,000. For all his star power, Trump has lost the popular vote two times in a row and saw Georgia turn blue for the first time in almost 30 years.  While the Dems still had a disappointing election cycle, they still did very well in 2018 and won some down ballot races before that. There's nothing like Trump to stir up the base.

There is another reason for the GOP to dump Trump: He is a dangerous incompetent.

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14 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

I can't speak to his opinion on women. I agree with him on Islam. I see no issue with calling a spade a spade. 

There was a Texas case where a 12-year old Muslim boy built a wooden clock as part of school project. When he brought it into school, he was suspected of bringing in a bomb. The clock was taken apart and, of course, there was no bomb. Despite this, the cops were called and the kid was hassled by an officer. Maher was all in favor of this. No one's rights should be violated like this. This is not calling a spade a spade.  And usually, school terrorist acts in the form of shootings are done by white Christians. 

Bill Maher. What a guy.

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14 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

I can't speak to his opinion on women. I agree with him on Islam. I see no issue with calling a spade a spade. 

That's pretty awful.   You are calling a uno card a spade 

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29 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

There was a Texas case where a 12-year old Muslim boy built a wooden clock as part of school project. When he brought it into school, he was suspected of bringing in a bomb. The clock was taken apart and, of course, there was no bomb. Despite this, the cops were called and the kid was hassled by an officer. Maher was all in favor of this. No one's rights should be violated like this. This is not calling a spade a spade.  And usually, school terrorist acts in the form of shootings are done by white Christians. 

Bill Maher. What a guy.

Oh, nice. I love the “stereotypes are bad unless they’re my preferred stereotypes!” crowd. I knew this thread was missing something.

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2 hours ago, hogan873 said:

Good point.  I guess looking at it from the other side, I can't see why mainstream Republicans follow Trump.  I know he has his base, but there's another 25% to 30% of the population that has latched onto him because he is/was the Republican president.  Very few people, voters and other politicians alike, pushed back and said, "This isn't what we stand for."

Is this the future of politics in a two-party system?  Do the Democrats need a wildly liberal candidate to match what Trump is?  Would a person like that get the same buy-in that Trump has?

There’s a lot that don’t. Bill Kristol, David French, Jonah Goldberg, John Podhoretz never did. Ben Shapiro didn’t in 2016 (although I don’t know where he’s gone since, I don’t pay much attention to him). Max Boot and Jennifer Rubin never did although I hardly see how they’re even still Republicans at all. All of these have lots of readers and listeners who have followed them into the Never Trump movement. RVAT has tons of subscribers and video producers, as well.

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1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

There was a Texas case where a 12-year old Muslim boy built a wooden clock as part of school project. When he brought it into school, he was suspected of bringing in a bomb. The clock was taken apart and, of course, there was no bomb. Despite this, the cops were called and the kid was hassled by an officer. Maher was all in favor of this. No one's rights should be violated like this. This is not calling a spade a spade.  And usually, school terrorist acts in the form of shootings are done by white Christians. 

Bill Maher. What a guy.

There is nothing wrong with calling out a religion when there are major issues associated with it. France has been dealing with the issues associated with said religion for the past decade. They are finally fed up with it. The notion that we can't call out the problems with these religions is ridiculous.

I'm not associated with any religion FYI.

Edited by Yearnin' for Yermin

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David Frum wrote this a few years back, and I think we've seen substantial evidence in favor of it over the years and especially over the last couple of weeks:

 

Quote

 If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.

 

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1 hour ago, Danny Dravot said:

Oh, nice. I love the “stereotypes are bad unless they’re my preferred stereotypes!” crowd. I knew this thread was missing something.

It's much more accepted to bash the major religion in our country (Christianity) than it is to bash other religions, for whatever reason. That's the glory of freedom of speech, though. 

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2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

He also pulled in more votes against than any other candidate. As a dem, I hope he runs again. It won't be about Biden, although Biden has said he is a one termer, it will be anti Trump. The craziness has gotten to people. The grift will be exposed. He will probably spend the rest of his life defending himself in court, golfing and having rallies as a fake president to pay for it all. 

Biden never publicly declared that he is a one term president.  At least I can't find a quote on it.  If he is one, that leaves Harris against Trump or whomever.  Trump may be a vulgar narcissistic boor but once you get beyond that, he is serves the Republican cause very well. (Not meant in a negative sense)

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