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South Side Hit Men

Andrew Vaughn Article - 3B/OF and Opening Day considerations

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4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I guess as usual you have no real argument to make so you do your usual guffaw defense mechanism.  Andrew Vaughn is going to be in Birmingham until at least late June.  There isn't a shred of evidence he's ready to contribute to a contending MLB team.

Except everything from last year we didn’t see...

We heard Madrigal wasn’t close to ready after similar struggles his draft year.  Why would Vaughn, arguably a more polished hitter, not be capable of following the same timeline of 1 1/2 seasons before recall?

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9 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Wanna ban bet?  
He literally played in instrucs all last year.  Which would have been a higher equivalent than AA anyways.  And by all accounts, excelled there.  

 

Let's do a ban bet.  I'll go the under on June 15th for when he is called up.

Maybe if I was 21 like in 2005 when I created my account ;-).  I'm too old for that shit man.  And June 15th is moving the goalpost already in your favor.  We'll just have to wait and see.

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16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The problem with saying there’s a lack of evidence also is that there’s a lack of evidence that he isn’t ready, as we have really no idea how he looked in Schaumburg last year other than internal team statements that they liked what he was doing. 

He'd have to hit like 280/330/470 to be about a 1 WAR backup DH/1B.  You can probably get similar from Collins or Yermin.  There is zero reason to break camp with Vaughn up.  At absolute best he comes up after super 2 is over.  The Sox aren't going to add him to the 40 man before then.  

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7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Maybe if I was 21 like in 2005 when I created my account ;-).  I'm too old for that shit man.  And June 15th is moving the goalpost already in your favor.  We'll just have to wait and see.

You said late June?  I gave you an extra 2 weeks lol.. ah okay.. so you don't wanna put your money where your mouth is?  That's cool.

Edited by Squirmin' for Yermin

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1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

You said late June?  I gave you an extra 2 weeks lol.. ah okay.. so you don't wanna put your money where your mouth is?  That's cool.

Not this again.

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Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

You said late June?  I gave you an extra 2 weeks lol.. ah okay.. so you don't wanna put your money where your mouth is?  That's cool.

I don't go all in on bets I have no control over.  For all I know the three guys in front of him ostensibly on the depth chart all are hurt by the 3rd week of May.   Anyways, I'm moving on, this topic has already been beaten into a dead horse and we are still 5 weeks away from breaking camp.

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22 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I guess as usual you have no real argument to make so you do your usual guffaw defense mechanism.  Andrew Vaughn is going to be in Birmingham until at least late June.  There isn't a shred of evidence he's ready to contribute to a contending MLB team.

You're one of very few people saying Vaughn *should* start in the minors, and I agree with that completely. Even if Vaughn hit like Barry Bonds at the alternate site, that's not a substitute for upper minors PA's. He likely saw all of those pitchers dozens of times and since they're all teammates the level of competition there won't be something that resembles what you'd find in the minors. There is no downside whatsoever to letting Vaughn accumulate a few hundred PA's in AA or AAA and then if he's hitting like Eloy in 2018 go ahead and call him up. Just make sure he's actually ready for the majors and have that be based on something that isn't Spring Training or how he does against Matthew Thompson/Kodi Medeiros after facing them for the 20th time.

But I don't think that's what'll actually happen. There is way too much smoke about Vaughn either starting in the majors or being up in April which makes me think the plan is for him to be in the every day lineup by ~April 20th.

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Except everything from last year we didn’t see...

We heard Madrigal wasn’t close to ready after similar struggles his draft year.  Why would Vaughn, arguably a more polished hitter, not be capable of following the same timeline of 1 1/2 seasons before recall?

Vaughn expects to succeed and is ready to. No sliding injuries please.

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2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He'd have to hit like 280/330/470 to be about a 1 WAR backup DH/1B.  You can probably get similar from Collins or Yermin.  There is zero reason to break camp with Vaughn up.  At absolute best he comes up after super 2 is over.  The Sox aren't going to add him to the 40 man before then.  

You think an .800 ops from Collins is ‘probable’?? Perhaps not out of the question but from what we’ve seen so far ‘unlikely’ seems more fitting

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4 minutes ago, Vulture said:

You think an .800 ops from Collins is ‘probable’?? Perhaps not out of the question but from what we’ve seen so far ‘unlikely’ seems more fitting

I don't think any of them will put up an OPS around 800.  That was the slash line needed to be a 1 WAR backup.  Frankly I'd expect all of them closer to 700, which is my point. Why start Vaughn's clock to get him 10 PA a week when you have similar production already on the 40 man?

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2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I don't think any of them will put up an OPS around 800.  That was the slash line needed to be a 1 WAR backup.  Frankly I'd expect all of them closer to 700, which is my point. Why start Vaughn's clock to get him 10 PA a week when you have similar production already on the 40 man?

10 PA week? Who's he sitting for?

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1 minute ago, manbearpuig said:

10 PA week? Who's he sitting for?

Oh I don't know, half a dozen DH types already on the 40 man?

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18 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Oh I don't know, half a dozen DH types already on the 40 man?

Lmao when he comes up he will be in every day. The fact they didn't sign a DH is pretty telling he will be up quick.

Edited by manbearpuig
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On 8/19/2020 at 10:38 PM, joesaiditstrue said:

been saying this for a little while, Vaughn wont play a single game for the sox, bookmark this 

This seems like an appropriate thread to pull out a post from 6 months ago. @joesaiditstrue told us to bookmark his post, so I did. That prediction is not looking so good right now.

Edited by SoxBlanco

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1 hour ago, SoxBlanco said:

This seems like an appropriate thread to pull out a post from 6 months ago. @joesaiditstrue told us to bookmark his post, so I did. That prediction is not looking so good right now.

hey, it isn't wrong yet!

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18 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Not to mention Erik Johnson was the "well-known" part of that deal on the day it was made, surrendering TWO players to save money on Shields' deal instead of keeping their own talent in-house...when Fowler was desperate (this was put into the press quite openly, not an industry secret) to get Shields off the team as quickly as possible during that time span.

That's actually a good point that I often forget -- the Shields deal was, at its core, a salary dump for SD. Therefore, he was presumably available for JUST the full contract. If the Sox actually believed he was good, they could have simply paid him and gave up a random 27 year old in AAA or whatever -- meaning they either (A) didn't ever believe he was the "ace" that they pretended to believe he was, and STILL gave up talent to get him, or (B) JR's purse strings were so tight that he wouldn't go higher than $8m (or whatever it was that they ended up paying) for a midseason trade acquisition to help put them over the top. 

Choice A suggests a poor understanding of how to build a contender, and B is more evidence that JR doesn't care about winning enough to own a team. Regardless, not only did they give up Tatis for a bad pitcher, they could have gotten the bad pitcher and KEPT Tatis by simply being willing to pay a bit more of his contract.

Okay, I'm sorry, I'm done piling on this narrative because it just depresses people, including myself. But that was a good point that I wanted to expand on.

Edited by Eminor3rd
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In the end only the coaches can decide how much last year at the alternate site replaced a year at AA or AAA. 

Obviously vaughn has only play high A ball and didn't even dominate all that much (was solid but not destroying the league) but last year just wasn't a normal year and vaughn was a polished college hitter who likely would have started at AA last year given a full milb season and it seems that the sox just assume that season happened and was successful using the impressions from the alternate site.

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