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White Sox Acquire James Shields

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 03:21 PM)
I will give the Sox credit for trying. Johnson may be a rising star but he blew chunks every time we brought him up for a spot start. I'm sure Tatis will turn into a star like Trayce now, but that's a different topic.

I'm sure Jim Leyland would love to try to win a lousy division title with a big three of Sale, Q and Shields with Rodon by all accounts a nice No. 4. Still have one hack at No. 5.

But my point is, I may happen to think our everyday lineup is putrid, but we do have "name" everyday players in Melky, Abreu, Lawrie Jackson and a nice prospect in Eaton.

My point is ... the blame now shifts to Robin more than the front office. Can't Robin win a measly division title with Sale, Q and Shields for gosh sakes??

 

p.s. He'll probably opt out after this season if he has any success. If he blows chunks he'll obviously stay.

 

Tatis is 17. Nothing is a certainty with him at this point.

 

Also, for the opt out to make sense, Shields needs to convince someone else to give him >$21 million the next two years. Not going to happen.

 

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I had the pleasure of being in attendance for his start against the Red Sox this year.

 

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 03:34 PM)
...if EJ does end up having some success there just remember that it wasn't going to happen here.

 

 

Agreed. EJ might have eventually turned into something here, but I think it would have necessitated about a year of being a regular part of the rotation up with the big club- and that in turn would have to have been part of a full rebuild. Since that isn't what they're doing, I'm fine with his inclusion even if he puts it together.

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Kudos to Dave for calling this. I thought it was BS when the rumor surfaced but I was wrong.

 

Though I didn't want to trade for Shields I'm not happy or angry about this trade, just going to wait and see how Shields pitches.

 

Sucks losing a young SS prospect in Tatis but I won't miss the 4A pitcher EJ.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:26 PM)
He's doom and gloom on the Sox. The Padres were the opposing force against the Sox here so naturally Balta is going to support them. Your take is strong and without holes, but when I have posters messaging me with the "Balta would come back at this time in the Sox season" and "Of course Balta hates the trade" I feel the I have to say something. I wasn't going to nitpick through his argument, but his shtick is annoying people to a point where they come to me to complain or poke fun at it.

Please tell them to say something to me then.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 05:18 PM)
I think it's a good trade in terms of resources spent to acquire innings pitched. Just feels though like the boat is already sinking and those holes need to be plugged ASAP

 

We're plugging the wrong holes. We haven't been winning because of the bullpen and the inconsistent offense recently. Not because of our starting pitching.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:31 PM)
No one needs to have any exchange with you to learn your opinion on anything.

And this is one of the two reasons I haven't been posting. Because if you're not a fan of this team, its now personal for too many people.

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QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 10:25 PM)
Tatis is 17. Nothing is a certainty with him at this point.

 

Also, for the opt out to make sense, Shields needs to convince someone else to give him >$21 million the next two years. Not going to happen.

Cmon Stryker, if he pitches well he'll get a better deal than that in this day and age. Now if he pitches s***ty, of course he'll keep the cash via the current deal. He's a great clubhouse guy obviously coming into a horrible clubhouse environment. Hope James takes over the clubhouse! Prolly won't happen. If Paulie couldn't do it nobody can.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 10:33 PM)
And this is one of the two reasons I haven't been posting. Because if you're not a fan of this team, its now personal for too many people.

Keep posting. Some of us respect you and your posts. Right now this team blows and has allowed a manager to keep managing thru a fireable offense. It's ok to tell it like it is.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 10:33 PM)
This is valid but I think Hahn may just being opportunistic here. Even if Shields gets wacked around a bit at the cell, paying him 9M a year to make 32 starts is still worth it here. Can't have enough pitching.

 

I don't even want to think this way, but Shields is 10x more valuable the trade asset that he was with the Padres now that they're paying him. Sox could lose the next 20 games and turn around and trade him for a package better than EJ/Tatis Jr.

Man if they do that the next team that gets Shields will get the Sox to pay some money and they'll really be getting him for cheap.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 05:33 PM)
This is valid but I think Hahn may just being opportunistic here. Even if Shields gets wacked around a bit at the cell, paying him 9M a year to make 32 starts is still worth it here. Can't have enough pitching.

 

I don't even want to think this way, but Shields is 10x more valuable the trade asset that he was with the Padres now that they're paying him. Sox could lose the next 20 games and turn around and trade him for a package better than EJ/Tatis Jr.

 

Yeah, the projection systems hate Latos and Gonzalez. They probably don't like Shields either, but at least we can expect a quality start from him most of the time. You never know with Latos and Gonzalez.

 

This seems like a deal for the long term more than anything. For this year, we have to improve the offense if we want to compete.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 10:37 PM)
I just want objectivity. Maybe your background doesn't require it, but to be a good, contributing member of a sports forum, you should have a hint of it. Especially someone as intelligent as yourself.

 

You stopped posting objective opinions years ago. Now you nag narratives.

It's hard to be objective when the team is everybody's patsy in its own division. Until the Sox reallize you have to beef up the scouting department and do EVERYTHING you can to win division games, it will SUCK. Balta is realistic. The current setup sucks. Horrible manager and horrible owner and owner puppet in KW. Verdict still out on Hahn.

Edited by greg775

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 10:38 PM)
That's not even related to his argument but I am sure Balta appreciates you bolstering his argument. You've done him a good service.

 

Everything aside, I've always enjoyed your posting greg.

Thanks Rabbit. I'm a zealous fan and I get tired of the losing. I was calm this year til the way the team reacted to the Texas meltdown game. It may have been just coincidence they started to slide, but I sensed mental midget-dom taking over again.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:37 PM)
I just want objectivity. Maybe your background doesn't require it, but to be a good, contributing member of a sports forum, you should have a hint of it. Especially someone as intelligent as yourself.

 

You stopped posting objective opinions years ago. Now you nag narratives.

The only post I made on this trade from a White Sox perspective is to note that his fastball is down 2.4 mph from his last year with the Royals and at about the worst level of his career.

 

Maybe there's a reason why. Maybe it's something other than him getting old and that is something that gets better for him as the season goes on? But for the Padres, this is exactly what they should be doing. Save some money, get players who have talent but need work. This could be the best deal ever for the White Sox, he could snap into a great season and lead them to the playoffs, and this would still be the kind of move the Padres should be making.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 03:33 PM)
And this is one of the two reasons I haven't been posting. Because if you're not a fan of this team, its now personal for too many people.

I would just say, "poop"... But since a single post with that single word is banished forever... I've as such expounded with futile reason and as such, justify saying... Poop.

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QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:38 PM)
It's hard to be objective when the team is everybody's patsy in its own division. Until the Sox reallize you have to beef up the scouting department and do EVERYTHING you can to win division games, it will SUCK. Balta is realistic. The current setup sucks. Horrible manager and horrible owner and owner puppet in KW. Verdict still out on Hahn.

I'm not realistic. I genuinely dislike this team. I'm waiting to see them prove me wrong. Here's another shot. I'll be the first to admit I can't stand this team. Major move here from RH, he's now spent a lot of the money he saved on LaRoche. Shields better produce.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 05:23 PM)
WTF? This makes sense for the Padres. There was no commentary whatsoever about the White Sox and whether or not this was a good deal for them in that post. I come back for one trade and that's the response I get?

 

Don't pay him no mind. I agree with what you were getting at. I think Johnson will benefit from their park big time.

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I bet soon we see Anderson up, a trade for Bruce, and another bullpen arm come in.

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 10:41 PM)
The only post I made on this trade from a White Sox perspective is to note that his fastball is down 2.4 mph from his last year with the Royals and at about the worst level of his career.

 

Maybe there's a reason why. Maybe it's something other than him getting old and that is something that gets better for him as the season goes on? But for the Padres, this is exactly what they should be doing. Save some money, get players who have talent but need work. This could be the best deal ever for the White Sox, he could snap into a great season and lead them to the playoffs, and this would still be the kind of move the Padres should be making.

Good post. Of course it's a smart deal for the Padres. Johnson's suckiness with the White Sox is hard to explain. He remains a very very good prospect. Give him 5-6 starts in a row and let's see what happens. I forget if he got several starts in a row last September or not. But I still think Johnson is a prospect. Throw in a 17 year old highly regarded shortstop? The trade totally makes sense for SD.

 

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 10:42 PM)
I'm not realistic. I genuinely dislike this team. I'm waiting to see them prove me wrong. Here's another shot. I'll be the first to admit I can't stand this team. Major move here from RH, he's now spent a lot of the money he saved on LaRoche. Shields better produce.

Cool. I am OK with any negative posts about this team. That's neat you "dislike" the squad. At this point there's a lot to hate. Horrible offense with only one power hitter in Frazier. Ridiculously bad bullpen cept for the closer. And a great starting rotation which never seems to matter. An average defense. Horrid speed on the basepaths. OK maybe not horrid but below average to average.

Edited by greg775

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 05:28 PM)
Padres fans are livid at the move. Your review is the best I've seen.

 

 

Tatis hasn't been played SS since he came to states. Media doesn't know the granular stuff.

Thanks for clarifying raBBit. Was Tatis moved to 3B?

 

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 05:41 PM)
I would just say, "poop"... But since a single post with that single word is banished forever... I've as such expounded with futile reason and as such, justify saying... Poop.

POOP!

There, I said it.

 

Is it safe to assume that Shields will make his debut Tuesday against the Nat's? Sale today, Q Sunday, day off Monday and Shields on Tuesday makes sense.

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I wish we could trade for a manager. This really does nothing for me as a fan. So we have another guy who will lose games 3-1.

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QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 03:50 PM)
assume that Shields will make his debut Tuesday against the Nat's? Sale today, Q Sunday, day off Monday and Shields on Tuesday makes sense.

Si

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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 04:42 PM)
I'm not realistic. I genuinely dislike this team. I'm waiting to see them prove me wrong. Here's another shot. I'll be the first to admit I can't stand this team. Major move here from RH, he's now spent a lot of the money he saved on LaRoche. Shields better produce.

 

Same here but its really the front office I can't stand. Sox Talk is the only thing keeping me interested.

Edited by kitekrazy

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Realisticlly - there's no way to like this trade for this year unless we also complete more trades. There is also little evidence to support the idea that we are not making more trades.

 

By the end of July, or sooner - I fully expect this lineup or similar:

 

Eaton

Cabrera

Abreu

Frazier

Bruce

Lawrie

Jackson

Anderson

Navarro / Avila

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Same here but its really the front office I can't stand. Sox Talk is the only thing keeping me interested.

 

Ownership has killed my Sox fandom. When I was a kid, I didn't understand how poorly JR ran the franchise. Now that I'm an adult and management expert, I can no longer tolerate his incompetent and incesutuous organizational culture. The front office is simply a reflection of JR's management practices.

 

Sad, but that's how I feel.

Edited by GhostofDickeyKerr

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