greg775

Phenomenal article. It does make me feel a little better about that horrific start. But the article and the video inside the article were masterful. Hopefully he'll be a good pitcher and Rodon will be as good as he was last start. The sooner we can get rid of Shields, Holland and Pelfrey the better.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 11:28 PM) Eh they're just not good. Does lately include the 2 recent walk offs ? They're playing the same way they have all year. Bad starting pitching and always playiing catch up is difficult. Really bad baseball team. The starting rotation itself is why we're guaranteed last place. The lineup as well. If not for all the bombs (thanks baseball for juicing the ball and good job uppercutting Davidson, Abreu, Melky, Avi, et all) we'd be assured 110 losses. The lineup has been powerful enough to prevent an historically bad season. It's still gonna be very bad though. I can't believe a team can trot Holland, Pelphrey and Shields out there regularly and not lose 110 games.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 07:32 PM) I remember when Sox fans used to say that a playoff appearance was enough. Then it became a World title would be enough. Now they have to win every single year. Knowing this fan base, they would turn into the Atlanta Braves who didn't even sell out playoff games. I think Sox fans would be like Blackhawks fans. Very excited, very very excited to win it all and have three parades in a short period of time. Then be extremely disappointed but understanding after an early exit like this season. Nobody calling for coach's head or blasting anybody incessantly for the first-round loss. I think if we won all those titles we'd be good fans like Blackhawks fans. The Sox current problem is so many lousy years following the 05 title. I mean the 05 title was something everybody still appreciates, but at the same time, the team imploded so quickly and currently is so bad it's difficult to be a good fan. This team is only 7.5 games out. It wouldn't have taken much to contend. But the front office has been so bad they decided to do a slow rebuild at a bad time. Again, it's so easy to contend nowadays and this organization is so far from contention it's sickening. Cheers to 05. Yes. But fans have the right to be despondent at what happened since then.

So 100 people shot over the long 4th of July weekend in Chicago; 15 are dead. Rather than go on a rant about this (I think you all know I am capable of such a rant right now with five or more paragraphs freaking out about this), I would like to ask YOUR reaction. I am sad, first of all, and appalled, second of all and will spare you my angry rant. But cmon. This is ridiculous stuff. Cops say much of it was gang related. I don't like it; the country and world, really, think of Chicago as a horrible warzone. If you want my rant I'll come up with one, but please, what can be done about this??? Is Chicago truly done as a great city because of this bulls***? Are the gangs escalating to the point they will be running all parts of the city before long? Prayers for the deceased and their families. Shaking my head at the horror of 4th of July weekend in the great city of Chicago.

QUOTE (SonofaRoache @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 05:36 AM) Jerry would die by rage if the Sox handed the Cubs a world series. The Cubs already won one. That was the unthinkable. it doesn't matter how many they win now. Q would help them IMO get their act together. they are going to win that division. Q would be the spark they need and they could give us 3-4 GREAT prospects that help us. We give them a division title and likely repeat WS and they re-boost our team's future.

If marist and mcauley are safe, what about Bro Rice? Is it safe?

With Avi under .320 and looking like the old Avi, I bet you Hahn would trade him. The question is who wants him? Who trusts that Avi has turned a corner?

I don't really care about the upcoming 2 trades but I will say this. Robertson and Q are the keys to two teams' seasons. If the Royals acquired Robertson, they would win the WS again. Royals move their current closer to the 8th and Robertson the ninth and cover the seventh with whomever. Cubs win the WS with Q. He's a perfect fit. he'd stay in Chicago, be comfy and be perfect for that club. Neither will happen, but just saying. If we truly want to fleece somebody and get some prospects I'd trade Q to the Cubs for 4 prospects and Robertson to the ROyals for Bubba Starling and 2-3 others. Maybe Mondesi.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 04:16 AM) White Sox traded away prospect = Super Prospect White Sox acquired prospect = bust, failure, and panic. Why do you guys support this front office this much? This is about Shields and how bad he is. You trust the rebuild to guys who think Shields was a smart investment?

Just DFA Shields for gosh sakes. He's done.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 07:09 PM) This is fully and 100% wrong. Why would anybody want Melky or Frazier? Seriously. The relievers everybody's high on will not bring back much. Relievers who are not closers don't bring back much. Who is the Sox projected closer anyway once we deal David? We have to keep somebody so we'll keep Swarzik and Kahnle since they won't bring back anything of note. I don't think Jerry has bought into the losing every game thing has he?

Happy Fourth of July! Be careful with your fireworks tonight, very careful. One miscalculation could send you to the hospital. Have fun but be careful! Drink beer but if you MUST drink outside your own home, plan on Uber. One miscalculation otherwise could cause a tragedy and/or get you a DUI which in this day and age would probably ruin your life (fired at work, no car for a year). I was wondering today if this was the most unpatriotic 4th of July in a long time. Korea stuffed another missile test in our face on the eve of the holiday. Surprised they didn't wait til the 4th to do it. Russia and China want us and the Koreas to sign some de-escalation thing. There are reports the Korean missile now can reach US soil meaning you just know Trump is ready to over-react or react forcibly. Do you think today's holiday is a very sad day considering the state of our Trump hatred and the volatile situation regarding the USA and N. Korea, China and Russia? I will say, cherish Joey Chestnut today and have some fun, but has this holiday jumped the shark or temporarily been jaded because of current political climate/international conditions? The fact the two parties have never hated each other more and the fact Trump is a tweeting embarassment? HAPPY 4th!! Drink beer, wine and go watch fireworks tonight! But drive Uber and take care of your family members who need Uber.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 08:38 AM) I think I figured it out tonight. Renteria simply wants all the young players to buy into the concept of sacrificing for each other...always trying to advance the runner (Did you do your job or not?) and moving the line one batter at a time. Could be a one run lead, or 3-5 runs like tonight. Team over individual results, camaraderie, chemistry, etc. They seem to be buying into Steverson's approach now as well, they're working together instead of going up to the plate without a plan of what they're trying to accomplish like for much of the Ventura regime. Realistically, this team should be 2 games under .500, but we've been killed by our defense and all those unearned runs and mostly plays not made (double plays not finished, for example.) Going forward, that's the biggest concern organizationally (along with OBP and starting pitching development), and removing Melky Cabrera from the roster will be a first big step in the right direction. In my idea, it feels like we're trying to create a hybrid of the Cubs, Indians and Royals. Future elite pen. Check. Speed and athleticism. Check. Moncada, Robert, Adolfo, Engel, Tim Anderson, Leury, Yolmer Sanchez, Willy Garcia, Saladino, Hanson. OBP/contact...addressed last two drafts, hopefully. Defense, ummmm....not yet. Versatility...the examples are guys like Jose Ramirez, Josh Harrison, Zobrist, Baez, Whit Merrifield. The Sox players above have many of these qualities already, particularly Leury, but Moncada and Anderson should as well. (Of course, in this lively ball era, you also can't afford to carry a guy like Tilson who has no power playing 81 home games at Guaranteed Rate.) In the end, I don't think we're as far off as some here. This is a .500 team in 2018, quite easily. Get the best possible draft pick for 2018, but don't go out of the way to hold players back if they're truly ready. If for no other reason than Detroit and KC being terrible next year, and that representing nearly 40% of the schedule. They might need an anchor for their defense during this transition period. Unsurprisingly, I would pick Dyson (cheaper version) or Cain on three year deals and change the team's mindset by having an elite defender with World Series experience in CF. At any rate, by this October 1st they'll know a lot more about what they have in Engel and Leury. Maybe they logically then decide those guys are good enough to be part of the long-term plan and no further move is needed. Somehow, they also need to convince Abreu or Avi to DH. That potentially gives Asche and Delmonico a shot at first. Maybe Avi's traded? Then they eventually need to find an elite defender at catcher to back up Collins 2-3 years from now...trade deadline, someone like Severino with the Nats. Offense isn't as critical if Collins realizes his potential. 2018 LF Engel/W.Garcia/Asche CF Leury Garcia/Engel RF Willy Garcia/Asche/Hanson 3B Davidson/Y. Sanchez SS Anderson/L.Garcia 2B Moncada/Yolmer/Hanson 1B Avi Garcia/Davidson DH Abreu This would block Delmonico and Saladino, but dramatically improve the overall defense...perhaps Saladino stays and Hanson goes? You'd have three CFers in the outfield (well, Willy's pushing it). Avi's a lot more athletic than Abreu, but obviously that idea might not work. Certainly a good sized target over there, though. Caulfield I am very surprised you think a team without Q could possibly sniff .500 next year. The rotation promises to be one of the worst in Sox history and without Robertson there will be a new, likely unreliable closer. As well as defense. You just skipped over the pathetic defense. Finally in terms of your lineup, the infield defense will be one of the worst in team history of the players you listed. Also the verdict is still out on Anderson at a key position, ss. If Moncada is a sieve we are extremely weak up the middle. Your outfield is laugably bad, again one of the worstin team history with Willy, Leury and Engel. .500? What are u thinking today on the 4th? In summation, horrible rotation, horrible defense, incredibly soft hitting outfield. I'd say worse team in baseball by far unless somehow Moncada, Avi, Abreu and Anderson are all all-star hitters. Even then the pitching would doom your team to a horrific record. QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 02:59 PM) I think you're reading too much into it. He calls for bunts because he thinks that's the best way of scoring runs. He is wrong and it is something that needs to be corrected for when this team is in contention. I loved your long post but I would agree with Magee. It does appear Renteria is trying to win games and he thinks these bunts help score pivotal runs. I agree with Feeky he's wrong. Your theory doesn't seem Renteria-like as some big picture thing.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 01:59 PM) This thread is about team attendance, and therefore the spectrum of opinion can and should be expected to cover a wide range of views. From the excitement of following players this year like Avi, Jose, Yolmer, Kahnle, etc., who have given some reason to pay attention to this last place team, all the way to the frustration with an owner and his management team who have now brought us the fifth summer in a row of completely meaningless baseball in the middle of the summer. A thread like this will cover the whole gamete. To give this some further context, we the fans have not had a reason to get truly excited about a competitive White Sox team since Obama's first term, and the team has not made it to the postseason since George W.'s second term. There's your reason for the "doomsday" posts. Fix that and those posts go away, or at least decrease dramatically. I would assume it's Robertson. The ONLY two on the whole list who will be traded are Quintana and Robertson. That will pretty much assure two more major holes for next season on the team and pretty much guarantee the cellar again. It'll be the buzzkill the Sox need (sarcasm) heading into the offseason.

QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 03:33 PM) Fernando Tatis Jr. tearing it up as an 18 year in Low A ball. This trade might go down as the worst in White Sox history. 274/.362/.462 12 hrs/14 Sb WRC-131 Since April 21 .300/.391/.511 WRC-152 Scouts are raving about his elite skills and saw one person make a comp to Manny Machado. I know he was 17 years old at the time, but makes me scratch my head to why they included him in the Shields deal. What a mistake!!!!! This is appalling. The White Sox have acquired some really awful baseball players and yet everybody keeps their jobs. Somebody thought Shields could pitch and the Sox had to take over a lot of money on his contract. Very bizarre. He had given up 10 runs the start before the Sox got him and was called out by SD for his ineptitude. And we throw a good prospect in the Erik Johnson for Shields deal. Weird.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 04:21 AM) https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/9/15516278...-than-you-think Good story. Unfortunately there is going to be a terrible disaster coming soon. We are going to do something and Jong-Un will blow South Korea off the map so to speak. Then we will hit N. Korea so hard the whole Koreas will be a nuclear wasteland. At that point, we'll see how China and Russia react to our behavior. I would not want to be in S. Korea right now. Americans better be getting the hell out of there.

QUOTE (harkness @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 05:02 AM) Bud they swept us at home last week.. so not sure about that conclusion. I know. That's why I said these were two horrific teams. Hard to imagine getting swept by Oakland.

These are two very bad baseball teams. The A's may actually be worse than the Sox. I will give Renteria credit. I can't see us blowing this lead. If this was last year with Robin I definitely would be expecting us to lose. The Sox were that dysfunctional with Robin even against horrible teams.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 04:31 AM) Such an awkward play by Timmy there. Another poor decision by an infielder not knowing the runner with Yolmer rushing I was surprised Anderson didn't fumble that grounder. It looked iffy but he fielded it cleanly and if Yolmer would have just concentrated on getting the one out it would have been no problem. Now, do we win? Or does the last place team find a way to lose before a big road crowd?

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 4, 2017 -> 03:26 AM) If we're in a world where we don't trade Sale, we also don't have most of our best players this year. Don't get me wrong, I want to win, but this team is a lot further than Chris Sale away. Seeing peak Rodon is sexy, though. This is a definite bright spot in what has been a miserable couple of months. Finally a stellar performance. Forgot Rodon likes to work fast. That is huge.

Rodon pitched great. So much better than some of the hacks we throw out there like Pelphrey and Miguel and Holland. Sale, Q and a healthy Rodon woulda made a division winning rotation this year IF you throw in 2 of our prospects: the likes of Fulmer and some of the guys we got in the two trades we made.

Guys, N. Korea fired another missile -- this one too close for Japan's comfort. I ask you as citizens of the world, would you accept Trump putting a bounty on the head of Kim Jong-un? This guy won't stop and it's obvious his firing that missile today is mocking our 4th of July holiday. Will China allow us killing Jong-un and doing nothing else? Trump is a loose cannon and you can expect him to do something really significant very soon IMO. Jong-un is doing this just to prove he's a badass. We can't sit and wait around for his missiles to hit one of our allies or worse, the US Mainland or Hawaii. I told you all N. Korea will cause WWIII and may even succeed in bringing nukes into the equation. Nukes are coming if Jong-Un isn't removed from this earth. I don't think China is ready to support us fully regarding N. Korea.

I was just reading NY Magazine at the library asking folks to predict when Trump would be impeached and out of office. I was surprised only one of 10 respondees thought he'd be impeached/replaced. I liked the lead in. NY Magazine suggested that "everybody" knows he's already obstructed justice and it's just a matter of getting something to stick. I laughed at that, but I'd also agree with it. He's pretty obstructionary IMO. One guy predicted he'd have two terms then Pence would win BTW. Wild stuff.

The all-star game this season does not determine homefield advantage in the WS. I am happy about this. The All-Star game is an exhibition game in which everybody should play if possible and it definitely should take on a festive atmosphere. It was stupid to make the game "matter" by danging as something as important as homefield advantage as the prize to the winner. The way to make the guys play hard and care more is to offer $500,000 per player on the winning team and $50,000 to each player on the losing team. That IMO would be better. But at least now the game is back to being a meaningless exhibition game, which it should be IMO. Do you agree?

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 3, 2017 -> 11:20 PM) I don't think it's necessarily fair to tell the long-suffering yet faithful fans to go away and watch hockey because they are voicing their discontent with the continued failures of the organization. Better served to join the increasing echoes of those looking for a change in ownership, given how the current owner (who is the LONGEST TENURED OWNER in MLB, mind you!) is just now "beginning" to "get those two things right" you referred to. Almost 40 years at the helm and they're just now getting around to that. Unbelievable. You'd think with having the longest tenured owner that the Sox would be the model franchise by now, the one by which the others are judged, with the "White Sox Way" copied over and over and over again. Yet it's almost exactly the opposite. Excessive failure on the field year in and year out, resulting in bottom-of-the-barrel attendance and TV/radio ratings. All of this for a franchise residing in a big market. Again, unbelievable, and again, time for a new owner. This is a great post. This is what a great message board post is.